That's one job I think chariots or even the old war wagons might be better at. Dismounting a horse in combat and remounting is non-trivial!
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
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The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Same as yours it goes from Econ all the way down to Mysticism then back.
And I intended Wealth to show up twice, which is why I said it was broken AF, because I am having difficulty figuring out how it would work but this is the only thing I can think of.
I ain't of the mind to tease it all out besides throwing out suggestions though. Too much brain power spent last night.
Less with that and more that it's a slippery, self reinforcing slope towards systematic inequalities, which then leads to systematic abuses, with nobody along the way seeing anything wrong.
And the only way to undo it is the ones who BENEFIT from the inequalities reducing their own power or violent disruption.
One of the benefits of a long continuous mode of government is you can avoid many of the horrendous deliberately abusive practices, adopted as coping mechanisms for social collapse.
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My art flows to Wealth, diplomacy, then Mysticism. Econ doesn't come into play until later.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
I didn't realize that "attempt to finish your mother's work" has such a lead.
I'll mention a couple things:
First off, this option essentially has us abandoning the war effort to our dad (who she already mentioned is getting on in age) and is essentially severing contact with the new martial network she made. It also loses us the chance to develop Horseback riding (the new way she'll likely have forged).
Also, your all making assumptions by believing it to be gunpowder. We don't know what she was working on.
The daughter can take up her mother's work after the war is over. Besides, if it is gunpowderthis will give us time to research and develop it.
I'll mention a couple things:
First off, this option essentially has us abandoning the war effort to our dad (who she already mentioned is getting on in age) and is essentially severing contact with the new martial network she made. It also loses us the chance to develop Horseback riding (the new way she'll likely have forged).
Also, your all making assumptions by believing it to be gunpowder. We don't know what she was working on.
The daughter can take up her mother's work after the war is over. Besides, if it is gunpowderthis will give us time to research and develop it.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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A few things.
Unus. We are not assuming it is gunpowder. Most likely it is naptha or other flammable things. We hope it is gunpowder and that's it.
Duo. It is an assumption that it will be possible for us to revisit it after the war.
Tres. We will not lose horseback riding. We already have Horse Couriers, that is here to stay because it is is so useful it isn't even funny.
Quattuor. She called it the safest for her father, so I am assuming we are pulling out with what we have, which will involve beating the current opposition and then moving back to our expanded borders.
Quinque. Why should she sever all martial contact? She is going into seclusion, but she will need social contact and she is a warrior. At best I consider it reduced.
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- Location
- Germany
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You don't do it in combat; you use the horses to get to a good position, and leave before the enemy can hit you back. In theory.
- Location
- Canada
I would also raise the point that beyond military applications, larger horses can be beneficial in logistics (as we've already seen) and possibly even agriculture (larger horses = more land plowed, more grains milled, etc). Hopefully we make that connection and horses become something that can serve as more than military transportation. Once that happens we might not need to rely on martial investments to further horse research (breeding? development? I don't even know what to call this).
In terms of weapons, I am not too concerned about the lack of a sword. Again, military tactics / training trumps technological advancements (in my opinion), especially when the difference is fairly trivial for us, an archery heavy nation. Up until now we'd been fighting against nomads, where archery can nullify their chariots and the spear can act as the melee weapon. I suspect something sword related might be popping up if we have a good roll in this war with the Hathtyn.
As for riding from a young age, that was one of my main concerns with giving the nomads horseback riding: it'd be something they do out of necessity, whereas we would have banned it had we not had the rodeos. All we can do is shore up the archery front and wait for the proper rolls.
True, although fighting against what is keeping our nation productive and able to rebound from war, disease and (not so much for us) famine is not an intuitive fight. I would argue that we are already on the slippery slope so to speak, and that at either end is not what we want. At the bottom, systematic patriarchy that effectively halves the available pool of talent; and at the top of the slope is a nation that requires (effectively) modern medicine and a bunch of social concepts and mores to maintain. While we could reach the peak now, I think it'll result in a lot more social turmoil than necessary. Instead, I think our current position on the colloquial hill is just fine, and that we will need to give it a few kicks back up every time it starts going back down (like now). However, this obsessive pursuit for the dissolution of the patriarchy I think is quite anachronistic and might cause more harm than good.
Her father has the war more than under control once the Ymaryn adapted to the tactics involved and then added ninjas. The material advantage is simply too great.
We already have horseback riding. It's an official tech, with girls working on it. It's simply too useful not to do it even out of war.
We aren't. We're amusing ourselves trying to figure out what it might be, but after putting all the context evidence together it's likely either primitive steam power(which would also explain the 'unnatural' burns if she was seared by hot steam escaping) or explosive compounds. Nothing else has enough yield.
The mother is currently still alive, if not necessarily for very long. If she's going to pick it up rather than do it over from scratch(keeping in mind that Lolwyna's notes may be about as comprehensible as her speech), odds are good that it'd be far harder.
- Location
- Brazil
[X] Attempt to finish her mother's work
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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On that note is it possible Lolwyna was messing with copper steam vessels? There is something niggling at me that copper had associations with fire in alchemy, as well as the idea that copper is a good heat conductor I think.
Yeah but if that's the objective you could use a wagon better. Remember our archers firing from a fixed position follow either Volley Strategy(which requires more archers than fit on horseback) or Blackbirds. Bus in a few dozen archers on horse drawn wagons, set up for volley and then ride away.
Different types of horse unfortunately. While larger horses shared common traits, you actually get significant divergence:
-Draft horse for farming.
--Overall shorter but broader build
--Bred for strength, stamina and resilience to disease
--Had poor running power
--Consumed sparse feed.
-Light Cavalry/Scouts/Racehorse
--Overall short and lean build, closest to a bigger wild pony.
--Bred for great speed with decent stamina, but lacking in raw strength
--Ate quite a lot for their size.
-Heavy cavalry/Warhorse(the type you fight from)
--Tall and broad build.
--Bred for great strength and adequate speed, but lacking in stamina. Warhorses were usually walked to battle, and mounted only when it was time to fight,, because they had the medieval equivalent of a fighter jet maintenance cycle. In exchange they could STILL gallop with a big dude with heavy armor on man and horse alike.
--Ate quite a lot for their size and they're HUGE.
Noting also that the more intense you make the breeding program the more inbreeding(meaning disease vulnerability, fertility loss) is going to happen to make it work
Not really all that obsessive, for all that some posters were highly motivated by the issue. The key part is to keep it from hitting the point where de facto has enough weight behind it to become de jure.
Copper would...probably burst pretty quickly.
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Points one and two stand.
For point three, you're missing the point. It's not that we're losing horseback riding forever, but that we're losing the opportunity to unlock it in this fight.
As for four and five, those are yet more assumptions. We have no idea if she's going to continue the fight in a organized manner before retreating, we don't know how many, if any, of her contacts will go with her, and we don't know how well she'll stay in contact with those who choose to stay behind to fight.
Ultimately, this is about opportunity:
Do you diplomatically try to tie closer ties with the Highland Kingdom (out of the hope of unlocking a new subordinate)?
Do you continue to fight on your own (out of the hope of unlocking Horsebackriding)?
Do you abandon the war and go back to the core region to continue your mother's research (out of the hope such a life turn will be worth it).
It's a judgement call, and I just think that no matter what she was on the breakthrough of it's not worth it to study it now. Let's distinguish ourself in the war first.
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? The couriers are already established.
You are assuming that's possible if still more time elapses.
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It is spreading beyond Valleyhome now, and while officially it isn't yet being used for anything other than a ration distribution system and officially backed weight and purity of silver for the traders, it is rapidly finding new uses.
This looks correct, yes.
[X] Begin diplomacy with the Highlanders
[X] Forge a new path of war
So. Seduce the prince and AWFUL HEREDITARY RULE FOREVER? I think not. First, the oligarchy of the Ymaryn are vastly more stable and powerful than the royal families of the Highlanders- and our girl's dad isn't really a political juggernaut, he's a popular war hero with fame backing rather than family.
So I am pretty damn skeptical of veekie's predictions the Highlanders will have a chance to muscle into Ymaryn politics, where producing glass gets a lot of people dead and we accidentally Highlander villages. It's like Egypt influencing Rome- it might get talked about, but there will never be a pharaoh of Egypt leading Rome, the avenues of power simply do not flow that way. After hundreds of years next to us and the village debacle I'd even say the Highlander royals know this-they aren't stupid. Husband or no, any prince married to a Ymaryn queen would be a prince-consort.
But AN did hint at a different relationship being possible soon- a relationship not of typical tributaries or vassals and one that didn't involve Metal Workers. I think that's an Alliance- against the Hathatyn, and potentially later against the Xoh empire. I think that's more valuable than gunpowder right now. We are NOT alike but we share many short-term and long-term goals.
'A new path of war'- well, that speaks for itself. I will point out that while fears of military rulers aren't without substance a military coup is pretty firmly against our values and wouldn't be that disastrous even if it occurred unless it somehow strangled player participation, which is unlikely.
The benefits of a military queen-to-be on the other hand are numerous. True cavalry seems the likely result and cavalry is Serious Business militarily speaking. There are other routes our maybe-hero could take and help regain some equality for women- but none likely to win as much fame or create a lasting tradition of women warriors.
As has been pointed out, horses will NOT grow bigger overnight so there is a big chance for a military role where women can participate. That's important because for all the pretty talk of equality military power lies at the base of all power- once given, it IS difficult to rescind.
[X] Forge a new path of war
So. Seduce the prince and AWFUL HEREDITARY RULE FOREVER? I think not. First, the oligarchy of the Ymaryn are vastly more stable and powerful than the royal families of the Highlanders- and our girl's dad isn't really a political juggernaut, he's a popular war hero with fame backing rather than family.
So I am pretty damn skeptical of veekie's predictions the Highlanders will have a chance to muscle into Ymaryn politics, where producing glass gets a lot of people dead and we accidentally Highlander villages. It's like Egypt influencing Rome- it might get talked about, but there will never be a pharaoh of Egypt leading Rome, the avenues of power simply do not flow that way. After hundreds of years next to us and the village debacle I'd even say the Highlander royals know this-they aren't stupid. Husband or no, any prince married to a Ymaryn queen would be a prince-consort.
But AN did hint at a different relationship being possible soon- a relationship not of typical tributaries or vassals and one that didn't involve Metal Workers. I think that's an Alliance- against the Hathatyn, and potentially later against the Xoh empire. I think that's more valuable than gunpowder right now. We are NOT alike but we share many short-term and long-term goals.
'A new path of war'- well, that speaks for itself. I will point out that while fears of military rulers aren't without substance a military coup is pretty firmly against our values and wouldn't be that disastrous even if it occurred unless it somehow strangled player participation, which is unlikely.
The benefits of a military queen-to-be on the other hand are numerous. True cavalry seems the likely result and cavalry is Serious Business militarily speaking. There are other routes our maybe-hero could take and help regain some equality for women- but none likely to win as much fame or create a lasting tradition of women warriors.
As has been pointed out, horses will NOT grow bigger overnight so there is a big chance for a military role where women can participate. That's important because for all the pretty talk of equality military power lies at the base of all power- once given, it IS difficult to rescind.
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BungieONI
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We literally can't unlock horseback riding units en mass beyond couriers which we already have.
Literally impossible. Our horses are not big enough for the kind of widespread thing you are talking about.
Point four is a logical assumption supported by this evidence.
Saying that she will not pull out in a sensible and organized fashion, when she is Heroic Martial or near Heroic Martial and her father is Heroic Martial, is a very dubious statement which I cannot hold as valid.
As to point five this is my weakest point I will acknowledge, because it is only an assumption based on my understanding of young adult human's behavior. They want close friends, and some of the closest friends are made on the battlefield. Those kinds of bonds don't just go away overnight or when they are let go to have different paths in life. It makes sense to me that she would bring along her closest companions, because I am sure some of them would like to live with their friends nearby. I also don't really care that much about the martial connections honestly. They are useful but I can stand them weakening even if we lose out a bit.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
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Rol-chan a best! I know that feeling too. So glad that being a proper father won, it even got us scale armor via over protective papa!
[X] Attempt to finish her mother's work
[X] Attempt to finish her mother's work
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Feeling flip floppy Godwinson?
I have pictures for you of fine footwear!
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
I'm not normally this indecisive, but this quest certainly has me feeling very indecisive or very decisive, with very little in-between.Feeling flip floppy Godwinson?
I have pictures for you of fine footwear!
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Heheheahaha I understand.
Have some footwear. Maybe you can wear them on your head.
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