Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
VoidZero said:
Eating ST now puts ST resources under command of excellent martial king, genius general, and a genius something; the overall point uses are much more efficient.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And the action economy is crap since we now need to spend the actions to do everything instead of the Subordinate use its Main to fight instead -and- we're no longer shielded from random bullshit raids forcing us to do something about it.
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)

Goodness that was a wild ride.
 
Last edited:
Sugnez said:
Obviously since we've only had one genius there's no way to determine patterns yet, but this wording makes me suspicious that all Geniuses will be near useless in another stat in order to balance out Genius level abilities. As far as I can tell Yenyna's got toilet level Diplo for Mystic reasons she can't control.

After we pick our next hero, if a genius comes up it'll be interesting to see if Yenyna's situation is special or normal for her stat level.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
crap admin genius Diplomat to the TH: I'll give you 3 million cows for all of your land.
TH: I have no idea what you just said, but I agree.
The King to the Diplomat: WHAT????!!! gj but WHAT????!!!

Hangwind said:
No. We can't. I'm tired of this never happening, no matter how often we have troubles due to our spread out nation and culture. More, with the improvements to cities, I want to encourage some more of them to pop.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
cities = legit all our integration choices
tired of this never happening = dam
spread out nation = roads not integrate
culture = yeah

VoidZero said:
Effectively we will be sending war mission against aggressions anyway, so there really isn't action saving in event of an attack. And no, ST is getting too well established to a worrying degree; Economy/Industry/Faith/Martial departments are all too developed for my liking.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
we will be sending aggressions against the HK not the nomads, and the province ST will become is worth 1/2 a secondary as opposed to the main it is now
Not particularly worried about them getting developed considering we literally just had a war that bumped everyone's loyalty to 5 (except for the HH who only went to 4)
they're not going to abandon us for a good while, and we only need a little while till the heroic nomad son is dead

actually... @Academia Nut How long until the nomad son is dead?
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[x] [React] Kick Megaproject
[X] [Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
 
Last edited:
For reference.

Here are our current "common" stats:
Diplomacy 16 [+1]
Economy 12 [-2+12] {11}
Econ Expansion 10 [+2-12]
Martial 3 (+7) {7} (+1 Wealth income when Econ >= 10 from Census)
Wealth 3 [+5-2]
Culture 8
Mysticism 13 (+1) [+1]
Tech 4

Therefore, BEFORE OVERFLOW AND ACTIONS, we can assume that our stats next turn look something like this:
Diplomacy 17
Economy 22
Econ Expansion 0
Martial 10
Wealth 7
Culture 8
Mysticism 15
Tech 4

Given that the "Search the entire kingdom..." Mysticism choice is unabmigously winning and the Megaproject seems to have a solid lead in reactions, lets factor that in. Also, lets factor in having an extra two points of Population Explosion for the 7th province:
Mystic: -1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture. 1 Mysticism cost refunded next turn. 1 EE refunded.
The Games: -2 Mysticism and Culture, 2? Econ (not sure if we pay the econ immediately). 2 Mysticism cost refunded next turn. 2? EE refunded.
7th Province: +2 Econ, -2 EE
Diplomacy 17
Economy 21
Econ Expansion 1
Martial 10
Wealth 6
Culture 5
Mysticism 12 (+3)
Tech 4

I think at this stage it is unclear which of the Integrate options is winning, so I'll do both of them:
Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech)
Diplomacy 13
Economy 24
Econ Expansion 9
Martial 10
Wealth 6
Culture 8
Mysticism 14 (+3)
Tech 5

Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
Diplomacy 11
Economy 26
Econ Expansion 6
Martial 20
Wealth 6
Culture 9
Mysticism 20 (+3)
Tech 6



In both cases, Econ will overflow by >2, and our true cities will therefore restore 2 EE.

The final counts go:
Integrate Gulvalley
Diplomacy 13
Economy 17
Econ Expansion 11
Martial 10 {15}
Wealth 13
Culture 8
Mysticism 14 (+3)
Tech 5

Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
Diplomacy 11
Economy 17
Econ Expansion 8
Martial 20 {25}
Wealth 15
Culture 12
Mysticism 17 (+3)
Tech 6



Hope people find this helpful!
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Jul 30, 2017 at 11:33 PM, finished with 90304 posts and 52 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Upside to going with Gulvalley--we have the highest chance of pulling together enough EE to keep our Pop Explosion rolling for one more turn.
 
Ok, no, really. What are people's plan for dealing with Gulvalley right now if we integrate the ST? Not giving them anything to recover over a period of ten years after we just fought a war in their territory, in which we prioritized fighting the TH and HK before the Khemetri, and then befriended the Khemetri, seems like a horrible way to keep the people there happy with us.
 
Hangwind said:
Explicitly not what I'm talking about. As long as they're subordinates, they have a higher chance of breaking away than provinces especially in disasters. That's what I want to prevent.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't know how this was explicitly not what you're talking about
spread out = distance
there are no other interpretations
you could say, like, differently governed?
unconsolidated?
etc.

I don't see a disaster on the horizon unless we lose to the HK or do something that invites the nomads to raid us *coughs*

Plus, there's the 25 martial that integrating them will have us temporarily be in. Admittedly we can merc that during the next turn but we wouldn't have to if we hadn't integrated them.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)

[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
 
goddammnit I try and write an omake full of song references from Reshemtari's point of view, but See You Again came up and the whole thing became super depressing
​
 
notgreat said:
Defence isn't a bad choice, but Infrastructure is a lot more important to us right now. We've got at least a couple generations until someone decides to fight us again, and Infrastructure gives us more cities from Aqueducts (which in turn means more Passive Policies) or stat drips from Salterns and all sorts of other really nice benefits. It's also more stat-efficient in most cases.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is exactly the problem!

Passive policies are good for actions that should be done but are never quite tempting enough to take with one of our precious, limited actions during main turns. Things like Infrastructure, Defense, and Forestry. How many people promised that they were going to take Defense policy, something we've needed for a while, and are now forgetting it? If we didn't have walls in Gulvalley and Hatvalley we would've been completely, 100% fucked. We hit -1 Stability during the war. If the dice had gone against us in White Peace-ing the Highlanders, we would've been in deep trouble. If we hadn't had those walls to hold back the Not!Egyptians, we would've lost even more territory and entered the stability death spiral.

Building tall is the name of the game for us and part of that is Defense. If we don't set it now, because we'll have a century of peace, then we won't take it later, either. After all, how many times have we put it off now? Even with 3 Defense policies, it'll still take 10 Turns before we've managed to secure all of our core settlements. If we Integrate Gulvalley, then our Defense policy will immediately start working on walls on our border with the Not!Eqyptians.

We do not change passive policies so we want to set things that we know will be in use for a while. We also want to build tall and walls were literally the difference between victory and defeat during the war.

If we go for Infrastructure, then True Cities are going to start popping up everywhere like weeds. We have an enormous population that's relatively concentrated, all we need is for there to be a small nucleus for each city. This sounds like a good idea, but once we put our foot on the gas, it'll be hard to take it off. We'll need to lay the groundwork in securing our Econ Expansion or else we could easily urbanize ourselves into a crisis. Better to focus on Defense, an unqualified good, versus something that could potentially explode.

[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x2
 
[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)

[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x2
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X][React] Kick Megaproject
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)

  • Grabbing a heroic/genius artisan would make discovering steel and developing mounted ballista much easier.
  • Having the ST's warriors (who have some nice experience with nomad tactics) mingle with our new veterans would be a great boon to us. We still have the WW and HH, so it's not like we'll be undefended from the nomads should they attack us. Not to mention, Gulvalley won't be going anywhere soon.
  • Kicking the mega project makes it likely to finish by the next turn....which will give us a free action. I'd very much like it if we could snag a free Main Proclaim Glory in order to get a golden age.
  • Not strongly attached to the policies, but I do think that getting 1 policy in forestry would be very nice.
Edit: updating vote.
 
Last edited:
Lilithium said:
Welcome to historical realism, where sometimes you aren't a godlike marysue civilization. And God damn did I enjoy the fact that someone was FINALLY an actual threat to us. They were worthy. The fact that we couldn't just bum rush them was good and one of the only war sections I've seen of as exciting since the Star Axe.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not angry at them for being good, I'm disappointed in us for not being better. I know Martial isn't exactly something that we tend to focus on, but our civilization has been forged in a crucible that has shattered countless others and come out stronger for it. It was a poor showing on our part and everyone here knows it. If we had run into a civ that I genuinely felt was bigger and better than us and they'd bloodied our noses a bit I'd be cool with it. This wasn't a grand duel between equals, it was a knockdown, drag-out brawl in which we got hammered on all sides, and constantly had to fight at a disadvantage due to dice shenanigans.
 
Last edited:
If you're voting to do the Megaproject vote to Kick it, too, so that we can finish it in a turn rather than need to dedicate a Main.
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
 
hylas240 said:
Not to mention, Gulvalley won't be going anywhere soon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No, really, please, someone answer me. Why do people think it's a good idea to leave the part of our kingdom that has been utterly wrecked by this war with absolutely no support whatsoever, just so we can 'finally integrate the ST'.

I get it, it has bothered people that we've never had the time or low martial to do so, but Gulvalley was stated to be literally begging for help, and nearly everyone is ignoring that.
 
Glassware said:
You need to format it as "-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject" or it won't show up on the tally. a bunch of people are making this error due to copy/paste issues. @Academia Nut, could you fix the original?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks for the catch! I edited but I'm going to consolidate my vote below so it lookes neater.
Sivantic said:
That is only true when they are king though.

Remember that our next King is stated to be the second place heir from our last choice
[] [Heir] A strong general is needed in these times (Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Excellent Martial)

So just like we got a malus now in war, despite having an Excellent and Genius Martial Hero, we would have a malus next turn despite having a Genius Admin.

Better to have a Heroic Heir instead. That still gives us a good chance at Heroic admin without any maluses.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not quite sure I'm following. Are you saying, that by choosing Heroic Heir, it might upgrade our current Excellent Martial Heir to Heroic Admin?

Either way, I find it difficult to believe that a Genius Admin would not become our heir, eventually. I'm perfectly fine with waiting for that.

Updated my vote and switched Proclaim Glory to Upgrade. While the extra stability would be nice, it's not essential at the moment. We can manage a kick. I was tempted to change the integrate target as well, but something always comes along to push integrating the Stallion Tribes further down the list of priorities.

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
 
Tally!
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3604 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Mystic
[44][Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[3][Mystic] Get assistance from a temple (-1 Mystic)
[2][Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Hero
[21][Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[14][Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[8][Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[7][Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[4][Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Prov
[28][Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[24][Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: React
[36][React] Megaproject - The Games
-[15][React] Kick Megaproject
[11][React] Build more aqueducts (-2 & -3 Econ to complete aqueducts in Redshore and Redhills)
[4][React] Main Plant Poppies
[2][React] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Policy
[25][Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[25][Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[18][Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[7][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[6][Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[5][Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[5][Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[4][Policy] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[2][Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x2
[1][Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[1][Policy] Defence
[1][Policy] Mysticism (+1 Mysticism/turn)
[1][Policy] Patronage
[1][Policy] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Bonus
[30][Bonus] Upgrade a random value
[14][Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
[6][Bonus] Gain a random value slot
[5][Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
[2][Bonus] Free Main Proclaim Glory
Total No. of Voters: 56


So an interesting spread.

Yenyna we all basically agree on, some outliers for the most part. I haven't read everything so I don't know why.

The hero I'm a little unhappy about, but a Genius Admin who won't take over the turn as far as I can tell(need confirmation on this), is okay.
I'd like to have control so we can quickly beat the shit out of the HK when the time comes.

Gulvalley vs Stallions I don't really have an opinion on since I think we need to do both and both come with certain bonuses and maluses. I figure we will get them both done so I'm fine with either.

Games looks like the choice, which makes sense given it's shinyness. We won't be kicking it if I understand correctly, need 27 or more voters for kick. Means we will have to work on it next turn, but that's no hardship.

Infrastructure and Forestry are nice to see, not as good as replacing the forest with defense in my opinion but I'll live.

And then my two favorites for the bonus are competing. I shall feel a guilty pleasure if value upgrade wins.
 
backgroundnoise said:
I'm not angry at them for being good, I'm disappointed in us for not being better. I know Martial isn't exactly something that we tend to focus on, but our civilization has been forged in a crucible that has shattered countless others and come out stronger for it. It was a poor showing on our part and everyone here knows it. If we had run into a civ that I genuinely felt was bigger and better than us and they'd bloodied our noses a bit I'd be cool with it. This wasn't a grand duel between equals, it was a knockdown, drag-out brawl in which we got hammered on all sides, and constantly had to fight at a disadvantage due to dice shenanigans.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

And yet we won.

We didn't take clay, but we fucking broke everyone's noses and kept all of our own, and convinced a theocracy to be willing to sue for peace when their heir was the theatre commander. And as it was established here, if we didn't take peace terms, we'd have had a bitch of a time getting anything better.
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X] [Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X] [React] Kick Megaproject
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top