Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
And if we dedicate a bunch of explosives and/or manpower we can connect it to the canal
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Canada
Once we get explosives or a large amount of bodies to throw at as well...
- Location
- Sweden
[X] [Loc] Redshore
Ok i am going to suggest that we go with Redshore as location, i have heard the arguments that there is no reason to move it now or that it is even necessary.
Here are my reason to why it's a good idea to do it now
- Access to the ocean: This is one of the oft mentioned advantages of Redshore, it allows Redshore to trade and support our distant subordinates from our trading post Greenshore to the Western Wall. It also has greater contact with the wider world and will make us more well known around the world.
- New political Blood: As it stands, the place that holds the most political clout today is Valleyhome, unless a large portion of the Ymaryn prefers a candidate (and even then it requires valleyhome to be split on their candidate) it will most likely be a person from one of their noble families that vill wear the mantle of kingship next (do we have crowns?). By moving the capital we diminish the old families power over the royal election process and allow the rest of the people a bigger role in the heir elections.
-Before they can dig in!: If we build the palace in Valleyhome it will become much harder to move the capital, since the local noble families can use it as a reason to refuse any motion to move the capital. "The great palace is in
Valley home, our ancestors saw that the city was the rightful center of our lands and thus build the great palace here" using this kind of argument.
- Political stagnation: As it is we have not gotten to influence the way our people do politics in quite some time, i think it will be more likely that we might get a chance to change things around if we move it.
These are the stuff i can think of for now, might expand on these tomorrow, after i have gotten some sleep.
Ok i am going to suggest that we go with Redshore as location, i have heard the arguments that there is no reason to move it now or that it is even necessary.
Here are my reason to why it's a good idea to do it now
- Access to the ocean: This is one of the oft mentioned advantages of Redshore, it allows Redshore to trade and support our distant subordinates from our trading post Greenshore to the Western Wall. It also has greater contact with the wider world and will make us more well known around the world.
- New political Blood: As it stands, the place that holds the most political clout today is Valleyhome, unless a large portion of the Ymaryn prefers a candidate (and even then it requires valleyhome to be split on their candidate) it will most likely be a person from one of their noble families that vill wear the mantle of kingship next (do we have crowns?). By moving the capital we diminish the old families power over the royal election process and allow the rest of the people a bigger role in the heir elections.
-Before they can dig in!: If we build the palace in Valleyhome it will become much harder to move the capital, since the local noble families can use it as a reason to refuse any motion to move the capital. "The great palace is in
Valley home, our ancestors saw that the city was the rightful center of our lands and thus build the great palace here" using this kind of argument.
- Political stagnation: As it is we have not gotten to influence the way our people do politics in quite some time, i think it will be more likely that we might get a chance to change things around if we move it.
These are the stuff i can think of for now, might expand on these tomorrow, after i have gotten some sleep.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
no, that's for connecting to the canal, not the lowlands
- Location
- The People's Saltern
As much as I'd like to have a massive Grand Palace, we need to get the bare minimum and eat the extra costs later when we expand. I also want it to be more for administration than prestige and festivals, so I don't really want any of the "optionals" that don't help with administration.
[] Great Hall Expansion
Just one. Enough for it to be useful for the advisers and subordinates but not to the point where it functions as a festival hall.
Edit: None. We can upgrade it after and the built in one is enough.
[] Shrine
Two is enough.
Edit: One. Don't need the upgraded shrine just yet.
[] Library
Two, but I will be fine with 3. The records will definitely help.
[] Gardens
It looks nice and helps spiritually, but isn't required.
[] Storehouse
These help administratively, but only on a local level. Skip for now.
[] Arsenal
Not really going for a castle now.
[] Fortifications
Not really going for a castle now.
@Academia Nut Do we still get the synergies if we expand the annexes after the Palace is complete?
[X][Loc] Redshore
Better for the extreme long term and helps with administrating current provinces more than Valleyhome.
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[] Great Hall Expansion
Just one. Enough for it to be useful for the advisers and subordinates but not to the point where it functions as a festival hall.
Edit: None. We can upgrade it after and the built in one is enough.
[] Shrine
Two is enough.
Edit: One. Don't need the upgraded shrine just yet.
[] Library
Two, but I will be fine with 3. The records will definitely help.
[] Gardens
It looks nice and helps spiritually, but isn't required.
[] Storehouse
These help administratively, but only on a local level. Skip for now.
[] Arsenal
Not really going for a castle now.
[] Fortifications
Not really going for a castle now.
@Academia Nut Do we still get the synergies if we expand the annexes after the Palace is complete?
[X][Loc] Redshore
Better for the extreme long term and helps with administrating current provinces more than Valleyhome.
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Shrine
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The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
For Redshore, building the Aqueduct would take 4 Secondary Actions and a total of 8 Econ. I think we could afford it after building the Palace, and the Palace location is the sort of thing that will matter far enough into the long term that we can't just focus entirely on what's optimal in the short term. So long as it's good enough in the short term, I'd rather take the route that benefits us most in the future.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I forgot how the vast majority of our leaders for the past ten turns weren't from the north
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
No, you're mixing up two things. Explosives/bodies is connecting the two rivers. A bit more tech an a megaproject can bypass the cataracts.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
1. Extreme Long Term
2. That doesn't include the Lowlands
3. It will cost waaaay more time and effort when both of those are in low supply no prep will cause issues and AN said it would cause issues with overcrowding whilst we build emergency aqueducts, which will cause even more issues and more delays
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- Location
- Australia
@Academia Nut
Can we make Valleyhome a free city now if we move the capital and would that help Centralization?
Can we make Valleyhome a free city now if we move the capital and would that help Centralization?
- Location
- Canada
Still doesn't change our provinces want Redshore because its easier for them to reach and send delegates. It synergies well with expanded great hall as well.
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
easier by 1 day fast, 1 week langorous
- Location
- Mists of Albion
You really want to deal with a new powerful subordinate right in our territorial heartlands at this point in time?
Looking at the tally right now, baring a swing, we know most of what is happening.
The location will be either Valleyhome or Redshore, with the former leading by a decent bit.
The annexes will be a shrine and two libraries, and probably both a Storehouse and a Great Hall Expansion - though the last two are contentious. No other option has enough votes to be competitive as of now, though as always a concerted push or an applicable WoG can turn everything around.
The location will be either Valleyhome or Redshore, with the former leading by a decent bit.
The annexes will be a shrine and two libraries, and probably both a Storehouse and a Great Hall Expansion - though the last two are contentious. No other option has enough votes to be competitive as of now, though as always a concerted push or an applicable WoG can turn everything around.
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Mark my words, we build the Grand Palace without Gardens and someday our King will be poisoned and the antidote will be out of reach because it isn't grown locally!
... Not that I would personally send Blackbirds to ensure that, of course.
... Not that I would personally send Blackbirds to ensure that, of course.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
I wish I could believe this, but unless we somehow manage to go multiple turns without a crisis or a brand new shiny or a subordinate to integrate, I just don't see it.
Taking our most populous and intensely political city from under the direct administration of the king.... truly nothing can go wrong.
No focal point for civil wars here.
- Location
- Canada
Doesn't change what the update says or else it wouldn't have been that big a deal to warrant a mention. Valleyhome is the easy choice for now but Redshore will pay off.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This is correct. Not sure when, but there will be a general reduction in time frames between turns, and also more sub-turn events, particularly around wars. As a general rule of thumb I figure that the current era is roughly equal to 4000 BCE + 15 years/threadmark to account for various weirdness. So the era is currently about 2300 BCE. About. That rule of thumb is more to determine the century than anything else.
Yes.
Probably. I might try to mock up a design once the number of annexes has been finalized, but it will really depend on what new annexes are being added. Expanding the Great Hall or Gardens will require considerable renovation as they take up a lot of space, and the Great Hall especially needs to be continuous. Others you can just add on a new building where you can make room, for the most part anyway.
Yes.
If you choose to move, the turn of completion it can be offered.
- Location
- The People's Saltern
1. It also helps more in the short term by being closer to the current periphery states.
2. We don't want to expand into the lowlands right now. It has negative synergies with Divine Steward.
3. We need to go into an infrastructure phase later to build up enough for both the North and the South anyways. This isn't that big of a deal.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
In the extreme long term.
I put a little emphasis on the most important part
Or it could be that our advisors are short sighted and do not see the administrative and political calamity in the making for the minor transportation advantage.
Romv
A Memory of TREES
What reason could Valleyhome of all places have to want a civil war?
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I feel like this points strongly toward doing these now or doing them never
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Will that prevent or make it more expensive/less effective to add or expand those via extended project?
...When does the additional penalty to centralization tolerance take place?