What are you talking about?
We DID maintain our LTE.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
We DID maintain our LTE.
But maintaining enough LTE to ensure that we aren't having such an insane time with True Cities?
- Location
- Canada
Would you mind telling me which ones?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Not generally, but that is probably a good idea for future reward/penalty design.
- Location
- Austria
We stuck with such margin because we had little to no chance of catching up to it.
Now that we have a non-zero chance to eat ~3-4 slots by passives alone (a hell of outlier but a possibililty if narratively there is sudden immense demand for iron) we should strive for 4-5 slots margin IMO.
"Margin big enough passives cannot possibly jump it in a single turn of going full stupid" is reasonable enough estimate I think.
Yes, division will occur as with Fuedalism & Capitalism. But you don't see us stopping the fight against them.
Its divided finely enough, that, strangely, we're not divided at all. But united in our diversity.
So long you've the right values, you're part of our religion, whatever god you worship.
And our values are the good values.
As for Sacred War, we dropped it like a hot potato a few millennium ago.
As for crusade.... I'm kinda speaking in a general sense.
For me, crusades are less a conversion war, than a war on "heathens" because they don't worship the same thing.
It's not about violence, but rather... the differentiation between religion.
I'd like Ymarn (and the other parts of the world) to have a religion based on good values, than a God.
X: Oh hey, you're charitable, but you worship another god.
Y: Eh, doesn't matter, we both practice the same values.
In case A: Monotheism
You either get
a) a fight, if X is fanatic, or
b) X: Hmm ok. Walks away.
In case B: Ymarn
X: Oh yeah, doesn't matter. They might be the same guy anyway. Important part is you're a cool guy
Y: You're cool too
They become best friends for life.
That has nothing to do with LTE. That is just our EE dipping pretty low.
By the way. If we had higher LTE, our current cities would instead be at risk if our econ went low. Osccilating True City counts is kinda the name of the game at this point.
[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn) x2
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn) x2
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
We can always just... make more kilns. We've got a lot of space there. there's no strong need to have more supply than current demand so long as we can scale said supply up quickly if demand ever increases.
4 over our econ cap is not enough. It's certainly not a crisis, but it's not a happy and secure amount.
Then say that we didn't increase our LTE to where you wanted it to be. Saying that we didn't maintain it is simply false; our LTE is if anything a bit higher then it's been in many turns.
Islam, but apparently google say that it might be a myth.
We can always make more kiln until the day we run out. There's only so many deadwood you can turn into charcoal. Jevons Paradox said that the efficiency gain made by charcoal kiln will just mean increased demand, anyway.
On the contrary, there is a strong need to have more supply than current demand, especially by a large margin if we can help it, because we know charcoal and iron demand is insatiable.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The problem with this is that it significantly increases the probability of the passive spending forests, so we use more actions on kilns on a per turn basis.
- Location
- Austria
That's still better than probability of people getting greedy and overshooting cap.
Jevon's Paradox isn't a reason to avoid improving efficiency. It's just an example of latent unmet demand, the consequences of which we'l be suffering from without realising it.
That's why I think that deliberately avoiding fulfilling our infrastructure needs is self-defeating. Doing so may have costs, but the costs of not doing so will be greater.
That's why I think that deliberately avoiding fulfilling our infrastructure needs is self-defeating. Doing so may have costs, but the costs of not doing so will be greater.
Why are people making plan based on current projected demand? That's just the minimum forest margin. That is, not somehow being screwed over by short sighted stupidity of our infrastructure policies and/or guild demand.
Forest demand will only increase in the future and we cannot use charcoals for shipbuilding or papermaking. Iron is so useful that it will call for more and more charcoal to be used, because you can never have enough iron.
I want 2x-3x margin of forests. But this is difficult to achieve given competing priorities.
Forest demand will only increase in the future and we cannot use charcoals for shipbuilding or papermaking. Iron is so useful that it will call for more and more charcoal to be used, because you can never have enough iron.
I want 2x-3x margin of forests. But this is difficult to achieve given competing priorities.
@Academia Nut
Two questions.
First. With city support policy and lvl2 Ironworks, we get -1 tech/turn. Does this get counted separately or get grouped with our current -1 income? I.e. do we get that tech refunded?
Second. Does Ironworks Lvl2 increase the tech cost of Expand Economy?
Two questions.
First. With city support policy and lvl2 Ironworks, we get -1 tech/turn. Does this get counted separately or get grouped with our current -1 income? I.e. do we get that tech refunded?
Second. Does Ironworks Lvl2 increase the tech cost of Expand Economy?
No, I am not suggesting we avoid improving efficiency. That would be stupid. Efficiency improvement allows for more economic growth, and buy time for our forests to grow.
But it is not a substitute for actually growing forests. I want forest policies to be at least equal to a main kiln action every turn, but that isn't simply going to happen, because we would have trouble expanding LTE as we are now.
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A thought about stats.
A couple of turns ago, our largest stat crunch was in Econ. Nearly all of our actions take Econ, and we had negative Econ income with no good way to to make up the shortfall. This created problems, forcing us to make decisions between highly useful actions, and at one time actually driving us to starvation.
More recently, Econ became somewhat less of a concern, but suddenly Wealth became a serious problem. A lot of our actions also require Wealth, our Wealth income had gone negative, and a lot of our Wealth-gaining actions would have drawn upon our not-fully-recovered Econ stat. As a result, we are now finding ourselves needing to spend actions and resources placating our Patricians just so they don't overdraw wealth. Troublesome.
But with Marketplaces available and our trade restored, our Wealth is looking to get less tight in a couple of turns... only for the problem to start spilling over to Tech. Expand Economy is on the verge of costing Tech, our City Support policy is about to cost tech/turn, and our new reforms are also about to add tech costs to stuff. Furthermore, while we can get Tech infusions from Support Artisans actions, that action requires Wealth, which still isn't fully recovered. Sound familiar?
The only saving grace here is that when Mysticism and Culture are full, they overflow into Tech. However the moment we burn off those stats, this safety net evaporates, and we are set on a timer before our Tech reserve runs out.
My point: we need to start keeping a close eye on those stats. We likely have a Golden Age coming up, and with it a chance to massively lower our stats. Between innovations and possibly Megaproject Tracks, we can burn through our reserves and lock up our income relatively easily. We must be vigilant that it doesn't come back to bite us.
A couple of turns ago, our largest stat crunch was in Econ. Nearly all of our actions take Econ, and we had negative Econ income with no good way to to make up the shortfall. This created problems, forcing us to make decisions between highly useful actions, and at one time actually driving us to starvation.
More recently, Econ became somewhat less of a concern, but suddenly Wealth became a serious problem. A lot of our actions also require Wealth, our Wealth income had gone negative, and a lot of our Wealth-gaining actions would have drawn upon our not-fully-recovered Econ stat. As a result, we are now finding ourselves needing to spend actions and resources placating our Patricians just so they don't overdraw wealth. Troublesome.
But with Marketplaces available and our trade restored, our Wealth is looking to get less tight in a couple of turns... only for the problem to start spilling over to Tech. Expand Economy is on the verge of costing Tech, our City Support policy is about to cost tech/turn, and our new reforms are also about to add tech costs to stuff. Furthermore, while we can get Tech infusions from Support Artisans actions, that action requires Wealth, which still isn't fully recovered. Sound familiar?
The only saving grace here is that when Mysticism and Culture are full, they overflow into Tech. However the moment we burn off those stats, this safety net evaporates, and we are set on a timer before our Tech reserve runs out.
My point: we need to start keeping a close eye on those stats. We likely have a Golden Age coming up, and with it a chance to massively lower our stats. Between innovations and possibly Megaproject Tracks, we can burn through our reserves and lock up our income relatively easily. We must be vigilant that it doesn't come back to bite us.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Historically running out of money to pay your armies with is a bad plan.
- Location
- Canada
The Crusades were a political move to get rid of a bunch of young men with zero prospects like our SS crisis.
Fanatics exist in every religion and as long as you keep it removed from politics and real hard power and can limit its soft power then all religion can be kept harmless hence the difference between Judaism and its Abrahamic counterparts. Also polythesitic people can be just as violent to those who don't follow the same practises. Seriously look up the amount of incidents of people being attacked in India for eating beef and other meats. Let's not get started on the militant Buddhists and their ethnic cleansing.
Ymaryn religion called for violence once our priests got enough soft power to try and get involved with politics. Even if it was to end a horrendous practise, they still called for a war to uphold and spread its values. So its a wash in the end and comes down to whether they hold hard power or sufficient soft power.
It is a myth and a movement to try and validate the Crusades. People try and conflate Arabs and Turks conquering land for the enrichment of their people as being in the name of Islam rather then just wanting lands and wealth. It's a logical fallacy that's has quite the popularity amongst certain groups of people.
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Buy TIME. Econ cost is secondary to that because the sooner the Guilds pick up a new quest the sooner we get a burden.
Hence nominally(i.e. mainly in name).
Also Buddhism claims god-like entities do exist(which look awfully similar to Hinduism's but they do share origin areas), but are ultimately not relevant.
Anyways, the HK are not suffering a plague of monotheism.
They believe other gods exist, they just believe there is a definite and significant pantheon head that should be reflected on the secular level.
We dodged this particular event previously by shutting down religion as kingmakers. They advise, but they aren't supposed to call the shots except as yet another voting elector.
We do actually get something AN didn't mention: Faction Power.
Factions you do quests for in rapid succession rises in importance and offers more quests.
Part of the current problem is we're a little TOO happy with finishing the Guild quests after all, so after finishing one expensive guild quest we get another, we rush it and finish that early, getting more...
Under the current system it is more optimal to drag quests out until their last turn to meet them.
And also a somewhat mixed bag there because Islam didn't really HAVE the same kind of central religious authority, or much in the way of restrictions of priests being unable to hold political office. Thus the Prophet himself and his children were heavily involved in administration and warfare, which probably got interpreted all kinds of ways.
Our own religious model is most similar to the Taoists, where they had great influence in court, but always in an advisory role and really would prefer to get back to their alchemy and stargazing(hint hint, o Emperor, bigger observatory, more expensive reagents)
Delay one turn, get it on schedule the next turn regardless. Have a 1 turn breather from Guild demands.
Rushing quests is partly how we got here. Our quests like us to do things that make cities happen.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's not regardless, though, because there's a small chance we won't be able to do it the next turn for whatever reason. If it weren't so outlandish a reward, I'd certainly agree.