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Paths of Civilization

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tryrar said:
Question for the thread-why so many going for Trelli values? I know that we have a hilarious number of dominant goods, but we quite frankly don't NEED a trade value to enhance them given that we already have a lot of support for trade. Why not what sounds like a cheap stability generator in the HK's trait?
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Trade values probably scale linearly in power with goods dominated. Which means a trait balanced for Trelli is busted for us. And we don't have BAD stability options anymore; secondary festival is pretty good.

That said, I'm approval voting for HK's too. I suspect it would also have good synergy with our building up.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
veekie said:
Yeomen- Objective: Obtain a new province and have 50% or greater trails coverage within 2 turns. Success: +1 Stability

...this is impossible to pass.

[] [React] Meet yeoman demands (Sec New Settlement + Sec New Roads, meets Yeoman faction demands)

Roads good, settlements not so good.
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Could you expand on your thoughts here a bit?
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)

We would share it with everyone if we could count on them to do it properly. The Khemetri should be able to do it right.

[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded

Better to be the one suppling it.
 
Actually does anybody know our current literacy percentage?

It was brought up way back in the thread and kinda petered off into nothing
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)
 
As a member of the Ymaryn Democratic Socialist Party I urge all members of the Thread to vote against Patrician interests whenever possible. Remember, the Nobility wants to restrict social mobility and is one of the most actively detrimental demographics of our society. An example of this is the pirates which came from the Noble classes.

We must do everything we can to strip them of power and influence.
 
tryrar said:
Question for the thread-why so many going for Trelli values? I know that we have a hilarious number of dominant goods, but we quite frankly don't NEED a trade value to enhance them given that we already have a lot of support for trade. Why not what sounds like a cheap stability generator in the HK's trait?
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Because i'm suspicious of HK's order trait, it sounds like it's being order above all else. The King's order, not natural order. And i view Trelli's trade trait to be a good choice for making our people more interested in the outside world, don't want to play a closed China or closed Japan.
 
@Academia Nut that's all well and good but with all the focus on incidentals like the civilization rocking plague ward you skipped the important part: what did the foreigners think of our trees?
 
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*tentatively sips his newest drink concoction*

Hmm. That was actually good for once.

Anyway! To the vote!

[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Khemetri (Probably Spiritual Value)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

Right gonna talk about these a bit, note some of these points(most really), have already been brought up.

The Pox:
  • They have the literate and mystic infrastructure to not fuck this up and Predictive Astrology can be useful because you have to track the motions of things to use it well. Also helps with general weather because more people are looking up.
  • This will make them friends for a long time to come, which was a major reason for the international games.
  • Also, it feels good to get back to giving.
Iron:
  • The cat is firmly out of the bag and not doing anything with this will hurt us.
  • Finished goods discourage local blacksmiths in foreign powers who trade their iron for us from developing forging techniques for finished iron products. Refining the ore is also discouraged unless demand spikes higher than we can meet.
  • Probably solves the trader quest, though this is uncertain.
  • Holy shit money.
PIA value:

Disclaimer: I liked none of these over much.
  • We don't need further honor values, the ones we have are sufficient and work well together. More may militarize us further in ways we find unexpected.
  • Trade values are going to shift us as more merchantile, though we are already seeing issues from that in our system so I think taking our foot off the gas on this matter is a good idea. Give us time to settle out and figure out some of the kinks.
  • I'm not sure about the HK value. It likely has positive and negative synergies with Joyous Symphony and likely acts as another Justice trait we can mix with Greater Justice. It probably has a nice stability raiser in it. This is probably my second choice.
  • The Khemetri are very spiritual and probably have several to choose from. I consider the risk of God-King shenanigans low, because our systems are so different. I will not be bummed out if this loses though since it is a gamble.

PDN:
  • Helps ease the narrative issues the priests have with the guilds by giving more room even if they are not expressed mechanically.
  • More wood so we can prepare easier for the Great Forge.
  • Makes sure we go into the Grand Docks with a surplus.
  • Might trigger innovation rolls, what with our passive being forestry? Speculation.

React:
  • This is what we elected Admin guy to do.
  • Our martial is only yellow so we can pause for a second in spawning a merc.
  • Gets us out of the Stability we are in currently and also balances with the Cent loss from Moar Forests.


As a general reaction to the Update, which I will get into more depth with in a bit, PiA has a "New CBs" thing. My complete speculation is we will have extra reasons to attack the HK come our freedom from Admin dude.
 
Hoping that Trelli value doesn't win out. Stability is something we can always utilize well, and it has a high chance of synergizing with our Collectivist traits. I imagine Trelli wouldn't be terrible, but it's hard to say what we'd really be getting out of it.
 
veekie said:
Destabilize isn't impossible, after all, Terrify largely does the same thing.
I personally doubt a Destabilize action is the cause though, if they have the agents in place to do it, they also know that the most likely outcome of a Destabilize would be our rogue warriors assaulting them anyways.
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I mean, considering the actual outcome was pirates, if it was the HK, then things worked out for them :p
veekie said:
Not new iron. It's the one we voted to "do it yourself, we're busy" previously.
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Oh, good catch!
veekie said:
Nobody can compete in it except the Trelli and they weren't invited yet. The Khemetri can't get their boats to the competition unless the Trelli open the straits.
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That was about the regular Games, not the International Games, so it would have just been us anyway--that was our people talking about how things had been going, not about what would be happening.
veekie said:
By the portage route through Gulvalley. According to AN the Trelli route is way more efficient
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True...but considering the trelli don't let us through, the portage route might as well be the only route :p
veekie said:
Not quieter. Blackmouth is our second largest trade center as the nexus for Northern traffic, so there's no surprise it's about to become a city soon.
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Where do you get that its about to become a city?
veekie said:
Probably an Extended Project. Likely one favored by our law too. A Public Bath is only behind Aqueducts in terms of community health.

Maybe we should start figuring out the extended project preferences
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I mean, we don't have much evidence yet, since so far they've gone for "biggest danger of true city without aqueduct" and "guilds pushing for major innovation, need cheap aqueduct for city within capital province"
veekie said:
Megaroads probably are pending building enough of them first. :p
We got Sacred Forest unlocked from Managing 70% of all our forests.
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Wait, we did? I was under the impression we unlocked Sacred Forest similar to how we unlocked Greater Sacred Forest, in response to climate/environmental disaster; the Blight showed up, and unlocked the megaproject to stop it.

veekie said:
...this is impossible to pass.
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No it's not? We even have finishing it right now as a choice. Judging from integration, each province adds 2 needed trails coverage. We're at 8/16 now, with the most recent trails. We're at 3/4 progress towards a province. So secondary settlement + secondary trails solves both.
veekie said:
Roads good, settlements not so good.
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How are settlements not good? It gets us another province, and then we're just one integration away from another guild action each turn. ...Unless those round up like province actions, in which case we'd get it immediately...
veekie said:
Incidentally, this might meet the Trader demands if we hit Dominant in Pilgrimage by expanding Sacred Forest.
But I think we should see if the Passive Policy takes it up.
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It wouldn't be a "new" trade good though, since we're already at leading, i think?
veekie said:
This can potentially complete the project in the mid turn.
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Hopefully; thats why i asked AN for the current progress. No response yet though :/
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
Honestly, I don't think that going for an order trait would necessarily be the best. I can see the same thing happening with that as what people speculated choosing maintaining stability in our law for its core tenets would do: that being that lesser problems that could grow into greater problems are papered over for the thought of maintaining "order" and not causing a crisis, inadvertently causing a crisis further down the line when said problems go out of control.
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It depends on the social context.
For us, Order means Symphony, of acting in concert with every other Ymaryn.
It should then likely boost coordinated efforts, and help maintain stability, while also simultaneously requiring more dedicated action towards maintaining Stability.

But the easiest thing here:
@Academia Nut
What do we know of In Service to Order?

And once we wreck the HK, it'd be gone.
Come on guys, we have a fine tradition of taking core traits from people we're about to smoosh!

Raichu1972 said:
Just as a reminder to the thread, one of the big reasons to pick the admin king and not make Redshore a Free City was to let the Admin King purge the corruption from the city.

We currently have the option to do so by having our admin King use Enforce Justice for our reaction.

here is what it does for those who may have forgotten:

* M: 1 to 2 Stability, +2-3 Centralization

With an admin King, it will likely increase our stab by 2, as well as negating the chance to get too low cent from the main expand forests.

We also now have Wildcat Prospecting permanently, since it merged with Divine Stewards, so we have a reliable cent dropper besides Distribute Land.

I think we should nip the current corruption issue in the bud at Redshore before chasing after pirates or settling new lands.
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I'd argue the pirates are the bigger problem. These are Ymaryn soldiers, armed with our gear, and tactics. When we have international delegates arriving at the Festival.

Sure, we had officially declared them open game, but the Khemetri would likely not be very happy if one of their contestants was killed by Ymaryn pirates.

The King is very likely to take Enforce Justice or Restore Order on his action, so we don't need to spur that artificially.
Sugnez said:
So I googled what predictive astrology was, because I didn't know what is was when I voted for it. This is what the Khem want to give us for Sacred Warding.

"Astrological progression is a part of what is usually called predictive astrology, the claim of astrology to predict or forecast future trends and developments. Most astrologers nowadays regard the term 'prediction' as something of a misnomer, as modern astrology does not claim to directly predict future events as such. Instead it is claimed that an astrological pattern with regard to the future can correspond with any one of a variety of possibilities. What is in fact foretold is the trend of circumstances and the nature of the individual's reaction to the situation [2]​ In other words, progressed and transiting movements of the planets indicate phases in the individual's life when the potential shown in the natal chart will be given opportunities for development, whether through favourable or unfavourable circumstances [3]​
In addition all modern astrologers stress the role of free will. It is asserted that astrology does not reveal fate or patterns which are 'written in stone', rather it reveals a person's strengths and weakness, talents and opportunities. The horoscope does not determine the future, but shows the possible paths that lie ahead so that the individual can choose between them.[4]​ Modern astrologers argue that no planetary aspect brings a fate that cannot be counteracted in some way and some benefit derived from it - what actual events happen are largely dependent upon the freedom of choice of the individual.[5]​ The role of the astrologer is to create self-knowledge and awareness of the movement of the planets and their meaning, so as to give the individual an improved ability to make reasoned and sensible life choices.[6]​ In short, modern astrologers do not generally predict actual future events, or claim that the future is mapped out and determined."

Source: Astrological progression - Wikipedia
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Uh...I don't think that's what AN meant.
It SHOULD be about predicting the future positions of the stars based on mathematics, which is what a Place to the Stars would unlock through precision tracking.
Yeangst said:
At the risk of starting the whole argument again, what are the advantages of catamarans? Genuinely curious, because I'm worried that they don't scale up much.
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Catamarans were fast as blazes and immensely stable in any weather.
Their main drawback was that they were more complex(and thus expensive in skilled manhours) to build, so they were generally used either for very small or very large vessels. They also had about 2/3 of the cargo space of a peer sized galley.
 
Considering how often we get the reaction opportunities to spend Cent for stuff we should do Cent increasing actions for all our actions.
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Trelli (Probably trade related)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Attempt to root out problems (Main Enforce Justice)

Finished goods as a new market, dominate that. Probably fulfills that trade faction mission.
Getting the Trade value for trade war CBs back is fine, I never wanted to lose it.
Forests to burn Centralization + Enforce Justice to get it back. Stability is low, we need to root out the corruption and fix this crime nonsense. We're also only at 4 Cent, why are some of you voting for -2 Cent options and not taking this? High Centralization is friggin' important now!
 
[X] [Pox] Yes (Khemetri gain knowledge of how to do the Sacred Warding, the People gain Predictive Astrology)
[X] [Iron] Allow finished goods to be traded
[X] [PiA] Highlanders (Probably In Service to Order)
[X] [PDN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [React] Reorganize army and hunt deserters (Found Mercenary Company + Sailing Mission (anti-pirate))

Letting Pirates roam around is just no.

I think this lets us get Traders quest as well
 
8bitBob said:
Hoping that Trelli value doesn't win out. Stability is something we can always utilize well, and it has a high chance of synergizing with our Collectivist traits. I imagine Trelli wouldn't be terrible, but it's hard to say what we'd really be getting out of it.
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We could really use a trade related value, actually. Sure we're dominating several trades by dint of our resources, but our society isn't really well adapted to it. That means we're likely missing out on a ton of wealth and diplomatic contacts. Frankly, in terms of social values, trade is simply underdeveloped in Ymarrin society, and hence we need to develop that aspect.
 
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