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Paths of Civilization

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8bitBob said:
Oh, one last thing that I want to open for discussion. With Personal Divinity, it seems like we're going to be able to produce tons of forests from now on (unless the options change each turn?) and we're going to spend Centralization almost as fast we can generate it. After a one turn to see another mid turn choice for it, it seems like it is in our best interest to switch our Passive Forestry (and maybe Defensive, since we get two switches per secondary) to an Infrastructure.

As I understand it, most of our concerns about True Cities have been assuaged in recent updates (more build projects, way more ways to spend Centralization), and we should have the forest generation covered from now on, so it really does seem like the time to start building.
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I'd say put the forest to defense so that we have two.

We really really(I cannot emphasize this enough) need walls wherever we don't have them, much like roads.

The reason is that as we enter "hard mode" on this quest, we can expect our enemies to get tougher. What walls let us do in this age is control the flow of enemy armies and blunt their impact. Both of these are very important for a Divine Stewards based civ like us. With large enough walls, significant and up, we can make most armies go home or stick in one place that lets our mobile forces crunch them up.

Redhill for example is not very walled, and that's our main source of iron industry and where our eventual Great Forge is going to be located. I'd like those walled up.

I'd reference past discussions on this matter but there's a lot to plow through.

I am concerned that it falls into one of those categories of things we tend to forget about or discount, like roads were a while back, which is why I am speaking so strenuously about them.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
Concho117 said:
I am obligated to report that the Yamaryn Democratic Socialist Party officially supports the Yeoman faction and will be voting for it. As stated earlier we also have a declaration of enmity with the Patricians.
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Out of curiosity, are you trying to make this "we have party blocs for people to vote by" thing into something or is it just some kind of really extended rp?
 
Candesce said:
It doesn't.

Now that the pirates are generated, the biggest source of pirates is the existing pirates.

And Enforce Justice doesn't reach them.
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The biggest source of pirates is what allowed them to generate at all. Not enough overhead and underworld elements. To even be a pirate, you need a boat. How do you get a boat? Well you either start with your own and disappear, which cannot happen if we keep a tight control of our ships, or you have someone else do it, which becomes much harder if the people you would get it from is facing heat from the government.
 
Kiba said:
How come there's no options for NOT doing any of them? Are we forced to take centralization drop?
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Abstain is treated as "no". A vote usually has to clearly dominate and overall votes in that category have to be at least 50% of total voters for it to get voted for. That's not going to happen this time since the bandwagon rolls on, but you get the idea.

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[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)

Yeah, you can have (very basic) vaccination, I guess... At least we get (very basic) astronomy out of it, hopefully without the "predicting personal future" bit of mainline astrology. I'm kind of counting on our pseudo-Scientific Method trait to take care of that.

[X] [Iron] Open up the market for the metal

Iron's pretty definitively out of the bag now, and this way we can possibly complete the Trader mission.

I have no strong feelings about the new value, so I'm not voting for it.

[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)

We're going to need forest for the glassworks. In general, we've needed more forest for a while. I'm comfortable spending this much Centralization because of the Enforce Justice action I'm also voting for.

[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

The option where we immediately meet the Yeoman demands and get +1 stability, plus the apparently levelled "Roads" action, is quite tempting, and so is Ymaryn Coast Guard, but this gives more Stability than Yeoman, and it gives Centralization, and it's directly attacking the Shadow King's operations in Redshore, and it's actually the main reason our current King was elected (I didn't vote for him, but whatever), so I guess I'm picking this. I don't know if I like the argument i.e. "King Admin will do this anyway", because this way he will do something else using his massive Admin skill. extremely stealthy immature pun is extremely stealthy
 
Concho117 said:
"Yes!"

"BungieONI has seen the light on the evils of Nobility!"

"Come BungieONI! Join us on the Red side! We have free healthcare!"

*offers hand of friendship*
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*looks at hand*

*hand is suddenly missing*

"I've not liked nobles for a long time?"

"I'm just not very vocal about it most days."

*shrug, chews hand*

Itadakimasu. *bows, walks away*
 
Guys, please don't vote for the Trelli. Centre of Trade sucked and it's our traders who have now begun arguing for slavery. The traders must not be made more important, especially if it's by getting a value from the guys dominant in slavery.
 
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
PyroTechno said:
I don't know if I like the argument i.e. "King Admin will do this anyway", because this way he will do something else using his massive Admin skill.
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Enforce Justice would indeed be a better use of his Admin skill, but upholding our values and setting a precedent for how our new value will act is more important. Systems>heroes.
 
Tally!

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3773 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Pox
[65][Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Iron
[59][Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[5][Iron] Open up the market for the metal
[1][Iron] Crack down on resale (-1 Stability)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: React
[37][React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
[19][React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)
[18][React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)
[1][React] Keep Working on the Docks (Adds another action towards the Grand Docks MP)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: PiA
[33][PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[24][PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[7][PiA] Khemetri (Probably Spiritual Value)
[5][PiA] Swamp Folk (Probably Honour Value)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: PDN
[53][PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[5][PDN] Push forward forests (Sec Expand Forests, -1 Centralization)
[1][PDN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[1][PDN] Massively push forward farms (Main Expand Econ, -2 Centralization)
Total No. of Voters: 67


*rolls Thread up into a cigarillo, lights it*

Ahhh, now that's some good shit right there.

I got no problems with this.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Out of curiosity, are you trying to make this "we have party blocs for people to vote by" thing into something or is it just some kind of really extended rp?
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Well, voting blocks or voting bandwagons have always been a thing in this quest. Veekie has actually had the biggest one until recently.
By creating semi-serious political parties we both formalize the bandwagons and make people better informed as to what that particular bandwagon represents. It also gives them clear parallels between the real life political spectrum and what the different choices in the thread represent.

It's also really funny to watch peoples reactions when you tell them you're a Feudalist/Socialist/etc.
 
Academia Nut said:
1.) Taking in refugees via CA now has an increased cost in terms of temporary econ damage and a slower payout. So for a min dip the cost would be the chance for stability, 2 temp Econ damage, and +2 Econ next phase. Other than the slower payout rate, this change can be chalked up to being able to tank the damage previously
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So yeah. Any new refugees hit us with 5 Temp Econ damage. That's going to interesting.
 
BungieONI said:
I'd say put the forest to defense so that we have two.
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Honestly, I'm not particularly against Defense. More cautious than I'd like (Infrastructure means cities, which means passives and actions for walls, etc), but it's not a bad choice. As I understand it, we should have another Passive coming up from Redshore becoming a city (unless becoming a Free City was a one off chance for now?) so one to each seems like a decent plan.
 
Candesce said:
The surplus military we're sticking into a mercenary company to form our coast guard?

Thank you for agreeing that building one needs to be our first priority, Sivantic.
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The underworld contacts that allowed to run off at all.

Surplus Military means looking for a fight. Underworld meant they directed those efforts into piracy. Also note that it takes surplus martial and negative stability to cause problems. We are at Stability 0 and with Centralization 2 we would be well defended for sudden environmental situation as well as any other problem that shows up as they usually do.

I mean, if you quit being condescending, this sort of conversation would go smoother Candesce.
 
:facepalm: I can't at the salt the last vote generated. At least I'll get a chance to vote this time.

[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably Spiritual Value)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
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Khemri can have Sacred Warding, I don't see any real reason to refuse. Iron is well and truly out so no issues with this, finished goods lets us dominate the market before anyone else gets too far along. Can't go wrong with more forests and clear the seas of pirates, which handily deals with our excess martial too.

It looks like the HK or Trelli vote will win for values, but I think the spiritual value would be of more benefit. We have different systems than the Khemri, and our priests are already worried about foreign religions making inroads due to our traits. Buff our religion, basically.

Academia Nut said:
While the priests were glaring daggers at them over the idea that maybe there were some outsiders who no one would mind being sold to the Trelli because they were bad people anyway, there was another problem with the traders.
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...Yeah, these traders can get in the sea for suggesting such a thing.:mad: We are not entering the slave trade. Not that I imagine that's stopped some of them, considering the actions they're taking with the Metal Workers. Our priests are awesome and should get more temples, with an especially grand one dedicated to the Ymaryn God of Order and Headaches, @ManusDomine.

Academia Nut said:
Wars were a stupid way to sort things out. They just made messes that poor clerks had to go and clean up afterwards.

Although, reflecting upon some of the discussions being made, he considered the right to club some of the People upside the head an option he wished he could resort to.
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Hmm...*meaningful look at thread* I wonder what this could be referring to.

Also, wars are indeed stupid, which is why I'm currently favouring a trade mission to the HK and a serious attempt to diplo the hell out of them. Probably not going to happen, though.

Noname1 said:
...Is this a thing? People RP'ing in this thread?
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I assure you, good human, that things are perfectly normal. It is just that this thread draws together a rather diverse clientele, which is a credit to the quality of the writing. From the feudalistic sheep to the vampires, wolves, bunny cats and other assorted abominations, all take part in the journey that is Paths of Civilization. Feel free to have a seat, for the fire is warm, and tell us what your views on farming and trees are. :V
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
Concho117 said:
Well, voting blocks or voting bandwagons have always been a thing in this quest. Veekie has actually had the biggest one until recently.
By creating semi-serious political parties we both formalize the bandwagons and make people better informed as to what that particular bandwagon represents. It also gives them clear parallels between the real life political spectrum and what the different choices in the thread represent.

It's also really funny to watch peoples reactions when you tell them you're a Feudalist/Socialist/etc.
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Please, don't make this thread even more salt heavy..
 
Concho117 said:
It also gives them clear parallels between the real life political spectrum and what the different choices in the thread represent.
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Given how different the iron age social and economic situation is compared to modern politics, I'd call that a bug rather than a feature. What would have happened if we'd tried to go full capitalist from the beginning, when we didn't even have money? Or given up our famine resistance by abolishing the government food administration?
 
ctulhuslp said:
Considering that Main Forest is notable enough to fuel a big mine or two sustainably, that's pretty much it.
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And they will plant it to be the very best. You will see villages competing with the next village for whose forest is prettier.
Concho117 said:
voting bandwagons have always been a thing in this quest. Veekie has actually had the biggest one until recently.
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Oi, I work hard to generate it by persuasion and (attempted) reasoning.

It'd be so much easier if all I did was wave a flag and make promises!
8bitBob said:
As I understand it, we should have another Passive coming up from Redshore becoming a city (unless becoming a Free City was a one off chance for now?) so one to each seems like a decent plan.
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Seems like a fair balance. I do still prefer more wall policies, but the Gyms and baths will be built!

Incidentally, the Gyms we refer to here are actually more similar to pokemon gyms than modern ones. Places to gather, for promising youths to be taught by seniors, for people to get swole and philosophical.
Its a proto Academy
 
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