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Paths of Civilization

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Right now we have 18 infrastructure that we desperately want done: 6 for the Ironworks lvl2 and 12 for the Marketplace quest (3+6 for the lvl2, 3 for the 2nd lvl1). If we stay with 5 progress we won't be able to get these done in time without paying for them with both actions and stats. If we upgrade to 7 it should be automatically completed without us needing to worry about it.

@Academia Nut
I highly recommend you standardize the Passive Policy setup- you said
Academia Nut said:
If you already have them, no. If you want multiple copies for this vote, yes.
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but the listing includes the current x# count that we have. This is leading to mass confusion in the vote.
 
[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)

[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
Re: The patrician quest
We could support the patrician faction, which will give us another turn to complete their quest. Somewhat inefficient, but probably better than letting them hijack our actions.
 
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[X] [Art] The entire half-exile practice should be reviewed (-1 Stability, ???)

[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
 
Rakuhn said:
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1

Re: The patrician quest
We could support the patrician faction, which will give us another turn to complete their quest. Somewhat inefficient, but probably better than letting them hijack our actions.
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I would assume they are going to be dicks and do it anyway. I mean assuming otherwise is likely to just bite us.
 
What to do about dirty artisans and half-exiles?
[X] [Art] The entire half-exile practice should be reviewed (-1 Stability, ???)

[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)

[X] [HK] Offer to send military aid
-[X] [HK] Mass Levy
Oh good, Monotheists.
 
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Abby Normal said:
AN updated the civ sheet after i first looked, and ouch! Another merc company badly injured... down 1 loyalty, 2 effectiveness.
Not sure yet on other options, but i've been specifically pushing for 4 policies to fit in what i thought was 2 policies, so hell yeah =D

[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)

Reasoning: AN has very pointedly hinted that the narrative effects behind the stat gen policies are super good and we're doing ourselves a disfavor by ignoring them as "inefficient". Of them, diplomacy and skullduggery have the best narratives, basically saying that our gov has minor efforts going on in the background dedicated to diplomacy and intrigue, which should help keep us much more informed about issues and opportunities both internal and external. Vassal support is due to having 2 colonies at low loyalty, and city support is due to having -5 net econ a turn right now.
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What if instead of Skullduggery, we did a second Vassal Support, and let Redshore handle Skullduggery for now? One vassal support won't be enough to handle Western Wall and Greenshore, and I think we're going to be rather busy with faction quests for a bit.

Kiba said:
All factions are dick at one time or another. We shouldn't favor any of them over the others.
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I don't think they're all dicks to the same degree, though. I think that some compositions of faction strengths are better for our goals than others. Guilds being high is bad, Priests being low is bad, Urban Poor being low is bad, Patricians being high is dangerous, Yeomen being high is dangerous, etc.
 
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notgreat said:
If we stay with 5 progress we won't be able to get these done in time without paying for them with both actions and stats.
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And if we increase the number of infrastructure policies, we probably won't get them done because we'll blow up.

AN's not going to have an option that's exponentially better than anything else in this quest; if you think you've found one, you're missing something.
 
We have a military reformer and no one wants to pick armament policy? We need warships, Patricians are going to hijack us for more cavarly, HK are on the verge of becoming a fanatical theocracy and the Mountain Horse are about to initiate a trade war on us. We need to invest in our armies and defences everyone.
 
[x] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)

[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than fullsubordinates)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increasesLoyalty while active at less than fullsubordinates) x2
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)

[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
 
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[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1
[X] [Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns) x1
[X] [Policy] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Gold only
[X] [HK] Offer to send military aid
-[X] [HK] Offensive Policy

@Academia Nut Is it possible for us to rent the Highland Kingdom our Mercs and go in and personally offer military support? Also, when do our Passive Income policies pay out? During mid-turn?
 
BungieONI said:
We have last update.
That income is for next mid turn, after the main turn actions the Patricians will hijack.
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Ah hell, is that when income happens? Between the main and its mid?
Rakuhn said:
Why do you think that Redshore is going to consistently being doing Skullduggery? They've done it all of once, and ai-policies tend to change every turn.
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it was effective, I'm hopeful, and I'm not sure we can afford the slot even if they aren't.
 
Candesce said:
And if we increase the number of infrastructure policies, we probably won't get them done because we'll blow up.
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Dude what?

The policies are going to do the following:
1) Complete the Ironworks quest
2) Complete the Market quest
3) Maybe get some baths in Redshore

I mean, if we want to waste actions and stats actually building infrastructure like we did last turn we can do that instead, but we've boosted our Infrastructure passive policies massively due to the way we've structured The Law. It'd be stupid not to get at least a 3rd. Getting a 4th has a chance of problems like 6 turns down the line and going above that is going to be wasteful, but there's basically no way we'll blow up from simply putting our Infrastructure passives back where they were pre-plague.
 
Actually... @Academia Nut how likely is it the guild will spend their faction power to (attempt to) stop the patrician's action hijacking, if said hijacking would take us to negative wealth temporarily?

George said:
What if instead of Skullduggery, we did a second Vassal Support, and let Redshore handle Skullduggery for now? One vassal support won't be enough to handle Western Wall and Greenshore, and I think we're going to be rather busy with faction quests for a bit.
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Just to clarify, this is a second vassal support; we already have one running. Also, redshore wont necessarily be running skullduggery, honestly they'll probably run infrastructure no matter how much we run ourselves, since they now have a bunch of lv 2 stuff to build. They chose it last turn, but they probably wont next turn.
 
[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)

[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)

[X] [HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X] [HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
 
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SpeckofStardust said:
Which is solved with the currently winning vote.
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It patches over a building in shitty condition with shiny new facades, while not actually a dressing the core issues, being that the half-exile establishment is outdated and horribly corrupted from original intentions. It's a system of exploitation that acts like a tumor on our society. The winning vote will likely just make the problem worse by further disenfranchising the half-exiles.
 
Abby Normal said:
Actually... @Academia Nut how likely is it the guild will spend their faction power to (attempt to) stop the patrician's action hijacking, if said hijacking would take us to negative wealth temporarily?


Just to clarify, this is a second vassal support; we already have one running. Also, redshore wont necessarily be running skullduggery, honestly they'll probably run infrastructure no matter how much we run ourselves, since they now have a bunch of lv 2 stuff to build. They chose it last turn, but they probably wont next turn.
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Alright, 3 does still sound good to me, but the argument is certainly weaker.
 
Sivantic said:
Look at the narrative. This is not about removing half-exiles it is removing the stigma against them because of their work.
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A bit light on the focus, and i'm not too keen on opening a can of worm. Rather let things boil over before looking at it now. :V
Besides, stigma will exist but it's focused at the bottom of the society at this point; so :turian:no problem:turian:.
 
What to do about dirty artisans and half-exiles?
[X] [Art] The entire half-exile practice should be reviewed (-1 Stability, ???)

[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns) x1
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2

[X] [HK] Offer to send military aid
-[X] [HK] Mass Levy
 
George said:
Ah hell, is that when income happens? Between the main and its mid?

it was effective, I'm hopeful, and I'm not sure we can afford the slot even if they aren't.
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Yep.

I made this handy little page here which is about the best we can figure, as verified by at least me and PrimalShadow.

Income/Expense Timing.

[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [Policy] Skullduggery (+1 Intrigue/turn, -2 Diplo)
[X] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)

[X] [Art] Sanitation is too important not to entrust to experts! (Several actions gain or increase their Tech costs, +1 Urban Poor power, ???)
[X] [Art] The entire half-exile practice should be reviewed (-1 Stability, ???)

[X][HK] Offer to let them buy the Banner Company contracts
-[X][HK] Show goodwill (Pay upkeep costs yourself but gain Diplomacy instead for duration of hire)
 
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