That value about interdependencies also sounds useful. Thinking about societies more like systems could perhaps open up an action to think about and improve our laws so less stuff requires direct managing by our king, thus also lowering centralisation.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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The inter-dependencies sounds like a horizontal evolution and vertical evolution of a Loyalty trait line, though not necessarily Lord's Loyalty.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
Voting this for now, at least until/unless AN answers my question on the Prog choice and what it represents.
I really want the glassworks, but this vote seems to be about where our hero gets her power base from...and i'd much rather her go to the already powerful dye and mining guilds for that power than go to the explicitly incredibly small and weak glassworker guild, since the former is much more likely to get us what sounds like a triple-stat hero (martial/mysticism/admin)* as king, not to mention it would hopefully help push back on gender norms.
*or at least a martial hero with the other 2 stats at "good" or something instead of average.
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
Voting this for now, at least until/unless AN answers my question on the Prog choice and what it represents.
I really want the glassworks, but this vote seems to be about where our hero gets her power base from...and i'd much rather her go to the already powerful dye and mining guilds for that power than go to the explicitly incredibly small and weak glassworker guild, since the former is much more likely to get us what sounds like a triple-stat hero (martial/mysticism/admin)* as king, not to mention it would hopefully help push back on gender norms.
*or at least a martial hero with the other 2 stats at "good" or something instead of average.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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If she has Martial, Mysticism and Admin at Heroic she is literally the Second Coming of Gwygoytha. Like holy shit broken.
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I wonder what a symphony+interdependence trait would be named Orchestra, Unity, Synchronicity hmm an interesting trait to think about
Technically speaking, with Honorable Death and the calf sacrifices of Sacred Warding, Moloch Calls is not strictly incompatible with our concept of Greater Justice, or in direct conflict with other traits.Trying for Moloch my good sir?
Hmm, it seems it might be fuseable with Lord's Loyalty or Symphony in that case.
Sounded like a divergent evolution of Harmony to me.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Opera or Orchestra.
That was my other thought, especially with the industriousness trait which I think is equivalent to ours in workaholicness.
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Soo...even more pressure to keep Centralisation high and have tons of trails? That moves Palace higher in the queue.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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Honestly, that's why i'm a little skeptical of it, but she's clearly at least skilled in all three
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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It's even worse because I think Gwy was actually Heoric Martial/Admin with Good Mysticism, so Rulwyna will be even worse.Honestly, that's why i'm a little skeptical of it, but she's clearly at least skilled in all three
I can hear the cries of the Negaverse from here...
Such sweet music. *pleased sigh*
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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- He/Him
I mean, i am thinking she's probably Heroic Martial/Heroic Mysticism/Exceptional Admin or Heroic Martial/Exceptional Mysticism/Good Admin or something...hence why i'm really sad that glassworks is winning and she won't have as strong a power base to become king
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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She may not need it. I mean... *wiggles eyebrows* look at that stat spread. Mmmmm smexy.I mean, i am thinking she's probably Heroic Martial/Heroic Mysticism/Exceptional Admin or Heroic Martial/Exceptional Mysticism/Good Admin or something...hence why i'm really sad that glassworks is winning and she won't have as strong a power base to become king
Can someone tell me why we would possibly want a second true city right now? As I understand it, the main bonus granted by true cities is increased Econ spending -> Econ Expansion recycling. But from what I can tell, we have MORE than enough Econ Expansion as it is, hovering near the cap where we would start losing our current true city. So... why would we want to pay for another one right now?
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
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I mean, i am thinking she's probably Heroic Martial/Heroic Mysticism/Exceptional Admin or Heroic Martial/Exceptional Mysticism/Good Admin or something...hence why i'm really sad that glassworks is winning and she won't have as strong a power base to become king
Why do you think dyes equal a strong powerbase?
The invention of alternative and cheap dyes would put serious pressure on the dye industry, and provoke a good amount of controversy. She may make more enemies than friends.
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Seeing as changing only one thing doesn't work.
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
BungieONI
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It's because she is convincing the dye makers to expand their products, thus empowering them, thus they help her when they realize the favor she did them.
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It would if she becomes a direct competitor what the art patronage vote does is have her convince the dye merchants to adopt her new method therefore becoming an ally of the miners who produce the raw materials for the stuff and dye merchants.
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Wut
That's the exact opposite way of doing things. The way to spread the knowledge that you need to use glass to contain vitriol is to give them vitriol. Giving them glass just gives them glass with zero connection to vitriol.
We give them vitriol to use as dye, we tell them they need glass to better contain it.
We don't give them vitriol, it never spreads. We don't get any dye out of this. People just think she is in support of glass.
Because it gives them another dye to use against foreign trade markets. Which is becoming a problem
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
This was recently addressed:
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
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I mean, yeah, but she's also a woman in an increasingly patriarchal society, with a mom who pissed off those in power, and i think even though we've got de facto nobles, we're still in the "don't like having direct parent-child succession" stage; we like "Parent from clan 1, son from clan 2, grandson from clan 1" at most.
Not to mention it sounds like unless we have her convince teh existing Dye guild to use these new dyes/fixitives, we're going to be explicitly pissing off one of the strongest (dye is our biggest trade good other than salt, but salt isn't much of a 'skilled trade' thing i think?) guilds...or actually two of them, because the potters guild is likely to be upset at us helping the glassworkers compete with them...i give even odds for her becoming king with glassworkers at best, and maybe 2/3 to 3/4 chance with art patronage...again
Because they're one of our strongest trade goods, and we've been told for most of the quest how everyone loves our tyrian purple dye (which was also incredibly valuable in real life)? And i mean, yeah, thats the point i'm going for? my understanding of art patronage is we're working with the dye guild, so that they decide that the new dyes work with tyrian purple instead of competing:
At least to me, it sounds like the vote choice right now is whether we want the bold bit in the last quoted section, or the italics bit, and i personally think the bold bit is less immediately useful for tech, but much more useful for getting Rulwyna her shot at being king.
Somewhat, but it fits our playstyle, so it's under things we'd already benefit from.
Not really.I mean, i am thinking she's probably Heroic Martial/Heroic Mysticism/Exceptional Admin or Heroic Martial/Exceptional Mysticism/Good Admin or something...hence why i'm really sad that glassworks is winning and she won't have as strong a power base to become king
Art Patronage - Support from the Dyers, possibly splitting them into Painters as a fork. They have influence over the Traders, and the Weavers. They are obligated to the Fishers and Traders
Glass - Support from the Glassmakers. They have influence over the Dyers, and more trades as they find uses for glassware. They put pressure on the Potters. They are obligated to the Ashers(for charcoal), but no other prior dependencies.
Basically the Dyers are old and established, but that means that she'd be in competition for their attention with other old established factions. The Glassmakers are new, but that also means that she has their undivided loyalties.
Mechanically, it means that ALL actions are slot positive or neutral, allowing us to take greater advantage of the Baby Boom, but also burning it out faster. Valuable for going on Defense policy though.
...but we'd get to second True City in the natural course of things pretty soon I figure. Baby Boom + Balanced would do it rapidly unless we spam New Settlements/conquests.
Right now, we are at max Econ and close to capping out Econ Expansion as well. Do we really need more actions that are slot positive/neutral? I expect that to just burn out our True City.
Except they can't. There's no glass to use beyond small experimental projects. If we push on the Dye side, then because of how lucrative it is, they'd start the processes with pottery containers, which in turn means that the Potters will be pushing AGAINST the Glassmakers because the development will be eating into the Potters market share AFTER giving the Dyers a lot of use for pottery to make the new dyes.
You know, the same Potters running assassinations to try to stop the idea of Glass because they saw a threat?
Second True City would probably shut down a few turns after it forms, yes.
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Only so much administrative strain we can realistically take in this age.