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Paths of Civilization

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DocMatoi said:
Life of Arete. Life of "fulfilling ones function." All it takes is someone deciding their function is to sit on their keister while everyone else puts in the work.
I really want to lose this trait line guys.
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BungieONI said:
Let me see if I can tackle this one.

In the Greeks excellence for the nobles meant philosophy and contemplation, because as a slave driven society they had social systems that encouraged the higher classes to not do physical labor. Arete thus meant they lazed their asses off navel gazing at the worst end of it.

In the Ymaryn excellence for the nobles means social achievement, clerical skill and business acumen. Because as a society with a semi-technical economy and highly intensive government we have an impetus to work. I would thus expect that Arete means we have nobles who do lots of accounting really damn well.


*sigh*

Okay.

Honest feelings reading this sorta reaction gets me in the bad feels more and more these days.
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That so called naval gazing and laziness was crucial to the development of arts, philosophy, ethics and general high culture.

You may hate the aristocracy, but do not deny that it was they who ushered in high culture, and the philosophical and ethical mores that were foundational to human civilisation.
 
Susano said:
[X] [Mega] Randomly upgrade an Honour Code Value
[X] [Main] International Games
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Guild] Plant Poppies
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Watch, the random upgrade will win and then it'll hit botb and we get arete anyway
 
maximillian said:
That so called naval gazing and laziness was crucial to the development of arts, philosophy, ethics and general high culture.

You may hate the aristocracy, but do not deny that it was they who ushered in high culture, and the philosophical and ethical mores that were foundational to human civilisation.
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Oh of course not, that's why I said the worst end of it. If I hated all of, which is really not true, then I'd have specified so good sheep.

DocMatoi said:
Watch, the random upgrade will win and then it'll hit botb and we get arete anyway
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*cough*

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3668 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
[1] Build Theatre [Secondary]
[1] Build Wall[Main]
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Mega
[91][Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[1][Mega] Free Main Proclaim Glory
[1][Mega] Randomly upgrade an Honour Code Value
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[80][Main] International Games
[7][Main] Expand Forests
[6][Main] New Trails
[2][Main] Proclaim Glory
[1][Main] Grand Docks [Guild]
[1][Main] [Guild] Build Glassworks
[1][Main] Great Dam
[1][Main] Plant Poppy
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[83][Secondary] New Trails
[77][Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[4][Secondary] Expand Forests
[4][Secondary] Expand Forests x2
[3][Secondary] Governor's Palace - Blackmouth
[3][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[3][Secondary] New Trails x2
[1][Secondary] Found Mercenary Company
[1][Secondary] Influence Subordinate -Txolla
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission: Khemetri
[1][Secondary] Integrate Gulvalley
[1][Secondary] Change Policy - Defense
[1][Secondary] Study Stars
[1][Secondary] Expand Forest
[1][Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
[1][Secondary] Support Artisans
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Guild
[43][Guild] Plant Poppies
[42][Guild] Grand Docks
[1][Guild] Expand Snails Cultivation
Total No. of Voters: 96


If that happens I will have to find something to do with myself because that kinda thing is just like "Do you laugh? Do you scratch your head? What...?"
 
BungieONI said:
Sup! How you been reading this glorious thread?

Thoughts on the last update?
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15 pages behind. But having fun.

Last update it looks like we got a good start on our psyker breeding program. Good, but we have to be willing to cull any with too much power. We can't afford to attract attention.

Also, loving the guild mercantile action efficiency while dreading the narrative impact of over-guilding. :D
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[X] [Main] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate - Gulvalley
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Trade
[X] [Guild] More Boats

Finally caught up from 3605 :)
 
[X] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[X] [Main] International Games
[X] [Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X] [Guild] Plant Poppies
 
BungieONI said:
Oh of course not, that's why I said the worst end of it. If I hated all of, which is really not true, then I'd have specified so good sheep.


*cough*

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3668 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
[1] Build Theatre [Secondary]
[1] Build Wall[Main]
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Mega
[91][Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[1][Mega] Free Main Proclaim Glory
[1][Mega] Randomly upgrade an Honour Code Value
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Main
[80][Main] International Games
[7][Main] Expand Forests
[6][Main] New Trails
[2][Main] Proclaim Glory
[1][Main] Grand Docks [Guild]
[1][Main] [Guild] Build Glassworks
[1][Main] Great Dam
[1][Main] Plant Poppy
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[83][Secondary] New Trails
[77][Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[4][Secondary] Expand Forests
[4][Secondary] Expand Forests x2
[3][Secondary] Governor's Palace - Blackmouth
[3][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[3][Secondary] New Trails x2
[1][Secondary] Found Mercenary Company
[1][Secondary] Influence Subordinate -Txolla
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission: Khemetri
[1][Secondary] Integrate Gulvalley
[1][Secondary] Change Policy - Defense
[1][Secondary] Study Stars
[1][Secondary] Expand Forest
[1][Secondary] Expand Snail Cultivation
[1][Secondary] Support Artisans
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Guild
[43][Guild] Plant Poppies
[42][Guild] Grand Docks
[1][Guild] Expand Snails Cultivation
Total No. of Voters: 96


If that happens I will have to find something to do with myself because that kinda thing is just like "Do you laugh? Do you scratch your head? What...?"
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More to @DocMatoi and his rather fanatical loathing of aristocracy in all it forms.
 
[x] [Mega] Upgrade Best of the Best to Life of Arete
[x] [Main] International Games
[x] [Secondary] New Trails
[x] [Secondary] Expand Forests
[x] [Guild] Plant Poppies
 
pblur said:
Also, loving the guild mercantile action efficiency while dreading the narrative impact of over-guilding. :D
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At this point I am consigned to not reading the thread for a day or two when some inevitable nebulous update drops and the discussion meltsdown and it gets locked. All because of something guilds did.
(Yes I am feeling rather cynical right now. Don't mind it.)
(My feelings on this entire matter are rather complex and hard for me to articulate coherently)
 
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I don't see why People are planting poppies. Grand Docks are almost strictly better. If it works as expected we get the same +1 stab and an amazing megaproject, and if it doesn't we get valuable intelligence on how Symphony, our most mysterious trait, works.
 
BungieONI said:
What's basically happening is that as we shift away from the subsistence day to day survival of nomads to the technical economy loss of egalitarian values was inevitable. We are basically seeing a transitory period right now with a drop in those values, which will only start to work itself out back towards egalitarian values once we hit the post industrial revolution.

Hypothetically, if we stayed the course with arete line, what I could see us ending up in the post modern era is a highly skill based society. Really the only example I have to draw from is the Life Paths of the Eldar.

Hmmm... Basically if we stay the course and put our all into technical advances we should eventually reach a point where the only things left for our people to really devote themselves too like the arete line demands will be the skilled labors. Basically highly technocratic and... hmm... I want to say Japanese honor based as that is closest to the image in my head.
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Honestly with the values we have and the ones we are getting i am pretty sure we are going to kick of the Enlightenment off a lot sonner then Rl if we don´t get our face kicked in or lose Love of Wisdom.
This will not happen* for quite some time, but at this point i am pretty sure that we will get to it before we get to the industrialisation.

Part of why i think so is that we are the regional super power with give our culture a lot of attention and makes it easier for it to spread, atleast if we try to spread it -> trade, the games, religion ...

*that is if we aren´t already in it and just don´t see it our church and goverment isn´t completly conected, we try to improve the life of the people in general, at least try to not stockpile power in the noble class and have one really adcanced goverment, only thing that we lack is the scientific method, which we could gain pretty soon ...
 
Carrnage said:
... you're really stretching to turn "being as good as you can be at what you do" into "do as ittle as possible".
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It depends on how you define good and excellence. And what society considers disdainful.

The Romans for example viewed commerce as filthy or distasteful. And so a truly good person would be one who makes wealth without engaging in unworthy practices. Thus rent became the income source of the aristocrats. And since you but collect rents on self managed properties and projects, you have nothing but free time to spend on more worthy persuits such as war, the arts, indulgence or acquiring more rent sources.

And this was true to an extent in most societies. As high culture and the arts of war were the epitome of goodness and virtue, and so the upper classes evolved into focusing purely on those aspects, and not really caring much for anything else (I am over generalising here).
Which eventually led to the popular conception of lazy nobles who do nothing but listen to music and make elaborate poetry at feasts whilst the country is gripped in crises.

Ofcourse its only after the collapse of the system and the death of nobility do the anti aristocrats appreciate how bueatifull the poetry was, how extraordinary the feast, and how serene the music.

Its even more ironic that it was the ideas and concepts written by or for the nobility, that was used to destroy them.
 
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