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Paths of Civilization

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Wouldn't labour be rather difficult to put a static value on? Like, I could easily see future problems popping up yet again about what job is worth what different amount for taxes
 
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[X] [Law] Practicality of enforcement
[X] [Tax] Food or coin
Coin=Labour - Location

[X] [Food] The crown will maintainemergency supplies through taxation, the rest is not their concern
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (PoorMartial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Randomly upgrade a value
 
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Guys we should really avoid locking in votes until we get some Analysis done.

!Warning!

Like we found out when we did the previous Law upgrade many of the options listed in the update are traps and will lead to a crisis.​
Adhoc vote count started by Concho117 on Jul 24, 2017 at 2:17 AM, finished with 83439 posts and 18 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Concho117 on Jul 24, 2017 at 2:17 AM, finished with 83439 posts and 18 votes.
Click to expand...
 
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PyrrosWarrior said:
Wouldn't labour be rather difficult to put a value on? Like, I could easily see future problems popping up yet again about what job is worth what different amount of taxes
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Only farmers can get food easily for payment and over-reliance on coin would lead to specie shortfall as there isn't enough Coins in circulation.
I mean how else other than labor or coin would would a Soldier or Boat builder or a clerk pay their Taxes?
 
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[X] [Law] Flexibility
[X] [Tax] Food or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy

A flexible law set this early will serve us well in the future. It means less revisions need to be made.
 
[X] [Law] Balance of interests
[X] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
[X] [Food] The crown will maintain emergency supplies through taxation, the rest is not their concern
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
Mostly agree with @Tylonius , however:

[X] [Bonus] Gain new Social Value slot

This will lock in Wildcat prospecting, especially since we haven't had it trigger in a while so it's in danger of going away. Remember we only have it because it's CA linked!
 
[] [Law] Community health
We should always focus on keeping our people happy and healthy
[] [Law] Flexibility
This would stop something like the tax crisis from happening again, and let us react to future crisis faster.

[] [Tax] Food or coin
Paying in labor lets skeevy practices begin to pop up, so paying in food is best for farmers who may not always have coin on hand, and paying in coin is best for artisans and clerks who don't have time to do labor or farm.

[] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
See to our people first, then we can make money off of the excess.

[] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
Heroic Mystic as we finalize the Law? Yes please!

[] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls)
Both of these are good, and I can't decide between them.
 
We really shouldn't vote this early, but there are a couple of things that are straightforward

[X] [Tax] Food or coin
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
 
[X] [Tax] Food or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy

I'm betting that we are going to be facing a diplomatic crisis in the next update. Shame to be low on diplo and martial, but I can't say no to heroes.
 
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keenscythe said:
Only farmers can get food easily for payment and over-reliance on coin would to specie shortfall as there isn't enough Coins in circulation.
I mean how else other than labor or coin would would a Soldier or Boat builder or a clerk pay their Taxes?
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For the food part, they would be able to get it if we decide to allow food to be traded as a commodity on the market. Good point on the current lack of coin in circulation though. Perhaps at some point we should introduce a few more coins of lesser value made of easier-to-acquire materials to help with our developing markets...

Edit - I also forgot to mention that most of our population are farmers so and the rest tend to be fairly well-off relative to the rest of the population. Our soldiers are also farmers when not on active duty.
 
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PyrrosWarrior said:
Wouldn't labour be rather difficult to put a value on? Like, I could easily see future problems popping up yet again about what job is worth what different amount for taxes
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This is already a problem, with clerks and artisans paying people to do their labor quota because their labor is considered to be so much more expensive than farming and stuff.
It's just asking for an exploitation of the underclass, even more than we currently have.
 
Guys, keep in mind if we want to keep Wildcat Prospecting, we need that extra social slot due to the fact that the Hath are no longer around to provide support to it.
 
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy

Not sure about the others, but this definitely feels like the way to go for the bonus, we've been staggering around like a drunkard desperately playing catchup for so long, rather than just making par this would actually put us ahead of the game again. Feels very valuable, and also just less stress wondering if we're about to explode.
 
[X] [Law] Maintain stability
[X] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
 
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
 
keenscythe said:
Only farmers can get food easily for payment and over-reliance on coin would to specie shortfall as there isn't enough Coins in circulation.
I mean how else other than labor or coin would would a Soldier or Boat builder or a clerk pay their Taxes?
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If a person is a warrior they are almost always either a yeomen, who is a farmer and can pay with food, or a hereditary elite, which means that they have coin to spare.
Most of our artisans are already the elites and thus have coin to spare.
 
@PyrrosWarrior I figure we alrdy pay jobs a fairly set and recorded amount, based on the census description, so paying labour by job isn't hard to figure out at all. Plus, if worst comes to worst they can pay with low-skilled labor, and not needing to pay in food means 0 risk of starving as a result of taxes, p much.

Academia Nut said:
The king and crown have some idea how many people live in the kingdom, how much they eat, and how much they earn.
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Umi-san said:
@PyrrosWarrior I figure we alrdy pay jobs a fairly set and recorded amount, based on the census description, so paying labour by job isn't hard to figure out at all. Plus, if worst comes to worst they can pay with low-skilled labor, and not needing to pay in food means 0 risk of starving as a result of taxes, p much.
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We pay them in item distribution from what I remember. I don't remember as to whether we ever started paying them in coin.
 
Also, keep in mind while taxes being payed in all three ways is the obvious compromise, it WILL lead to more complexity in keeping track, so don't be surprised if we get hit with another crisis if we roll poorly.
 
[X] [Law] Honour the gods
[X] [Law] Maintain stability
[] [Law] Balance of interests
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Law] Flexibility
[] [Law] Practicality of enforcement

[] [Tax] Coin only
[X] [Tax] Food or coin
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin


[X] [Food] Food should not be traded outside the kingdom, except perhaps in times of crisis
[] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Food] The crown will maintain emergency supplies through taxation, the rest is not their concern


[] [Heir] No, compromise is good (Mediocre Admin and Martial, Average Diplo)
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[] [Heir] A strong general is needed in these times (Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Excellent Martial)


[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Bonus] Gain new Social Value slot
[X] [Bonus] Randomly upgrade a value
[] [Bonus] Enter Golden Age immediately
[] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls)
​
initial vote, will be changed
 
[ ] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit

Doesnt this just heavily incentivise making smaller granaries? This seems really easy to exploit.
 
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