Please, the easy answer of 'too much money' is 'continuously go through golden ages'.

They have options that cost around 20 stats to get out of them. It's a self fixing system, basically. Whenever our stats get too high, just make sure we're capped on stability and we can fix the problem eventually.
 
Please, the easy answer of 'too much money' is 'continuously go through golden ages'.

They have options that cost around 20 stats to get out of them. It's a self fixing system, basically. Whenever our stats get too high, just make sure we're capped on stability and we can fix the problem eventually.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that with this income we will see every thing but Tech in the red.

I'm doing this right now ->
 
Please, the easy answer of 'too much money' is 'continuously go through golden ages'.

They have options that cost around 20 stats to get out of them. It's a self fixing system, basically. Whenever our stats get too high, just make sure we're capped on stability and we can fix the problem eventually.

I vaguely remember AN mentioning at some point that Golden Ages have a cooldown.
 
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
 
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
 
Current Tally:
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jul 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, finished with 83868 posts and 97 votes.
 
Breach of Rule 2
...
[] [Law] Practicality of enforcement NO!

Beaurocraty should never be encouraged to this extend. ... Or any extend, but since that's impossible, previous statement stands.
This is the kind of thing that leads to institutions demanding things from people that don't exist. If you are wondering, whether the people or the things don't exist. The answer would be yes. This institution didn't exist in the country I came from and that you are demanding it anyway, as well as putting more and more extra reminder charges, doesn't help in the slightest.
No, I have no idea who this guy, you are talking about is and he isn't living with us. Yes, I'm aware that having someone else live with me, without putting this in the papers is illegal.
No, there is no BvB to Saint Assholious XII. The BvB is an beuracratic city institution building and not a school. ... Yes, after two years of your demands of producing a name, I'm fine with you putting that as the name of the BvB.

Yes, I'm evil, cruel and sadistic. No, I wouldn't wish this on anyone, exept people who vote for it. Yes, not anyone, including people who I usually wish torture on.

[] [Law] Flexibility
That sounds like it's easy to bend to make loopholes larger. That's both, good and bad.

[] [Law] Balance of interests
I would love to choose that. People have conflicting interests? Let's hear them out and try to find a balance.

[] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
Oh, look! Tax crisis 2.0.

[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] Food should not be traded outside the kingdom, except perhaps in times of crisis
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
 
It just seems like the most reliable way to have the provinces take forest actions right now...especially since I'd rather stay on megaproject policy.

So, Grand Docks next turn at normal pace to give the Golden Age time to begin, then kick the Dam on the following turn?

Or do we just start the Dam next turn without kicking, expecting refugees to drop Stability in time for the Dam bonus to fix it? Backup option, I think AN said it would probably become prestige. And we would then be finishing the Dam during the Golden Age.

Or do we start the Dam and Games simultaneously, thus making both take long enough that we can reasonably expect to have time for refugee waves? Granted, that would delay influence and integrations, but OTOH, the Hawks - and any wild nomads! - will absolutely love the games, and the Dam will connect us much better to the Txolla.
I like the idea that the GAMES! will entice other polities and nomads in particular to send some athletes to compete against us and in doing so provide a massive continued Diplo bonus. I don't think that will happen for at least a few more turns (6-10) and even then it would be a megaproject upgrade to an international Olympics.
 
@BungieONI

About the coin problem, we could use Token coin - Wikipedia as means of payment, with this we can control inflation, and use only silver and gold as a external currency, having our own internal coin.

So we could make Token Coins of Bronze + Iron, and we are at a really advanced level of metalworking that we can make a few fail-safes against fake coins.
 
Analysis

Choose a philosophy

[] [Law] Honour the gods - Pretty clearly just has people be more religious. Arguably leads to a stronger respect for our spiritual, probably social, and possibly honor values. Makes us more competitive w/ TS but not preferable for the secularists. Priests might become judges. Least likely to be chosen by us voters.
[] [Law] Maintain stability - Reduces stability loss, obviously. Makes us a bit of a police state, though, and likely increases the level of unrest/corruption necessary for the king to hear about it. Likely to be somewhat heavily focused at the enforcement level with moderate leeway given to judges. Probably will trend more toward heavier punishment.
[] [Law] Balance of interests - I.e. rich person v poor person, industrialist v worker, government v individual, native v foreigner. Most balanced choice overall, but regrettably is the easiest to sway away from its intended purpose. Likely to be more deliberative. Likely to lean toward an antagonistic system of justice.
[] [Law] Community health - Focus on societal health and the good of the many. Nice over the very long term, probably making us a more stable gov and resisting corrupt acts. Bad if those corrupt acts can be painted as being ultimately for the greater good. Bad if oppressing a group is considered necessary. Basically just all the upsides and downsides of Symphony and Greater Justice. Likely to be deliberative initially but not on a very case-by-case basis. Might be more like Japanese law.
[] [Law] Flexibility - Makes the law easier to adjust to the times. Good if we plan on rapidly developing novel products in the future. Bad if we want consistency, whether as far as social values go or as far as internal laws go. On the upside, catching problems once realized is easier w/ this choice. May depend partially on precedent/case law rather than formal written law.
[] [Law] Practicality of enforcement - Basically just asks for corruption to continue. Practicality of Enforcement essentially disallows any intense investigations and consideration of subtle aspects of an individual case.

How can taxes be paid?
[] [Tax] Coin only - Theoretically the least complicated, but causes the most reliance on metal supplies. Will benefit the cities the most initially and cause a shitton of trouble to begin with but once sufficient metal is acquired and distributed it will simplify our system immensely.
[] [Tax] Food or coin - Lets people pay in food and coin. Buffers downsides of coin out by allowing people who don't live near the cities - and thus are likely to be able to grow food - to pay in that instead. Partially cancels out the benefits of coin-only (i.e. widespread currency usage) by reducing incentive to acquire coins. Major downside to food is that it has variable value (especially w/ luxuries like wine, which depend on terroir) and is prone to spoilage. If the government prefers coin, we will need to resell the food, possibly for a lesser value. I.e., this is asking for trouble but balances out most immediate shocks.
[] [Tax] Labour or coin - Pretty much the same as above in regards to the spread of currency and buffering of shocks. IMO, labor is preferable because having taxes as food will just prompt the poor to go hungry if they don't have coins. Labor can't really rot, but utilizing it requires more oversight in the form of clerks or managers going out among the people rather than just managing food in a warehouse. Upside, though, is that no one can lose their body and we already know how much a blacksmith's time is worth vs. a farmer because we already are paying them by their job.
[] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin - Most complicated, has all of the upsides of the different systems and their downsides. Totally screws over any attempt at universality, but multipolar economies are arguably the most immune to disruptions.
Can food be sold?
[] [Food] Food should not be traded outside the kingdom, except perhaps in times of crisis - Keeps us how we are now. Reduces ability to capitolize on excess econ by turning it into wealth/diplo w/ ease.
[] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit - Makes sure that we possess enough to feed everyone, but still allows us to trade away econ. Limits our ability to do the latter freely, however, which will probably be irritating at some point in the future.
[] [Food] The crown will maintain emergency supplies through taxation, the rest is not their concern - We can freely trade away food up until ~0, but exposes us to the risk of trading away food until 0. Pushes a bit toward a free market as the crown is basically saying "we'll take care of this, you take care of yourself."
Change the heir?
[] [Heir] No, compromise is good (Mediocre Admin and Martial, Average Diplo) - Literally the most boring option but everyone is pretty happy with it, because that is pretty much the only upside.
[] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic) - Gives us some nice tech growth, but moderately bad otherwise. Not *super* bad, though. Only martial is worse than the other two have, and if all of the stats are summed this pick has higher than the other two due to the sheer strength of that heroic mystic.
[] [Heir] A strong general is needed in these times (Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Excellent Martial) - Good if we expect war on the horizon, which tbh we do. But not heroic, and we all love dem mystic heroes.

Upon completion of the law, choose a bonus
[] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy - Gives us that good old government upgrade shit. Probably can be gained by other means, but is pretty nice.
[] [Bonus] Gain new Social Value slot - Lets us keep Wildcat Prospecting and fish for a new value from our neighbors. Depends 100% on if you like WC or not. We can probably get this through a golden age.
[] [Bonus] Randomly upgrade a value - Upgrades one of our values which, let's be honest, have an even bigger impact on our civilization than our government does. This can probably be gotten through a golden age, however.
[] [Bonus] Enter Golden Age immediately - Why would you vote for this? We can get it by just hitting 3 stability (takes a secondary) and getting max in 2 stats (hello +12 econ per turn) and then sitting there for a full turn. If you pick this you should feel ashamed.
[] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls) - Technology is literally the bomb. Haha, punny. But seriously technology is radically awesome. ESPECIALLY admin and social based technology which are far, far, far, far, farx1000000 harder to get than materials and martial tech, mostly because we just understand which actions will get us them. Pick this if you're not picking gov.



Personal Preferences
[] [Law] Balance of interests

[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy

[X] [Bonus] Randomly upgrade a value
[X] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls)

Can't really decide between these two for law.
Balance of Interests is obviously, well, balanced. But it's easier to imbalance as one side grows stronger. Community health is kind of better societally but is rather vague and might work to further suppress individuals. I think I like it more, though.

Labour or coin so that the penniless can pay in labor. Paying in food just sounds weird to me.

As long as we ourselves have food, there's nothing wrong with selling it. Other than that it might impact our ability to hit and maintain Baby Booms, that is.

Mystic Hero ftw.

Torn between the government upgrade (useful), value upgrade (potentially more useful) and the tech upgrade (potentially the most useful, but highly roll dependent). Probably the gov upgrade will win. >.>
I feel like this analysis is missing the "let's ask our advisors" step.

For instance, if coin and labor are chosen, how will we evaluate the worth of labor vs the worth of coin?

Also, "if the graneries are full" seems subject to corruption and mistakes. Not to mention likely to lead rich traders to push against the creation of more graneries
 
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I feel like this analysis is missing the "let's ask our advisors" step.

For instance, if coin and labor are chosen, how will we evaluate the worth of labor vs the worth of coin?
I think that's not something we the players can influence. In fact, I think labor values is something the government will be deciding, not us, so all this talk of "we" is rather moot.
 
@BungieONI

About the coin problem, we could use Token coin - Wikipedia as means of payment, with this we can control inflation, and use only silver and gold as a external currency, having our own internal coin.

So we could make Token Coins of Bronze + Iron, and we are at a really advanced level of metalworking that we can make a few fail-safes against fake coins.
Hmm.

So we'd be doing limits of use legislature on our government provided currency?

I'm more inclined to go with having internal coins made of bronze and iron with special metalworking marks or other anti-counterfeit ideas.

Hmm...

Probably something for later consideration.

Got any good music for our ridiculous stat generation? Preferably something from a reactor or power core level in a Metroid game?
 
I think that's not something we the players can influence. In fact, I think labor values is something the government will be deciding, not us, so all this talk of "we" is rather moot.
I meant @Academia Nut how do our advisors think the value disparity would be resolved if we picked "coin and labor"

We don't want a situation where inflation or deflation wildly swings the type of taxes coming in
 
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I vaguely remember AN mentioning at some point that Golden Ages have a cooldown.
It's timeline, however, was never set. I would not be surprised if we entered a different type of age, in fact, if we started doing golden ages super close to each other.

If we actually get to a state where we can't spend all of our stats, even with using golden ages on top of our ability to just spend stats, I have a feeling our government will evolve to cope with it.

That is genuinely very unlikely though.
 
...
[] [Law] Practicality of enforcement NO!

Beaurocraty should never be encouraged to this extend. ... Or any extend, but since that's impossible, previous statement stands.
This is the kind of thing that leads to institutions demanding things from people that don't exist. If you are wondering, whether the people or the things don't exist. The answer would be yes. This institution didn't exist in the country I came from and that you are demanding it anyway, as well as putting more and more extra reminder charges, doesn't help in the slightest.
No, I have no idea who this guy, you are talking about is and he isn't living with us. Yes, I'm aware that having someone else live with me, without putting this in the papers is illegal.
No, there is no BvB to Saint Assholious XII. The BvB is an beuracratic city institution building and not a school. ... Yes, after two years of your demands of producing a name, I'm fine with you putting that as the name of the BvB.

Yes, I'm evil, cruel and sadistic. No, I wouldn't wish this on anyone, exept people who vote for it. Yes, not anyone, including people who I usually wish torture on.

[] [Law] Flexibility
That sounds like it's easy to bend to make loopholes larger. That's both, good and bad.

[] [Law] Balance of interests
I would love to choose that. People have conflicting interests? Let's hear them out and try to find a balance.

[] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
Oh, look! Tax crisis 2.0.

[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] Food should not be traded outside the kingdom, except perhaps in times of crisis
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy


Wut?

No really, care to explain that first part? In simple English preferably.
 
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It's law time, no motivating music for us

Nom nom.

Tasty music for the music throne. Sound bliss for the sound god.

I have a feeling that someone is going to be feeling this music besides us in the near future. Probably the shit out of luck Metal Workers.
 
I maintain that this is a good thing - worst case scenario, we push hard for a Golden Age and keep taking the expensive Golden Age Innovations, which are designed to use up such a surplus of stats.

Although I'd be tempted to get everything overflowing at least once, to grab a legacy...
The overflowed stats govern what kind of innovations we get. IIRC the Golden Age Innovation that turned them from a vassal into the Xohyr Empire was a Golden Age Innovation that overflowed everything to martial.

I'm tempted to keep running the Golden Age until we get another critical. An Iron level advantage would be really useful right about now.
We are on Labour + Food right now, you can ask @ThrawnCA for info as he has the quotes.

Anyway in other news we will be gaining shittons of overflow(about +16 in the current system so probably invalid as of next update) on the next main turn as long as we maintain pop explosion.
Given that we're going to be facing Iron Nomads in a couple turns, so building walls might be a good idea. And then there is influence subordinate and various megaprojects. We could also make more aqueducts, then get true cities which we can spend stats building massive walls for. These might also get us a Great Wall Megaproject.

There is also integrating and increasing our caps so we can handle it better, which will also give us various canals and dams to build.
 
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