[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)

[X] [King] Embrace Anger

Anger will fuel and sustain him, will make him go the extra length and tolerate no failure. Will inflame the passions and could be channelled to other persuits. Perfect for this situation.


[X] [King] Embrace the Absurd

What is absurd can either be folly or genius.
Trying The absurd can provide solutions or disaster, tis a gamble and in dice we trust.
 
Narratively, i.e., angling for the best trait evolution and lessons to be learned from this, I think that it's probably a good thing for Yshuyn to embrace his sorrow. The story of the kind-hearted king who sought to free the slaves, and was heartbroken to find it wasn't that simple, is a powerful one that will endure in the Ymaryn's collective consciousness and drive them to seek better solutions than war for the problems presented by religious and moral conflict.

A very good argument, though I am a worried about the effects that will have on the war and that it may have a similar effect to what I fear apathy will do. His despair may cause him to stop caring about the country and might even drive him to suicide! Though the lure of the long term effects his despair would have on our culture as opposed to absurdity is tempting...
 
Hmm.


Anger: He has more and more and more severe rages. What this may do to his stats I do not know, probably nothing we will like in the long run. Of note, Ashryn the Proud, had rages and then was assassinated. He is no longer remembered for that, but I have a feeling raging kings are not a good or long lived thing in our system due to the stories of Axchin the Tyrant that have survived.

Sorrow: Depression and weeping. Empathy in a lot of ways. How bad may or may not determine how much it impacts his ability to rule. All of the options do. Could go bad with decisions clouded by grief. Not healthy for him in the long run, but again none of them are.

the Absurd: Randomness and capricious. Probably very much not good. Unless this is absurdism, that may lead somewhere else. He's not as bad as Madness but He's probably not going to be king for very much longer after this.

Numbness: Less Empathetic. May or may not damage his skills while saving a part of him, though they are possibly already damaged if that is even possible. May or may not authorize really bad things for the war without his empathy.

Madness: Very very not good. He would not be very able to make decisions any more when lost in his madness. Likely to be replaced once he causes too much damage. Like Anger may lash out at his fellows.




Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn): We can afford to do this very well. It also places us in the context of our neighbors again, making this seem like more of a Landgrab to them which they can contextualize. This leads to potentially easier times with rekindling relations, if we put in effort but this is very uncertain. We are not guaranteed to win and that has consequences, including the slaves being harmed in some way. Keeps our GA unless we lose another stab.

Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???): We can just afford this I think. We will lose the Golden Age from hitting 0 Stability I think. Our Econ will be fine. Wealth will start to fill back up in following turns. However from what is going on I am not sure if we are taking in the slaves. I don't think we are since the Econ gained back is from Temp Econ recovering far as I can tell. Makes us very alien to our neighbors cementing that we are serious about this and the faith that backed it up. That labels us as dangerous. Makes diplomacy harder but not impossible given timescales. Not sure of slave reaction.

@Academia Nut are we taking in any of the slaves in the above option? And do we think we can get this option later if we keep fighting?


Withdraw (-5 Wealth, -5 Prestige, -1 Religious Authority, 4 Econ temp damage, chance of stability loss, +4-5 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???): Makes us extremely capricious looking and about as alien as in the reparations option possibly. Pretty big malus to the international diplo. We can afford it. And we may not lose our GA. What happens to the slaves is basically up to them and Trelli, probably nothing we would like.


Hmm.

A thing to consider, in any situation where the slaves are extant as a faction, there is going to be a lot of tension between them and Trelli. That could spell out problems.



[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
Depending on how bad this goes he may do extreme things to shorten his own lifespan(this is very very much speculation for the worst scenario). Much less dangerous if the war does not continue.

As a back up I will go with this as well.
[X] [King] Embrace the Absurd
I think he will still be somewhat functional with this as a lesser form of madness, and he will like have a higher chance to live to see the end of the war.

These both may also be philosphys too so I am okay with either, since I think Absurd is absurdism and Sorrow is possibly nihilism. Or something pre-dating sorrowful philosophies(which I am not very familiar with)

[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
I think this may work. It's risky. Depending on how well we do there are multiple options for how it could turn out. Slaves maybe taken in by us? Leaves us open to the HK if they want to try something, but they probably really really don't. Definitely the option that can go south the fastest, though the ways it could and the consequences are semi-predictable.

@Academia Nut, what do we know of the HK's willingness to go to war with us, given the God Fist and is our truce still in effect?


[X] [War] Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)
Ends the war I think and the GA for sure, need some answers to questions before I go for it. Sounds like this may have been unlocked by our beliefs and the Terrify. Mercs might get a bit unhappy but we can pay out of Econ and Diplo if Wealth tries to go negative. Slaves likely to exist as a faction, with tension with Trelli. Might create long term consequences and gygo.
 
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As somebody who predicted that supporting the slaves was the worst diplomatic option before, withdrawing is the worst diplomatic option now.

You know what it makes us look like? Bullies. The kind of cowardly weak bully who picks on anybody who looks weak and then runs off as soon as somebody fights back. Whereas if take the straits it then people will enjoying the benefits of an open strait and will will believe we were fighting for reasons they could understand.

[X] [King] Embrace the Absurd
[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
 
[x] [King] Embrace Sorrow
[x] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)

I could go into a rant right now.
Instead I will do even worse.
I called it.
 
are we taking in any of the slaves in the above option? And do we think we can get this option later if we keep fighting?

You're taking in slaves in pretty much all the options, it just depends on how many. Forced manumission may be an option later, depending on how the war progresses.

what do we know of the HK's willingness to go to war with us, given the God Fist and is our truce still in effect?

Their threshold for attacking has been raised significantly. They probably won't take a swing at you unless you're at below 5 Martial and have lost a Merc Company.
 
Casualties from the war so far, in chronological order:
  • Good relations with Khem
  • Amiable relations with Iron Workers
  • Amiable relations with Trelli
  • 3 diplomacy income/turn
  • 1 wealth income/turn (from pirates)
  • 1 stability
  • 4 martial worth of soldiers
  • another 1 stability
  • Yshuyn's sanity/wellbeing
But hey, lets keep going and see what happens.
 
[X] [King] Embrace Numbness
[X] [War] Withdraw (-5 Wealth, -5 Prestige, -1 Religious Authority, 4 Econ temp damage, chance of stability loss, +4-5 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)

This was a stupid war for stupid reasons, doubled down in a stupid fashion (olol Terrify), basically just as I warned and am never listened to, and we should be trying to get out as soon as possible.
 
Hm. Depending on what is meant by Absurd, since Yshuyn is probably taking a Main Theatre next turn I wonder if embracing absurdity would get us a dedicated comedy tradition? I still prefer Sorrow for the narrative implications, though.
 
Casualties from the war so far, in chronological order:
  • Good relations with Khem
  • Amiable relations with Iron Workers
  • Amiable relations with Trelli
  • 3 diplomacy income/turn
  • 1 wealth income/turn (from pirates)
  • 1 stability
  • 4 martial worth of soldiers
  • another 1 stability
  • Yshuyn's sanity/wellbeing
But hey, lets keep going and see what happens.

potential gains:
+good relations w/ saffron isles
+better relations w/ khem due to easier connectivity
+large number of diplo/turn
+much larger wealth/turn
+land
+econ
 
I don't know but this war might draw the point where the priests don't get to pressure the King to do things because of Gods... but they are the bastion against slavery at the same time.
 
Ok, have been convinced to go for Sorrow.

[X] [War] Keep fighting (2 Econ temp damage, +2 Econ next turn)
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
 
Casualties from the war so far, in chronological order:
  • Good relations with Khem
  • Amiable relations with Iron Workers
  • Amiable relations with Trelli
  • 3 diplomacy income/turn
  • 1 wealth income/turn (from pirates)
  • 1 stability
  • 4 martial worth of soldiers
  • another 1 stability
  • Yshuyn's sanity/wellbeing
But hey, lets keep going and see what happens.
Either you are advocating for us to make a decision based on sunk costs, or you are rubbing our failures in our faces.

I believe that you are far too intelligent to advocate the former, therefore I have to assume that you are doing the latter. We have been aware that this war has been going poorly for a week now. We are hyper aware of what it has cost us. This isn't helpful at this point in time.

Now, if you want to make projections on a future cost/benefit analysis, go ahead.
 
potential gains:
+good relations w/ saffron isles
+better relations w/ khem due to easier connectivity
+large number of diplo/turn
+much larger wealth/turn
+land
+econ

Why would KH want better relationship with us if in their view non-rational polity ate a trade nation and moved closer?
You also left out abnormal king as potential gain.

@Academia Nut
Do we know if Saffron island is an independent state or a province?
 
[X] [King] Embrace Sorrow
[X] [War] Offer reparations for damages and universal manumission of Trelli slaves (-15 Wealth, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, -7-8 Econ Expansion, 7 temp Econ damage, +7-8 Econ next turn, current trader quest fails, ???)
 
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