Edit to say something useful: How would you prefer questions to be organized? I currently have a weird mix of direct quotes that AN replied to and smaller headings for other things. The direct quotes don't work very well in separating the WoG from each other.

I also haven't been editing the questions to condense them or cleaning them up. Not sure if people would rather have that or not.

There's also interactions that fall into more than one category but I've been sorting them as I see them based on which seems to be the more relevant category.
The way you are doing it is fine for now. Keeping interactions to the most relevant makes sense.

It's like Holy Crap useful! Thanks for doing it.

Possibly you may want organizational headers later?

Like <World Building> or the like.
 
Last edited:
Thank you!

Did you see that admin stuff I supplied from ctulhuslp's WoG Google doc, or did you already have it in there and I just missed it?
I got all of them in there after you copied them.

The way you are doing it is fine for now. Keeping interactions to the most relevant makes sense.

It's like Holy Crap useful! Thanks for doing it.

Possibly you may want organizational headers?

Like <World Building> or the like.
I was thinking of having world building/ a timeline (of the threadmarks/votes) in a different post. Trying to get mostly mechanics in this one.

I'm perfectly fine with someone else dealing with the world building though. The mechanics post takes a ton of work. Sometimes AN has these single word/sentence answers that make searching for them that much harder.

I'll admit to being biased enough to put Undiscovered Mechanics at the very top but I do want to unlock some of those.
 
I got all of them in there after you copied them.


I was thinking of having world building/ a timeline (of the threadmarks/votes) in a different post. Trying to get mostly mechanics in this one.

I'm perfectly fine with someone else dealing with the world building though. The mechanics post takes a ton of work. Sometimes AN has these single word/sentence answers that make searching for them that much harder.

I'll admit to being biased enough to put Undiscovered Mechanics at the very top but I do want to unlock some of those.
I was actually puttering about with a Timeline, need it for my sociological examination, so I can do that. It'll be interesting cataloging the switch from Pure Narrative to Semi-Narrative to Mostly-Mechanics that we have now.
 
Thanks. Sorry if it came out as abrasive or whatnot, I can be pretty thoughtless in my choice of words.



Yep, part of my post bolded by you was meant to be an implicit threat.

But I have to disagree about "Starvation, death and exile is not on the table". See, they are families of the previous enemies, so clearly they should be trusted less. And if they do not agree to marry your guys, well, Northern provinces are the ones where half-exile is closer to slavery, so we can safely assume that Chiefs there will be more active in looking for an excuse to half-exile people, and new arrivals which behave *so suspiciously* are pretty acceptable target.

Cue scenarios like "local warrior sees nice girl, she refuses to marry him, warrior tells chief that she made some sort of exile-worthy shit, as warrior is more trusted than families of recent enemies and we have no judicial system, he is trusted, and she is presented a choice between exile and warrior oh-so-graciously saving her. All the while local Ymaryn community sides with the warrior because, again, in these times it's his word against hers". Or other coercive tactics.

So...all in all - yes, such things are implicit and not explicit, which is a real progress, I do not deny that, but I have no reason to hope that starvation, death or exile are not on the table, in their implicit ways.
Okay, need to work on phrasing there, because full exile is indeed not on the table. Half-exile is a literally shitty job which IS on the table.

I.e. there is implicit pressure, but it's a choice between:
-Marry and be the wife of a successful warrior, with the luxuries and privileges of the post, their children adopted and ensured a future as warriors.

-Don't marry and be a half exile, tasked to transport nightsoil, their children likely to be stuck carrying nightsoil.

NOT on the table is:
-Don't marry and be exiled. Exile is a punishment equivalent to the death penalty for us, and gets the same kind of oversight as that.

Threat of suffering, not threat of death. Still skeevy, but differences is substantial
I'll be honest and say that I do not know if I believe this. It hasn't been an issue so this aspect of policy mechanics hasn't really been revealed.

@veekie Religious authority might be one option, if they have a trait or have performed specific options that would allow their RA score to more heavily impact the leadership of the TH. It would also match with the TS' opposition on the basis of conversion to their gods. However, I don't believe that they're dominant in Pilgrimage. E: Yep, they have the same formatting as the TS and we're "significant."
They don't need to be Dominant, just strong enough to leverage on the Thunder Horse with other factors, which as far as our information goes, has basically no religious infrastructure of note.
"avoided gaining slots" is pretty much the opposite of what you said earlier, that we had too few Econ for the Defensive policy due to having too few slots. The latter implies that we were restrained from getting Econ by how few we had. This is simply not true.

We've been having issues with the former; the latter has never caused us to avoid gaining Econ, merely prompted us to take actions that would open more slots. In the case of not being able to do the Defensive policy, it's because we spent Econ and, moreover and as at the time you pointed out as a reason to not do the Defensive policy IIRC, were worried we'd have too many slots.
Urgh, stupid terminology problems:
-Economy - The bit we spend.
-Economy Slot - The wriggle room to expand into before overcrowding.
-Economy Slot Capacity - The wriggle room to gain slots in before True City is lost.

So, whats the problem previously?
With our current configuration, we can gain up to 8 Economy Slots in one turn between Province and King if every action spends some Econ due to having 6 Secondaries and 2 Mains.
Additionally, during the Mid Turn we now get 2 more Main actions, potentially spending another 2.

This means that without locking in a Main Expand Economy or a Baby Boom, we can go from 0 Slots Left to 10 Slots in one turn, which hits the 1 city capacity limit without even deliberately building settlements or making Black Soil.

With one of the two, we have a margin of 4, which buys us enough time to reach the next turn and make a decision.
With both of the two, we face the opposite problem, we MUST spend econ heavily to regenerate the slots used by their consumption.

So mathwise, we must try to keep our Economy + Economy Slot total value between Econ Slot Capacity and 2x Econ Slot Capacity, if we want to ensure freedom to take actions without economic concerns for more than 1 turn at a time(which means forcing lots of policy changes when not on Balanced).

The bigger the threshold, the more leeway. Since our Economy cap is 14 at present, we would then want Econ Slot Capacity to be about 21-28 if we want maximum freedom of choice...though this is an ideal which is not really practical to attain without sacrificing in other areas.
 
With our current configuration, we can gain up to 8 Economy Slots in one turn between Province and King if every action spends some Econ due to having 6 Secondaries and 2 Mains.
10, actually, if we're going all-in on extended projects.

5 or 6 per turn for a few turns running is the more interesting demand, though - for running an econ-cost megaproject with province support.
 
10, actually, if we're going all-in on extended projects.

5 or 6 per turn for a few turns running is the more interesting demand, though - for running an econ-cost megaproject with province support.
So 12 in all told if we include the Mid Turn too.

Eeesh. We be broken.
 
15 + 1 - 4 = 12.
Defensive =
Main X + 1
Main Y + 1
Secondary Z + 1
= 15
Desired option was Study Tailings + Stability + ??. Tailings would have driven us to 16, if done as a main.

Avoidable but problematic. Also depends on whether the province wants to avoid popping the city or not.

We should aqueduct Redcoast at some point.

E: Actually, I might be wrong. Idk. I'm so confused. idc. AN plz
 
Last edited:
15 + 1 - 4 = 12.
Defensive =
Main X + 1
Main Y + 1
Secondary Z + 1
= 15
Desired option was Study Tailings + Stability + ??. Tailings would have driven us to 16, if done as a main.

Avoidable but problematic. Also depends on whether the province wants to avoid popping the city or not.

We should aqueduct Redcoast at some point.
Hmm.

On aqueducting Redcoast should we do it before or after we do the Grand Docks there? I figure that any coastal town we do the Grand Docks in might actually be on it's way to true city status rather quickly.

I'm also slightly preferential to making Blackmouth in Blackriver the place for the Grand Dock.
 
Hmm.

On aqueducting Redcoast should we do it before or after we do the Grand Docks there? I figure that any coastal town we do the Grand Docks in might actually be on it's way to true city status rather quickly.

I'm also slightly preferential to making Blackmouth in Blackriver the place for the Grand Dock.
before... probably. It would make getting rid of sewage easiest. Or we could just do both at once. Megaproject + aqueduct secondary + megaproject switch -> Megaproject + Main Aqueduct -> secondary aqueduct. That way it's likely the output/effect of the aqueduct will be timed as suitably as possible.

Then again, though, since the effluent is just running into pits and a marsh it won't really impact the docks. In which case we should do the aqueduct first to accommodate the inflowing workforce and make them desire to stay.
 
Last edited:
We should just set our policy to infrastructure then use that timeframe to settle the new spots on the Redhills and double main new trails for the non-linear effects it will have. In fact I also want to double main annual festival as well since we still have that special.
 
Integrating the Western Wall would provide both the econ needed to fund infrastructure and the additional province we need to get another provincial action.
 
We should just set our policy to infrastructure then use that timeframe to settle the new spots on the Redhills and double main new trails for the non-linear effects it will have. In fact I also want to double main annual festival as well since we still have that special.
Where do you get that we still have the festival special? It's not listed anywhere.


Integrating the Western Wall would provide both the econ needed to fund infrastructure and the additional province we need to get another provincial action.
Thinking about it on the map, I think we can integrate the Near Western Wall without too much defensive exposure/risk, since the new province is still mostly shielded by the Stallions and the rest of West Wall.


before... probably. It would make getting rid of sewage easiest. Or we could just do both at once. Megaproject + aqueduct secondary + megaproject switch -> Megaproject + Main Aqueduct -> secondary aqueduct. That way it's likely the output/effect of the aqueduct will be timed as suitably as possible.

Then again, though, since the effluent is just running into pits and a marsh it won't really impact the docks. In which case we should do the aqueduct first to accommodate the inflowing workforce and make them desire to stay.
Before the Dock then definitely so the workforce doesn't have too many problems. Not sure about both at once. I'd be more confident to do that once Sacred Forest becomes our Second True City.
 
Would it be better to do The Census slowly or as fast as possible?
I... have no real idea. My gut instinct is that it doesn't really matter, however, some thought tells me to get it done as fast as possible so our population growth/fluctuation doesn't mess with it.
 
Last edited:
Horse daughter
[X][Child] Actually be a proper father
[X][Main] Study Alchemy
[X][Secondary] War Mission- Hathatyn
[X][Secondary] War Mission- Hathatyn x2

Provinces – [Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Study Stars, [Sec] New Trails, [Sec] Study Metal
Stallions – [Main] Build Chariots, [Sec] Build Watchtowers, [Sec] Trade Mission - North
Western – [Main] Build Wall, [Main] New Settlement, [Sec] Build Wall
Greenshore – [Main] Expand Econ, [Sec] Trade Mission – Metal Workers, [Sec] Trade Mission – Trelli
Hatriver – [Main] Expand Warriors, [Main] War Mission – Hathatyn

Rulhuthyn stared down into his own heart and came to the conclusion that if he abandoned his daughter, if he could not accept the consequences of his own folly, then he was unworthy of being king. He would raise Rulwyna as best he could, even as he tried to deal with all the problems of a king at war...

Also, now that he thought about it, he should make sure that Lolwyna was given more resources so that she would be occupied and wouldn't be tempted to follow him south. He had been enough of a fool around her as it was, no need to tempt himself further.

Years Later...

The fighting in Hatriver was distinctly unpleasant, in that there were two modes: infiltrating small parties through the hills, and straight, brutal linear fighting through the valleys. The People generally exceeded the Hathatyn in skill of the first, and had superior equipment to exceed their foes in the second, but it was not a pleasant experience. In large part that was because the People had built their forces for generations around chasing nomads, on maneuver and counter-maneuver to force too fast moving forces to actually come into contact favourably. The strategic pushing contests of the Hathatyn were foreign to the people, and the leaders of the Hatriver warriors suffered for that. Had the king not shown up in force it was likely that they would have lost a considerable number of warriors in the first few clashes, but as it was superior leadership and bolstered numbers kept catastrophe at bay, and the king began to push the enemy back, even as the Highlanders ate away at their flanks.

Somewhere in the grind of it all, a new sight was seen upon the battlefields. Long hair bleached white with lime and then dyed red with ochre became a banner of oncoming death and destruction, soon accompanied by whistling and shrieking war cries and the thunder of hooves.

Whenever the People and the Hathatyn clashed and the warriors of the People started to falter, the mad teenage girl would come with orders from the elderly but still vigorous king, to help turn the tide of battle. And she truly was mad, having somehow got in on the insane practice of horseback riding early, her size meaning that when on one of the horses that had been successfully conditioned to not go insane when a human was on its back she could actually ride for extended periods without exhausting the animal quickly. There were a number of other young, small women who had discovered that the king was extremely glad to have these sorts of people available to quickly run priority messages - a single horse was simply faster and more agile than a chariot, so while fighting remained a fantasy, the decision to allow for rodeos was already paying enormous dividends. While it was fairly obvious that the king wasn't exactly happy with his daughter running towards active battles, but her presence both turned many individual actions from losses to some form of success, and many claimed that she was an incarnation of a primordial entity like Gwy or Bytah and to attempt to rein her in was foolish anyway. Not yet an adult and she had soaked up the lessons of her father and his advisors like a sponge, and was already able to make cogent arguments in battle, policy, and theology, even if she wasn't able to win the majority of these arguments.

Yet.

What the king did try to do was ensure that she was as well protected as possible, which given her actions as a horse courier meant that the king was constantly trying to find the biggest, strongest horses for her to ride so that they wouldn't be tired when he made her and her horses wear the strongest armour that could be made available. He was constantly annoying the smiths, asking for ever better scales of iron to drape across his wild daughter, and they sort of kept up, but ultimately the challenge was for the most part beyond them. Compromises had to be made, but many were interested in the advances being made.

Honour of Elites -> Best of the Best
Whether in war or in art, the People want only the best, damn the costs
Pros: Increase Martial gain from raising elite units, bonus Art and Mysticism for certain actions
Cons: Increased potential Martial loss in fighting, increased social stratification, increased costs

The small, sharp world that Rulwyna had lived in was abruptly opened up one day when one of her "sister" riders arrived from the core territories with urgent news for the king, and her.

"Sir, I have news of Lolwyna," the young woman said upon being admitted to the command tent where they were stationed, drawing the attention of white haired father and red haired daughter.

Taking the roll of parchment handed to him, Rulhuthyn quickly read over it before his eyes went wide and he just sort of stopped. Not died or collapsed, just sort of sat down and looked off into the distance. Taking the scroll from her father's limp fingers, Rulwyna looked at it and found news that her mother had done something in her studies that had resulted in either the gods smiting her or demons getting loose, because the compound where she worked looked like it had been struck by lightning repeatedly. The woman herself was barely alive at the time of the messenger leaving, burned in strange and terrible ways by the magic she delved too deeply into. Whether she was still alive, or would live long enough for them to get back, was unknown but doubtful.

As she finished reading the report, Rulhythyn said numbly, "We she go see her..."

Rulwyna frowned at this. Her mother was something of a stranger to her, having only been encountered a few times in trips back to Valleyhome from Hatriver, the older woman barely more than a stranger most of the time. Their most intimate interaction had been a theological argument over whether or not male energy was fundamentally 'hot' or 'dry' and how in the reorientation of elements she was conceiving this would arrange masculine and feminine properties. Both agreed that fire was a male element, but beyond that it was all argumentation that only priests could keep up with. As such, Rulwyna couldn't even say that she was particularly moved by the news, other than perhaps a sense of loss at the fact that she would never have the sort of relationship with her mother that most others could claim.

Actually, more pointedly, she noticed just how old her father seemed at this moment. Over sixty now, most days he remained the vigorous warrior and leader of men, but in this moment he was a lost old man, filled with regret and lacking direction.

Rulwyna nodded and said to him, "The rainy season comes soon anyway, the campaigning season will end and it will be up to the Blackbirds to do the fighting for the rest of the year anyway."

Even as she got the advisors around them to begin helping and sorting out the preparations, Rulwyna's mind was racing with thoughts of what to do next. Born with a naturally keen mind and raised in an environment that had sharpened it immensely, she had the feeling that her father's days were numbered and that she should start seriously considering her options. The gods seemed displeased with her father, bringing unstable but torrential rains that had ruined fields and crops and brought strife to farms and cities, although not as terrible as ancient legends said they could become. Among the many causes for this displeasure was most certainly her father's continued sponsorship of her mother and the impropriety of it, which put her at the intersection of a number of her parent's enemies hit list. She had figured out that she needed her own power against these sorts of actors before she was ten, and knew that when her father passed she would mostly be on her own.

Unbeknownst to him, at some point she had stopped riding just for the thrill of it and to help him and the People, but also to build contacts and relationships with warriors. If needed, she could pull a few strings and turn this war to her advantage, blazing her own path forward. She obviously wouldn't start off in charge of anything, but she knew that she would make a great symbol to those she fought with. Then there was the news of the youngest son of the king of the Highlanders, who had been assigned the task of holding off the Hathatyn and had managed to reverse some of their gains. A "diplomatic mission" to the Highlanders could be arranged, and new allies against her enemies could be found, especially given how much they had in common with fighting the Hathatyn. And if she got really desperate, she could also run north to the nomadic tribes who had recently made a tentative contact with the Stallions, who had decided not to attack but instead send out traders. Lucky break, considering that these tribes were a confederation of nomads founded by a survivor of the tribes scattered to the east by the northerners, who had sought revenge and achieved it, but had also forgotten who exactly the 'Salt People' were. Not exactly the preferred place to run, but she figured that if things got bad she could find a place there with her horse riding skills.

Or... thinking over the message again, Rulwyna wondered at what power her mother had discovered. Rulwyna often had trouble with keeping up with her mother's ideas, but that was from lack of experience rather than mental acuity, and she knew that most other shamans and priests could not follow along because of lack of interest in pursuing the strange ideas. If she disappeared for a time into her mother's work, could she grasp what divine wrath that had struck her down and turn that against her enemies? Plus, if she did that, she might not send her father to an early grave, or bring strife to the People if others decided she was attempting to cultivate dangerous foreign ties.

Choose a path...
[] Forge a new path of war
[] Begin diplomacy with the Highlanders
[] Run away to the north
[] Attempt to finish her mother's work​
 
[X] Begin diplomacy with the Highlanders

She already likely has high Martial, may as well boost her Diplomacy.
Though all the options but North seem pretty cool.
 
[X] Begin diplomacy with the Highlanders

Might as well start some diplomacy. It's the option that seems most likely to give us the new subordinate state followed by the Nomads.

Though Nomads might give them cavalry, which we definitely do not want nomads to have.

Not sure about the research option.

Definitely not the war option though. We're already squeezing enough Martial traits out of this war.

Edit: Diplomacy is now Wealth. Currency taking root?
 
Last edited:
ah fuck. ok so....
war: Martial, conquer further lands of the hathatyn.
Highlanders: Diplomacy, possible lowland opening.
North: Diplomacy, Lasting Peace in the north. HAHAHA just kidding, they'll forget about her in 3 turns
Mom: Mystic, possible discovery of explosives
 
Taking the roll of parchment handed to him, Rulhuthyn quickly read over it before his eyes went wide and he just sort of stopped. Not died or collapsed, just sort of sat down and looked off into the distance. Taking the scroll from her father's limp fingers, Rulwyna looked at it and found news that her mother had done something in her studies that had resulted in either the gods smiting her or demons getting loose, because the compound where she worked looked like it had been struck by lightning repeatedly. The woman herself was barely alive at the time of the messenger leaving, burned in strange and terrible ways by the magic she delved too deeply into. Whether she was still alive, or would live long enough for them to get back, was unknown but doubtful.
Oh my Crow... is this gunpowder?

How...!?

It sounds like gunpowder but it can't be. We don't have a source of potassium nitrate!

 
Last edited:
Back
Top