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Paths of Civilization

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Ok, I've done an analysis of what we should expect to happen if we don't change to Balanced this turn assuming we take a Stability hit from the climate.

Starting Econ: 11
-2 Megaproject
-2 Megaproject
-2 True Cities
-1 Improve Festival
-3 Climate
+6 Expand Economy (provinces)
+2 Refugees
Ending Econ: 9

Starting Stability: 3
-1 Climate
+1 Improve Festival
Ending Stability: 3

In the mid-turn, we'll get a reaction vote. If we choose Expand Economy, this is what'll happen in the next main turn:
Starting Econ: 13
-2 Megaproject
-2 Megaproject
-2 Megaproject (province)
-2 Megaproject (province)
-3 Climate
+2 refugees
+2 Secondary Expand Economy (province)
+2? Secondary Expand Economy
(The one in question marks depends on whether or not we can automatically switch policy in the mid-turn.)
Ending Econ: 6-8

All in all, we'll be safe. There are a few variables, such as whether or not we take a stability hit from the climate this turn or whether or not the policy switch will be free, but even so, we've got a safe amount of wiggle room to move in. Completing the megaproject next turn is still well within the cards.
 
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Andres110 said:
Completing the megaproject next turn is still well within the cards.
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Sounds good.

Do we have a tentative consensus on doing another mega project afterward? Subject to the actual effects of this one, of course.

Narratively I like the idea of doing the Census first, like a headcount after escaping the crisis, but apparently that benefits from the Palace. Do people think we could do both at once?
 
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ThrawnCA said:
Sounds good.

Do we have a tentative consensus on doing another mega project afterward? Subject to the actual effects of this one, of course. Narratively I like the idea of doing the Census first, like a headcount after escaping the crisis, but apparently that benefits from the Palace. Do people think we could do both at once?
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We'll have enough Diplomacy by then to integrate the Stallion Tribes so we should probably go ahead and take care of that situation before it becomes a problem. Then we might want to build the palace while aiming for a golden age.
 
Potato and Chip said:
We'll have enough Diplomacy by then to integrate the Stallion Tribes so we should probably go ahead and take care of that situation before it becomes a problem. Then we might want to build the palace while aiming for a golden age.
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We need to get the palace before we integrate anyone. Our administration is straining under its current load.
 
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Academia Nut said:
Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes or Hatriver can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
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Andres110 said:
We need to get the palace before we integrate anyone. Our administration is straining.
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Why? Integrating a March doesn't increase our centralization.
 
Potato and Chip said:
Why? Integrating a March doesn't increase our centralization.
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Narratively, though, the Stallions are a big mouthful that will be quite tough to chew. They've been semi-independent for hundreds of years, and many of them probably like it that way. It's almost surprising that we even have the option to integrate them any more, and I don't expect it to be a routine action.
 
Potato and Chip said:
Why? Integrating a March doesn't increase our centralization.
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Narrative my good man.

Think about it:

We had not directly administrated them, ever. What happens when we are suddenly sticking our fingers in to their system?

Also they are huge and have at least one different value, so expect some strain there.

They also are quite distant and kinda poorly connected so difficulties doing things efficiently. Like our universal food system.

Basically I expect them to be the source of some necessary but difficult problems.
 
Before we integrate the Stallion Tribes, we also need a way to bleed off the excess Martial. We could found another mercenary company, but that would take us down to -2 Wealth per turn, which is quite unsafe. Our best bet is probably to set up a trading post and do Support Subordinate (very useful, since the only places we can put down a TP are in risky/dangerous places), which may drop Martial down enough that we won't go over after integrating the Stallions.

EDIT: *facepalm* Or we can set up another March. Bleeds Martial and gives us continued protection from nomads.
 
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Andres110 said:
Before we integrate the Stallion Tribes, we also need a way to bleed off the excess Martial. We could found another mercenary company, but that would take us down to -2 Wealth per turn, which is quite unsafe. Our best bet is probably to set up a trading post and do Support Subordinate (very useful, since the only places we can put down a TP are in risky/dangerous places), which may drop Martial down enough that we won't go over after integrating the Stallions.

EDIT: *facepalm* Or we can set up another March. Bleeds Martial and gives us continued protection from nomads.
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We could also send stuff to Greenshore or West Wall.

I'd think we really only need to drop something in the range of 3 to 4 points.


Setting up another march sounds like a narrative poor idea.
What would be doing? Moving the military minded and also the rough and tumble(not necessarily inclusive) to the new march. Deferring the problem for another couple of centuries. Which is a good solution but I wonder if it is the best.

E: Also depending on how this goes we might be laying the roots to turning the Heaven Hawks into Ymaryn March Number 4.
 
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Andres110 said:
Before we integrate the Stallion Tribes, we also need a way to bleed off the excess Martial. We could found another mercenary company, but that would take us down to -2 Wealth per turn, which is quite unsafe. Our best bet is probably to set up a trading post and do Support Subordinate (very useful, since the only places we can put down a TP are in risky/dangerous places), which may drop Martial down enough that we won't go over after integrating the Stallions.

EDIT: *facepalm* Or we can set up another March. Bleeds Martial and gives us continued protection from nomads.
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how about we expand and make a new province it not only reduces cent but also increases our stat limits.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Anyway, let's hope this forest is fixed soon, and we can do Palace + Census + overrun the empty lands :)
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Palace. Census. Kawaii!
Palace. Census. Kawaii!
Palace. Census. Kawaii!

ThrawnCA said:
It's called "The Button", "Exterminatus", or similar things, and it's the Godzilla option that we never ever want to press. Except you left out a policy switch to Offensive.

It would likely do horrible things to our social values, not to mention the Stability hit, and I don't know what narrative effects.

Besides, the existing forces are already overkill.
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I submit another name: Demonic Meggido.

pbluekan said:
Hey, dillweeds, seriously, we need to vote for a policy change. As it stands we are trying to do too much and we desperately need the Econ and forests that balanced or expansion will provide.
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Dude. Rude.


Lilithium said:
"I once had to put together a huge vase that only boasted about how much better the Ymaryn were than everyone else, but done in the point of view of outsiders. It was maybe the most pretentious and self masturbatory thing I've ever been made to translate."
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*thought you were going one way*

*is sad you went another*


Lilithium said:
The spiders will be happski to know this.

I must tell them.
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Pfft! Pictures of cute spiders?

Reader of all said:
how about we expand and make a new province it not only reduces cent but also increases our stat limits.
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Same problem as the march in a different form. New territory strains our admin structures.
 
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Abby Normal said:
With maxed stability, restoration is basically balanced, minus the law bonus...which is equal in worth to the secondary we'd need to spend to switch, and the alternatives are either:
-don't send a war mission, and have the stallions desiring independence just that little bit more, at a time when the diplo and action needed to integrate them are very valuable. (And possible give up on the chance to evolve lord's loyalty, though i don't think thats likely in this case)
-send a war mission as well as the policy switch, losing out on a megaproject action and another secondary action equivalent
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You're double counting the policy switch in this case.
Edit: Unless you meant losing out on the megaproject progress and a secondary action equivalent being what is needed to bump a secondary to a main.

Case Double Megaproject + War: 2 Megaproject progress, war mission and 4-5 provincial actions. Only get a Kicked [Sec] Proclaim Glory (upgrades to Main) if we lose a stability. No festivals unless we lose 2. Proclaim Glory costs Art.

Case Double Megaproject + Switch: 2 Megaproject Progress, 5 provincial actions. Guaranteed Law Kick. No war.

Case Single Megaproject + War + Switch: 1 Megaproject Progress, 1 war mission, 5 provincial actions. Guaranteed Law Kick.

Bonus Cases
Case Double Megaproject + Steward Kick + War: 3 Megaproject Progress, 1 War mission, 5 provincial actions since Proclaim Glory gets kicked. No festival kick unless we lose another stability. Very low on Art. Potentially complete megaproject (8/8-12? progress)

Case Single Megaproject + War + Steward Kick + Switch: 2 Megaproject Progress, 1 War mission, 5 provincial actions. Guaranteed Law Kick

There's also one more consideration. If we end up having to change policies to Balanced next turn at a cost of 1 secondary action.
Since we're greedy for megaproject progress:

For the ones that have a switch, add 2 Megaproject progress + 1 Secondary + 5 provincial actions.
For the ones that haven't switched yet, add 2 Megaproject progress + 5 provincial actions.

We currently have 7 art. [Main] Proclaim Glory costs 3 Art.

Case double + war: 4 progress, war, 9-10 provincial actions, Costs 4-7 art depending on Proclaim Glory.
Case double + switch: 4 progress, 1 secondary, 10 provincial actions, no war. Costs 4 art
Case single + war + switch: 3 progress, 1 war, 10 provincial actions. Costs 3 Art
Case double + steward + war: 5 progress, 1 war, 10 provincial actions. Costs 8 Art. Uhh. Maybe too expensive so we probably can't double the second turn.
Case single + steward + war + switch: 4 progress, 1 war, 10 provincial actions. Costs 4 art.

One of the better reasons to switch is because the provinces are probably going to Kick Proclaim Glory, which we definitely do not want due to our low Art. But hey, maybe we get lucky and we lose enough stability to get a Double Main Festival and Proclaim Glory (Proclaim Glory x2 + Main Festival + Law Main Festival) thanks to our Heroic Admin ordering. Then again, the festivals cost Econ.
 
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[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main] Sacred Forest Renewal x2
In hopes that the megaproject will be completed next turn.
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
Let us bond in the Ymaryn ways of old, beating down uppity nomads.
[X][Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
While dominating pilgrimage would be a boon, the narratives have subtly hinted at a few problems and I don't want to stress our current system any more than the centralization and hierarchy already are.
 
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