Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Austria
That's a pittqnce compared to our typical expenses...wait, do you mean in total or per turn?
Ok, thanks.
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
Also,
> concept of divisions of powers
Holy fucking shit we need a social value slot just for this concept, and not only for mechanical effects.
So I don't have a lot of time for analysis right now, so I'll just ask the thread. What's the likelihood that we'll need the stability from choosing the Gymnasium option?
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
This is my current thought process.
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
This is my current thought process.
- Food because Food. Not married to it.
- Increased Professionalism has a chance to solve the SSC due to Martial < 5 and Cent > 5 next turn. May gain a Legacy.
- Additionally, I feel their may be some narrative bonus to combining with taking the Straits. Plenty of glory and military opportunities at home, etc.
- Infrastructure is my go to. Not married to it. May go for vassal support if we need the after taking straits + Merc Company. Analysis for someone else.
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[X] [SR] Rotate governors (All periphery states with at least one province cost -1 Diplo/turn each turn, have Min. 2 Loyalty)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Agriculture (+1 Econ and -1 Econ Expansion/turn)
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Agriculture (+1 Econ and -1 Econ Expansion/turn)
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Do people realize that we have to HOLD the Trelli Straits to get anything out of it? Conquering is one thing, actually holding the place and maintaining it is another entirely.
It's very likely that it's going to turn into another quagmire, seeing as other powers want the straits and there is still that Pirate Hero around!
It's very likely that it's going to turn into another quagmire, seeing as other powers want the straits and there is still that Pirate Hero around!
- Location
- a
Chill will you, you posted already 3 times in a row.
That said, this is a penultimate moment to take the straits
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
I'm running full paranoia with astro roll, and non-standard dice rolls would fit the nonsensical nature of such predictions. I agree war of any kind is foolish now.
Does any of our current values have synergy with this? Honor in death maybe? Fingers crossed for next GA option flood.
Division of Power sounds like it might evolve our polity into a constitutional monarchy or a republic.
[X] [Attack] Hire out mercenary company
-[X] [Attack] Both
--[X] [Attack] To Trelli
DO THE RIGHT THING. We are Ymaryn and we are better than this. Don't conquer Trelli. Do the right thing and stand with them in their time of need and fuck the traders and their greed.
[X] [Attack] Hire out mercenary company
-[X] [Attack] Both
--[X] [Attack] To Trelli
DO THE RIGHT THING. We are Ymaryn and we are better than this. Don't conquer Trelli. Do the right thing and stand with them in their time of need and fuck the traders and their greed.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
They can't actually pay us, so I don't think that's an option? I suspect if we pick "hire out the mercenaries to the Trelli" we'll just end up with the equivalent of a shrug because they ran out of money so the mercenaries didn't want to fight for them and headed back home. Or, worst case scenario, they decide to take the city for themselves.
Actually, the only other power we know of that wants to hold the straits would be Freehills, and our relations with them are pretty good. The Khemetri can't project force far enough, neither can the Metal Tribes or Western Ymaryn. There could be other powers in the Mediterranean who want the opportunity, of course, but there might also not be.
Furthermore, we're talking some of the most defensible geography on the planet, that will be supplied by sea and by land from colonies all along the coast of the Black Sea. If we can take Trelli, dislodging us from it would be incredibly difficult.
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- Location
- Somewhere
WE have to hold it in one turn. If we don't try then our new trait will drop stability down for us when the civil war occurs.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I don't understand this thread's apparant obsessing with controlling the Turkish Straits.
We just got a new trait that negates exactly that.
Failing the Trader Quest by not taking the Trelli Straits WILL NOT CAUSE US TO ENTER A CIVIL WAR.
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Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Actually, it definitely is an option:
They don't have to pay us this turn. We are already paying our mercenaries.
- Location
- Leeds
Are you sure thats not just a random roll in order to generate the prediction?
As in a roll of 1 leads to a prediction of x.
A roll of 2 provides y.
And so on.
Magic doesn't exist (probably) and AN doesn't really give hints. He's more of the 'enough rope to hang yourself' variety.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah, and I'm saying that looks like a trap option to me. Seriously they just ran out of money this midturn, either that's us paying our mercenaries to head there (so "hire out" is a misnomer) or we're going to end up with very irritated mercenaries who've been stiffed their promised pay, which is something I'd like not to have while we're presently in the middle of reform.
Legion0047
Retired Shadowrunner.
- Location
- Austria
- Pronouns
- God Emperor
An rated insightfull.
that was a crit
that was a crit
- Location
- Somewhere
Edit: I get it now, I just wish there was an active sign in the trait's status.
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That's why you ask questions.
@Academia Nut
Since the Trelli have no money, are we paying our mercenaries out of our own pocket? Will the Trelli owe us for services rendered?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
That would be more reason to not follow the prediction.
And in fact we know that Astrological rolls are d100, seeing as AN had outright stated that we rolled a Nat 100 for the Meteor Txolla event. Which isn't possible unless the die roll is on a d100.
First of all, something I didn't notice on the first pass through: WE'RE NOT GETTING MINIMUM CENTRALIZATION FROM AN ENFORCE JUSTICE.
This is unprecedented. Not that major, but it is important to note that it can actually happen despite all the previous attempts.
Anyway, here's my provincial vote since I kinda need to sleep sadly.
[X][SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
SR: I'm not sure on this, but lots of extra econ is always nice and the diplo cost of rotating admin is scary.
HS: Getting at least +2 Econ/turn income and likely more with PSN and other things makes this kinda a no-brainer, particularly since it might help us figure out how to get the all-powerful level 2 ironworks which, y'know, FREE MEGAPROJECT.
Attack: I've been a strong proponent of attacking Trelli for a while. With our unexpected Martial 11 (seriously how did we get that) I think we have a reasonable chance there. And even if not, we need to dump the Martial anyway. This is very much a risk, but one that I believe is worth it. I will admit I am somewhat surprised at the number of proponents for it, as it is going to push us right up to the breaking point. Unquestionably. DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS IF YOU AREN'T WILLING TO GAMBLE A LOT ON IT.
I'm willing to take the risk, but it seems like a lot of voters here think it will be easy. It won't. I personally think it's worth it and the Astrological prediction seems to be in favor... but that isn't a safe bet.
Policy: Infrastructure is incredibly powerful and efficient, and we really do have a lot of things that we want to get done and more are being constantly added.
Forestry is unnecessary for a bit while we ramp up our Charcoal Kilns. It'll be important to get a couple more on now that we have massive iron production capabilities, but that's not a short term need.
Vassal Support would be very nice but we definitely won't be using it next turn whereas +2 progress (5 to 7) means that another Extended Project gets mostly completed. We're virtually guaranteed to get more policies next turn as cities free up, and I'm certainly in favor of adding 1 or 2 of these then.
City Support is +2 Econ/turn. With [SR] Food, that's really just not necessary anymore, especially with the extra Ironworks making us get +5 econ/action.
This is unprecedented. Not that major, but it is important to note that it can actually happen despite all the previous attempts.
Note that next turn we will recover at least 2 additional cities, and quite possibly even more.
Anyway, here's my provincial vote since I kinda need to sleep sadly.
[X][SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production further (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
[X] [Attack] Attempt to take the Trelli Strait
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
SR: I'm not sure on this, but lots of extra econ is always nice and the diplo cost of rotating admin is scary.
HS: Getting at least +2 Econ/turn income and likely more with PSN and other things makes this kinda a no-brainer, particularly since it might help us figure out how to get the all-powerful level 2 ironworks which, y'know, FREE MEGAPROJECT.
Attack: I've been a strong proponent of attacking Trelli for a while. With our unexpected Martial 11 (seriously how did we get that) I think we have a reasonable chance there. And even if not, we need to dump the Martial anyway. This is very much a risk, but one that I believe is worth it. I will admit I am somewhat surprised at the number of proponents for it, as it is going to push us right up to the breaking point. Unquestionably. DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS IF YOU AREN'T WILLING TO GAMBLE A LOT ON IT.
I'm willing to take the risk, but it seems like a lot of voters here think it will be easy. It won't. I personally think it's worth it and the Astrological prediction seems to be in favor... but that isn't a safe bet.
Policy: Infrastructure is incredibly powerful and efficient, and we really do have a lot of things that we want to get done and more are being constantly added.
Forestry is unnecessary for a bit while we ramp up our Charcoal Kilns. It'll be important to get a couple more on now that we have massive iron production capabilities, but that's not a short term need.
Vassal Support would be very nice but we definitely won't be using it next turn whereas +2 progress (5 to 7) means that another Extended Project gets mostly completed. We're virtually guaranteed to get more policies next turn as cities free up, and I'm certainly in favor of adding 1 or 2 of these then.
City Support is +2 Econ/turn. With [SR] Food, that's really just not necessary anymore, especially with the extra Ironworks making us get +5 econ/action.
The negation for Traders is currently available. Once we use it, it is unavailable until those conditions have been met.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Then why is it framed as hiring them out instead of supporting the Trelli? We have both a Hire Out and Support option for the Western Ymaryn, but no Support option for the Trelli.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh myyyy.
Uh. Well I'm pretty sure that the Second Son movement of people would be gutted if we did warriors since the numbers would be pretty heavily reduced. But that comes with its own problems.
Food would fix our Econ problems, as we'd get 6 Econ per turn. 7 if Hawks count as a "colony or vassal". @Academia Nut how much Econ per turn would we get from this? 6 or 7, since I am assuming only Landed Subordinates give this? Or is that assumption wrong?
Which basically fixes our Econ problem.
We don't have the Diplo income to sustain the cost of governors and our best action for generating Diplo is:
+3 Diplo, which is not enough income. We'd have to have an income of at least 10 (I'm not sure if Free Cities count). We'd have to devote our Main, both Guild Actions, and a Secondary to keep up.
Generally speaking I very humbly request that people take a moment to check the math of their votes so that we don't end up in a bad place.
Given that, I want governors, but I think it is too expensive and we should go with Food or Warriors. One nice thing of Warriors is that we can deal with it with Retraining actions and get:
And that is enough to keep up with the income wonderfully. Even a Secondary lets us slow it down, and with what it looks like it seems we may well need the income.
Given this I will vote for this:
[X] [SR] Food (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Econ/turn each)
[X] [SR] Warriors (Colonies and vassals transfer 1 Martial/turn each)
I think I'd prefer Food for the strategic concerns of draining warriors from the frontier, but I personally think a combo of Warriors and Retrain would lead to some cool stuff as we'd essentially have a massive engine going.
Okay BIG Shoutout, this Iron production action Is Not a Level 2 Ironworks. We do not have the prereqs for that by word of AN just a few pages ago. Definitely worth it when we get it, but does not fulfill the Guild Quest.
The big ones we want are Prototype Weapon Storage, Prototype Deployment Organization, Introduce an elite core, Increase Professionalism and I think Center Command on the Cities. This is to head off the bad parts this reform may bring in the future. Increase Professionalism especially since it can dump a huge amount of martial and AN said there was a chance it could end Second Son right now. Additionally professionalism is incredibly powerful in an army and reduces any of the silliness we are seeing now.
I think I'll go with this after checking the costs:
Found Mercenary Company - With new coinage, those who fight for less than savoury reasons can be bargained with more effectively. Paid well they can enhance your forces, or can be hired out to other groups, but beware of having them sit around without pay!
*S: -8 Martial, -1 Wealth per turn in your employ, +1 Wealth per turn if hired out to another group, or 0 Wealth per turn and adds directly to Martial score
Ok we should be okay. That boost from Guilds covers this.
[X] [HS] Increase Professionalism (Found Mercenary Company, Reforms advance)
We don't really have the actions to spare and can live with the Traders since their thing can be freely negated and is already on track to be.
Now hiring the banner out might be nice but we need to think about it, I don't particularly want to since the HK have me worried. I have also spoken as to my ideas regarding Trelli and how easy we could take it and hold it, I don't rate it worth it mostly due to Lords Loyalty meaning it becomes an action sink as we have to defend it from the surrounding bandits and pirates.
[X] [Attack] No one
[X] [Attack] Hire out mercenary company
-[X] [Attack] Both
--[X] [Attack] To Freehills
Ooooh. Nice I think this is from Blackmouth, it looks like it is a True City since it can become a Free City. Personally for Infra right now.
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
Now double check my math.
*looks it over*
Okay I think its good.
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VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
The new trait just gave a free negation for quest failure penalty in each faction. As long as we do not roll the same shitty failure penalty we will be fine. The used negation is restored after two successful quest in that faction.
- Location
- Staring into the void
@Academia Nut does "[] [SR] Rotate governors (All periphery states with at least one province cost -1 Diplo/turn each turn, have Min. 2 Loyalty)" cost 1 diplo total, or 1 per province?