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Paths of Civilization

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Sugnez said:
Manumission means the slave owners free all their slaves, I googled it. That's all I was looking for out of this, so let's get it. People are more valuable than money.
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I don't see anything in there about them forswearing slaving so I imagine they'll just take our money and get right back on that slaving train. Perhaps with a temporary production hit but not something they can't just slave take their way out of by punching that other island polity whose name escapes me in the face harder.
 
hylas240 said:
If the Khem felt so threatened by us potentially gaining the strait, then why didn't they threaten/warn us? They could've told us not to take it, or flat out threaten to aid the Trelli if we continued the war. All they did was cut diplomatic ties though.
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At this point right now the IC knowledge other nations have on intention of The People is this is a war to support slaves.

Neither KH nor Trille knows for certain what the "real" goal of those insane elfs are. Which is true as our king and government's major decisions are in the Voters' hand. A voter base that is alien and undecided.

So in order not to antagonize or set off an irrational polity, they reduced ties while maintaining close watch. KH still attends the game, but with minimal effort.

Umi-san said:
why? If we wanted to attack them we could just lug our longboats over the river. Attacking their home territory isn't worthwhile. The damage we could cause would gain us much, much more by using the same amount of force to attack the HK, attack KH colonies, etc. Land > loot.
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Have direct sea access without having to move through land makes cost of attacking or hostile actions much less. Imagine how much quicker it is for people to sail from Redshore to Trillie than into KH sea instead of Redshore - Gunvalley - walk past other people's land - into KH sea.
 
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
[X] [War] ---

Iron Age Absurdism is really tempting. Also a pretty funny name for a metal band. Sorrow seems more mentally healthy, though.

I dunno what to do about the war.
 
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[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
[X] [King] Embrace Anger
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
 
"Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves"
If I understand this correctly were handing back all the slaves we have free'd.
If only because were the ones who are offering both reparations and manumission.
 
Sugnez said:
Who cares about Trelli's land? Our boats work just fine on rivers
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Their lands guard the strait. There are no rivers to the Mediterranean.

Sugnez said:
there are other trade options.
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None that we can expand into. We already largely own the Black Sea. There are some land options, sure, but that's not where the future of trade is.

Sugnez said:
canal near Gulvalley to connect to the Khem
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Not until the Khemetri are happy with us again, which means delaying the project several turns on top of the length of the work itself. I'm not willing to have a trade disruption go on that long.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
We could have done that with any of the wars.
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stop forcing me to face the truth

VoidZero said:
Have direct sea access without having to move through land makes cost of attacking or hostile actions much less. Imagine how much quicker it is for people to sail from Redshore to Trillie than into KH sea instead of Redshore - Gunvalley - walk past other people's land - into KH sea.
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it makes attacking the KH easier
but we gain nothing from attacking non-contiguous land other than literally just the damage they suffer
which on a realpolitik perspective is worthless (unless we're forcing them to pay us to stop; which is BDSM and thus not part of the headcanon I will permit)
 
SpeckofStardust said:
"Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves"
If I understand this correctly were handing back all the slaves we have free'd.
If only because were the ones who are offering both reparations and manumission.
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I think it's more we will just buy your slaves to free them and forget about this war.

A type of face saving excise for both parties. We got our slave freeing mandate cleared and Trille got money & no more war.
 
[X] [King] Embrace Numbness
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)

If we back down now the diplomatic effects will be worse the Trelli will block our trade harder than ever before and all round bad things. Just finish the war.
 
VoidZero said:
I think it's more we will just buy your slaves to free them and forget about this war.

A type of face saving excise for both parties. We got our slave freeing mandate cleared and Trille got money & no more war.
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We also lose a stability for going under 3 wealth on top of the stability loss from withdrawing lose all our wealth as well.
 
VoidZero said:
At this point right now the IC knowledge other nations have on intention of The People is this is a war to support slaves.

Neither KH nor Trille knows for certain what the "real" goal of those insane elfs are. Which is true as our king and government's major decisions are in the Voters' hand. A voter base that is alien and undecided.

So in order not to antagonize or set off an irrational polity, they reduced ties while maintaining close watch. KH still attends the game, but with minimal effort.



Have direct sea access without having to move through land makes cost of attacking or hostile actions much less. Imagine how much quicker it is for people to sail from Redshore to Trillie than into KH sea instead of Redshore - Gunvalley - walk past other people's land - into KH sea.
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Academia Nut said:
International Games - An organized series of athletic events and mock battles to maintain fighting trim and vent the aggression of less composed warriors, this also helps foster friendly rather than destructive rivalry between major settlements and kingdoms, bringing significant glory to all. Increases Martial Tolerance by 3 for participants and by an additional 2 for the host, gives +1 Culture for every 2 True Cities within a kingdom, gives +1 Diplomacy a turn for the host for every other participant, gives a pool of Prestige equal to the number of participants that is divided among the participants each turn depending on their performance, and the host kingdom gains Culture whenever another kingdom in contact with them completes The Games megaproject. Participants: Khemetri, Trelli, Metal Workers, Swamp Folk
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Nope, they no longer participate in the games.

Honestly, if a large portion of the slaves we're helping think the whole thing is a thinly veiled land grab, then I doubt the Khemetri wouldn't think the same thing. Either way, the reasoning for the war shouldn't matter to them, as it would still result in us gaining the straits. If our positions were reversed, then we would've warned them or threatened to aid the Trelli just so they wouldn't potentially gain such an important strategic position.
 
We stuck our nose into this anthill, we can't back out now without looking like hypocrites or weak to other nations. If we suffer the consequences, than so be it. It will serve as an valuable reminder of the different perspectives on things we must consider before butting into anything. Let's not be***AMERICA YMARYN WORLD POLICE*** and try and keep our nose to ourseves unless one of our allies is threatened or our assistance is specifically requested.
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
 
hylas240 said:
Honestly, if a large portion of the slaves we're helping think the whole thing is a thinly veiled land grab, then I doubt the Khemetri wouldn't think the same thing. Either way, the reasoning for the war shouldn't matter to them, as it would still result in us gaining the straits. If our positions were reversed, then we would've warned them or threatened to aid the Trelli just so they wouldn't potentially gain such an important strategic position.
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and yet we did it for a slave-freeing reason. If we had purely land grabbed the nobles would have been like "so the king changes, but we still retain power. Yay." but we're advocating for freeing slaves which just like... rubs a lack of respect for the hierarchy in their faces.
 
Academia Nut said:
Yshuyn knew that when he had received the news he had absolutely broken down, weeping uncontrollably at the senseless brutality of it all.
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:( I feel so bad for Yshuyn, we've basically broken him with this war.
Academia Nut said:
some of the pirates were their former traders disgruntled at the loss of the Trelli market!
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:mob: I really fucking hate the traders at times.

The vote options for Yshuyn just make me even sadder :(
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
Sorrow seems like the least emotionally damaging option, if that makes sense. Madness and anger are self explanatory, numbness will likely mean he closes himself off emotionally and just exists, while absurd is probably a lesser form of madness. Sorrow, well, I guess we can all be really sad together.

[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted by the second option, but ultimately, the best option to salvage something out of this war is to keep at it. Just have to hope the option chosen for Yshuyn doesn't cause him to end the war on his own. I also really want Not!Constantinople.
 
VoidZero said:
Do we know if Saffron island is an independent state or a province?
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The Saffron Islands may have been partially colonized by the Trelli through conquest/settling regions they had depopulated via raiding. It sounds like some of the city states and confederacies are still independent, but how many and in comparison to centuries past is unknown.

Glassware said:
what caused the further stability loss this phase? Was it a Terrify backfire, or combat losses? Is this just the usual result with an unproductive war?
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It was battlefield losses.

Andres110 said:
what advice do our Spirit Chief and War Chief have for us?
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Spirit Chief: Do not let the weight of kingship weigh too heavily. We must do as the gods command... although we may have misinterpreted some things.
War Chief: The situation needs to turn around soon or we will have to withdraw the companies to recuperate, and advances have thus far been painfully slow, but headway is being made.
 
Mixing Sorrow and Keep fighting is a horrible idea that will most likely break our king with the horrors of war... Again..
Also, picking numbness is just a douche move considering he hates the numbness.
"Despite the fear within him over these fell moods, there was also something pleasant about feeling instead of the cold detachment that so easily draped itself over his shoulders the rest of the time."
 
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