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Paths of Civilization

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Forgothrax said:
Will we start getting the benefits of the Palace once the "core" is completed and just the annexes are being built, or only once the whole shebang is done?
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Possibly, depending on how things work out, there might be some early benefits.

tryrar said:
...looking at the tally, I just gotta ask: @Academia Nut if that joke vote for Mechanicsburg were to actually somehow WIN, what would you do?
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Not a valid option :p
 
[X][Annex] Great Hall Expansion
[X][Annex] Shrine
[X][Annex] Storehouse
[X][Annex] Library

Don't need 2x library in my minority opinion.
 
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Great Hall Expansion x2
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Garden
[X] Arsenal
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
 
[X] Arsenal

At work, so can't really comment much other than why don't people want this?!?!?! It's literally a manufacturing center/research center!

:cry::cry::cry:
 
ETA50M said:
If we thought long term we would've built the Palace and kept our trails up to date and have temples all over our nations right now. Thinking long term includes more then just pushing for tech advances it involves reacting to problems before they become a wide spread crisis. Trails and general infrastructure isn't sexy in the face of water mills and alchemy but they are what keep Empires around.
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That's lovely... however it does not address any argument leveled at your current plan. Have Faith in the Plan does not cut if for me. Long term planing is not magically better for being long term planing no matter what it proposes.
 
redzonejoe said:
[X][Annex] Great Hall Expansion
[X][Annex] Shrine
[X][Annex] Storehouse
[X][Annex] Library

Don't need 2x library in my minority opinion.
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Yes we do, since it is likley to allow the mysticism refund of a normal library, which will make the Census essentially FREE. You read that right, a FREE cost megaproject.
 
tryrar said:
Yeah, and since we didn't, we're forced to make more short term choices. It sucks, but we simply can't afford to build an aqueduct to Redshore at this time, and I for one don't want to find out what unpleasant effects of getting a true city through overcrowding rather than aqueducts are.
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True but its something that constantly occurs which is part and parcel of running such a centralized government without the necessary tools. So the onus is on us to plan around them if we don't wish to delegate.
McLuvin said:
It's time we don't have and resources we can't really spare overly well. No need to start attacking the entire thread over shortsightedness when you aren't looking around at our major issues besetting us and the situation we are currently in, think about it, can we afford to spend time fixing Redshore after we build without aquaducts considering how time is of the essence? Can we afford the strain of another True City and even if we make Valleyhome a Free City can we afford to have a highly politicised, high population vipers nest in our central territories whilst we are going through an Admin crisis?

There is one short term reason to say yes, one that ignores the Lowlands situation and several reasons to say no that would help our civ even survive.

Survival is needed now, don't take the risk for a long term gain that could hurt us even worse. Don't look to the future and forget the present
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We been talking about building the Palace since may then we talked about building it once we got currency and we still didn't. Valleyhome derives its power from its political power beyond that they have nothing they can use to challenge the trade might of Redshore. If you wish to get started on our other problems thats fine just don't come after me for saying Redshore is the netter choice for our long term prospects.
 
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Abby Normal said:
Err, the update outright says the "bare minimum palace" would be a major improvement in and of itself:

The annexes are important, but they're not the only benefit we're getting from the thing...and as others have said, the more expansive we make the thing, the longer it is until we get any of its benefits at all...

Also, as i mentioned before, the comment about the Grand Hall Extension and the gardens was AN responding to a question about aesthetics, not cost or functionality, so until/unless he clarifies, his earlier WoG saying that adding new extensions after this is possible, if at a slightly greater cost, is the relevant thing to look at, imo.
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It would be a major improvement, but I don't believe a bare bones one would be decisive like a Palace with a Temple and Library would.

I don't want to have to worry about juggling improvement to the palace with everything else we will have to do: The Census and The Law, the Stallion Integration, and the Lowlands Integration to name a few.

I want to make a decisive improvement to our administrative abilities, so that we can fully focus on the looming crisis's ahead.
 
eternal-potato said:
We need a palace before we can start the tax reform.
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You misunderstood me, let me try again.
I am asking if we can say; "We have completed the basic 5-7 main actions of the project however Tax reform is far worse than we were expecting it to be. Can we quit the project and just take the basic palace so that its finished and we can get on with the Census, rather than cut our worryingly small safety margin by another 3-8 turns."
Does that make sense?
Regardless I'm happy with PrimalShadows answer.
 
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X][Annex] Library
[X][Annex] Library x2
[x][Annex] Storehouse
[x][Annex] Great Hall Expansion
 
[X] [Loc] Redshore

[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Great Hall Expansion x2
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Gardens
[X] Storehouse
[X] Arsenal
 
Citino said:
[X] Arsenal

At work, so can't really comment much other than why don't people want this?!?!?! It's literally a manufacturing center/research center!

:cry::cry::cry:
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Because it isn't worth the extra turn, whereas the library provides a refund and buffer, and the temple does the same. It also doesn't provide nearly the administrative benefit of storerooms, or a great hall/garden combo. The liklihood that it isn't going to be instant steel button you think it is.

There's lots of reasons people don't want it.
 
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tryrar said:
Yes we do, since it is likley to allow the mysticism refund of a normal library, which will make the Census essentially FREE. You read that right, a FREE cost megaproject.
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I mean, thats nice, but 4-6 mysticism isn't actually that urgent right now, and we're doing ok on art as well, especially since unless i'm failing at reading comprehension, we should have 9 instead of our current 7 thanks to the blackbird and carrion eater expansion our provinces did


Raichu1972 said:
It would be a major improvement, but I don't believe a bare bones one would be decisive like a Palace with a Temple and Library would.

I don't want to have to worry about juggling improvement to the palace with everything else we will have to do: The Census and The Law, the Stallion Integration, and the Lowlands Integration to name a few.

I want to make a decisive improvement to our administrative abilities, so that we can fully focus on the looming crisis's ahead.
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But...the problem about "juggling improvements to the palace with everything else we have to do" applies to building stuff now as well, only it means we trade a slightly reduced cost for *having* to do them before we can do the census and the law, instead of us having the choice between what's most important? Also, i dont think anyone is voting for not having at least one shrine and library in the palace, and iirc double library and a single storehouse is winning, which gives pretty good administrative boost anyway...
 
ETA50M said:
True but its something that constantly occurs which is part and parcel of running such a centralized government without the necessary tools.
We been talking about building the Palace since may then we talked about building it once we got currency and we still didn't. Valleyhome derives its power from its political power beyond that they have nothing they can use to challenge the trade might of Redshore. If you wish to get started on our other problems thats fine just don't come after me for saying Redshore is the netter choice for our long term prospects.
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...for our VERY long term prospects. That's what AN said. That means it might be relevant in 15-20 turns, but at the moment it's more trouble than it's worth. He also said it's PROBABLY better, which means it's hazy wether it really even benefits us. So your proclomation that it's better for our long term prospects is dubious at best.
 
Abby Normal said:
I mean, thats nice, but 4-6 mysticism isn't actually that urgent right now, and we're doing ok on art as well, especially since unless i'm failing at reading comprehension, we should have 9 instead of our current 7 thanks to the blackbird and carrion eater expansion our provinces did



But...the problem about "juggling improvements to the palace with everything else we have to do" applies to building stuff now as well, only it means we trade a slightly reduced cost for *having* to do them before we can do the census and the law, instead of us having the choice between what's most important? Also, i dont think anyone is voting for not having at least one shrine and library in the palace, and iirc double library and a single storehouse is winning, which gives pretty good administrative boost anyway...
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Don't forget Great Hall Expansion, it also has roughly half the votes.
 
DragonParadox said:
That's lovely... however it does not address any argument leveled at your current plan. Have Faith in the Plan does not cut if for me. Long term planing is not magically better for being long term planing no matter what it proposes.
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My plan is about doing whats best to keep our connectivity up and we can finish the aqeducts with various secondaries spread out before overcrowding becomes an issue.
 
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