[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Main] Grand Palace x2
[X] [Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Stallion Tribes

Guys, we don't need to integrate them any more, we have a way to directly address the problem without straining our administration even more by integrating them. We really need to get the palace and census and laws done, the need for tax reform can absolutely wreck our shit. We're looking at 5-7 actions for the Grand Palace, then 4-6 actions for the Census, and then about that many actions for The Law. Our provinces are still set on Offensive, so they'll handle the war mission requirements, but we really fucking need to get our administration reformed.
 
Why is everyone so focused on building the Palace now? We're sitting at 5 Econ with it being bound to cost 5-7 while we're on Offence policy and our country is basically falling apart.

[X] [Main] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Thunder Horse
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced

Will the Red Banner automatically go along with the War Mission or do we have to put in a sub-vote for that?
Integrating the Stallioms gives us martial and econ. This improves both our ability to build the palace as well as prosecute the war.
 
Integrating the Stallion Tribes will also add even more stress to our administration, which is our big problem right now.
 
Analysis And Diffcheckers - "Cultural Friction" Update​
Diff Checker (Actions)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
General
Diplomacy 8 [+2]
Economy 5 (+1) [-2]
Econ Expansion 11 [+2]
Martial 7 {9}
Wealth 8 [+2-1]
Econ 5 -> 5:
5 + 2 (Refugees) - 1 (Festival) - 1 (???)
Hmm...i'm definitely out of practice here; anyone know what i'm forgetting?
Econ Expansion is the opposite.
Martial is just the (+1) taking effect.
Wealth 8 -> 8:
8 - 2 (Festival) + 2 (Tribute) = 8
Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Stab 1 -> 1: -1 (Refugees OR Vassal Interactions), +1 Festival

Organizational
Centralization 4
Hierarchy 7
Religious Authority 3
Religious Authority 2 -> 3, so +1 from debates, and back to italics.
Cultural
Art 9
Mysticism 15 [+1]
Prestige 42
Art 6 -> 9:
6 + 2 (Festival) + 1 (??) = 9
Prestige 40 -> 42, from the tribute :)

[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2
Going with this for now; Integration should get us the econ and martial for megaprojects and the war

My first thought is mysticism overflow, but the Temple shouldn't apply until after this vote, i'm pretty sure...

Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
*S: +2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, potential additional effects
*6 Econ Expansion available (max 12 to keep Sacred Forest True City; max 16 for Valleyhome)
Econ Expansion limits for cities went up again, likely due to the extra province, though i'd have to go back and check when we had this happen before, and any other province additions?

Expand Forests - The People have knowledge of how to regrow and repair forests, which extends to bringing them to places they have never been, with considerable effort. With charcoal now in higher demand, can also provide a sustainable supply (7/8 currently locked up)
* S: -1 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +1 Econ next turn if in settled territory and controlled, potential discoveries
* M: -2 Econ, -1 Econ Expansion, grows forest, +2 Econ next turn if in settled and controlled territory, improved odds of success
We have 1 free forest

Influence Subordinate - By transferring specialists and teachers to subordinates they can be nudged into behaving more to the liking of the core provinces
*S: -2 Diplo, Transfer 1 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; influences subordinate culture
*M: -3 Diplo, Transfer 2 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; significantly influences subordinate culture
!!! New action! @Academia Nut can this be taken undirected and affect all subordinates slightly, or does it have to be a targeted action?

Integrate Vassal - Now in contact with the core territories, the lowlanders can be brought more fully into the traditions of the People
*M: -4 Diplomacy, transitions vassal to March or Colony
*2M: -8 Diplomacy, transitions portion of vassal to full province, converts rest to March or Colony
As we've been told, non-periphery subordinates are harder to integrate :/ Depending on how soon we can spare the actions and diplo, probably wouldwant a march, given the nature of the lowlands.

New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: northern Blackriver, far north-eastern Redhills, south of cataracts
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number Econ Expansion depending on environment
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases Econ Expansion
Special: Main new settlement in south of cataracts or far north-eastern Redhills can produce new provinces. Far eastern Redhills will also give territorial continuity with your vassal and allow for their integration
No new expansion targets
Survey Lands - What interesting discoveries are within the People's lands?
* S: Potential new discoveries
* M: -1 Econ, improved odds of success; used 2 times
Alas, no change to this action with our Early Surveying tech, though its likely that it silently improves the odds of success anyway
Guys pay some Attention to this, the Thunder Speakers took our position as the dominating religion

It's obvious that they either wish to convert us and thus vassalize us or create a religious conflict within our people

We now need to build temples whether we like it or not

E: naturally we need to do this after the coming turn of absorbing the stallions and starting the palace,

My suggestion for this would be to switch policy to spiritual the next turn if we get a white peace with the TH
That was there last turn, and italics means they're *threatening* our position, not that they *have* dominance; that would be a bold listing.
 
[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Main] Grand Palace x2
[X] [Secondary] Influence Subordinate - Stallion Tribes

Guys, we don't need to integrate them any more, we have a way to directly address the problem without straining our administration even more by integrating them. We really need to get the palace and census and laws done, the need for tax reform can absolutely wreck our shit. We're looking at 5-7 actions for the Grand Palace, then 4-6 actions for the Census, and then about that many actions for The Law. Our provinces are still set on Offensive, so they'll handle the war mission requirements, but we really fucking need to get our administration reformed.

That is also pretty workable; we may have to cycle this action through all our subordinates though, which is going to cost.
Still worth it.
Not sure whether it is currently better or worse than either building some chariots or making another War Mission though, so for now I'll leave my vote at "more chariots" and revisit in the morning, because it's 23:40 and I've gotta wake up at 6AM.
 
Integrating the Stallioms gives us martial and econ. This improves both our ability to build the palace as well as prosecute the war.
Yes but the only way to do that would be to double secondary Stallions which we can't do because:
At least one secondary War Mission is required to assist them in addition to the Red Banner.
It'd ping off Lord's Loyalty+Divine Stewards and risk us sliding into a tantrum spiral/and or the Lowland Minors collapsing. So we have to commit something this turn regardless and if we start the Palace then we'd have to double secondary to integrate the Stallions.

And does anyone really think that we won't have a problem which requires at least a secondary action to address next turn?
automatically, as per the paragraph stating the required secondary

the people voting for the double main palace should consider doing an econ action with their extra secondary
Thank you.
 
Integrating the Stallion Tribes will also add even more stress to our administration, which is our big problem right now.

Are you sure. That isn't mentioned as an immediate event in the spoiler tag, as a price we will pay. I don't see a drop in centralization or Hierarchy.

Did AN say that will happen immediately when we get it. Or is this one of those it's so obvious even when GM doesn't say anything moments?
 
[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2
Adhoc vote count started by gutza1 on Jul 8, 2017 at 4:40 PM, finished with 70527 posts and 27 votes.
 
Did AN say that will happen immediately when we get it. Or is this one of those it's so obvious even when GM doesn't say anything moments?
Given that this is literally integrating even more land into our direct oversight and that before double Main Roads answer to "will another province kill us?" was "Maybe", I assume the latter. I already asked AN to clarify and am awaiting an answer, because this is something we should at least know IC.
 
We are on offensive policy. That means we'll be doing several war missions.
Which would mean as others have noted that we'd basically be relying on our provinces to fight for us, setting aside the fact that they may just choose options which burn through Econ such that even the bump from the Stallions isn't enough.
 
We are sitting on Martial 7, which may not be enough to wage a somewhat distant war against two polities set hard on being at WAAAR; and plus at least one of them - Thunder Horses - seems to be martially inclined as the whole society.



Could you please choose one?
Either it will not create additional strain, in which case there will be no oversight and there effectively was no integration, or there is more oversight, in which case there is more work to do, more to keep track of and generally more strain. You cannot have both, as far as I understand what the "strain" means.

@Academia Nut , could we get any idea how better/worse/same would integrating Stallions make our administrative situation?




Not enough war missions. Either Double Main + MP support or Offensive + Double Main Palace.
One secondary would likely seriously damage our vassal.
I suppose I should clarify.

It will increase the strain by having to bring together the Core Ymaryn administration and directly subordinate the Stallion administration under it, but it's not as though we have to settle multiple new provinces.

The Stallions are our people and generally understand how our administration works, so it shouldn't be much of an administrative hassle to integrate them into our system?

Did that make more sense? If not, I can try and explain it a different way.
 
[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2

Next turn we should switch to megaproject support and manually do war missions.
 
Keep in mind, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Integrating the Stallion Tribes gives stats, while Influencing them eats stats, meaning that the cost for integrating them is paid elsewhere. And that's in our administrative burden and cultural friction.
 
Why is everyone double integrating? It doesn't speed up the process or add any additional effects.
 
Current stats:
Diplomacy 8 [+2] = 10
Economy 5 (+1) [-2] = 4
Martial 7 {9} = 7{7+ 4/3 = 9} (econ dependent; rounded up)
Wealth 8 [+2-1] = 9
Art 9 = 9/10 (if mysticism not consumed by actions)
Mysticism 15 [+1] = 15

Current Plans:

GP x 2 + InfS Offensive Policy:
Influence Subordinate - *S: -2 Diplo, Transfer 1 Econ, Wealth, Art and Mysticism; influences subordinate culture
Grand Palace - The king's palace is not just a dwelling but a place of government, a stockpile for the People's needs, and a symbol of strength to outsiders (5-7? action commitment, -1 Econ and Art per action)

Econ 4 - 1 - 2 = 1 (no income from provinces due to offensive)
Diplomacy 10 - 2 = 8.
Art 9 - 2 - 1 = 6
Mysticism 15 - 1 = 15
Wealth 9 - 1 - x (periodic wealth damage, 1-3) = ~7, at highest.

GP + IntM-ST Offensive Policy:
Art 9 - 1 = 8 + 1 (myst overflow) = 9
Econ 4 - 1 + x (ST) = ~5+
Martial 7{9} = 7{~10} + unknown martial from ST integration.
Diplo 10 - 6 = 4
Myst unchanged = 15
wealth 9 - x (periodic status damage, 1-3) = ~8 at highest.

GP + Megaproject Policy + Secondary WM
Total GP = 1 (ours) + ~ 3 (iirc) provinces.
Art 9 - 4 = 5
Econ 4 - 4 - 1 = 0 = N/A provinces won't go below 1

Total GP = 1 (ours) + 2 (provinces)
Art 9 - 3 = 6 + 1 (myst overflow) = 7
Econ 4 - 3 = 1 + ~2 actions dedicated to raising econ, iirc. Will end up ~ 5.
Wealth 9 - x (periodic status damage, 1-3) = ~8 at highest.
Other stats the same.

IntM-ST + Balanced Policy + WM - TH:
Diplo 10 - 6 = 4
Econ 4 + x from ST absorption + 4 from econ action (policy favored = necessary) = at minimum 8.
Martial 7{9} -> ~7{10} (8/3 = 2.6 repeating = 3). + unknown martial income from stallions.
Art 9 + 1 = 10
Other stats dependent on province choices. IIRC, will not raise martial.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Main] Grand Palace x2
[X] [Secondary] Influence Subordinate
-[X] Stallion Tribes
 
[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2
 
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