It's also noted to be an incredible gamble that is unlikely to work. Two martial could make all the difference.
Granted, I'm voting for 3 martial, but that's because I'm saving econ for chariots and planning on the war lasting longer. If you want to go for the finishing move, you should try and make sure it is actually going to finish them.
It's also noted to be an incredible gamble that is unlikely to work. Two martial could make all the difference.
Granted, I'm voting for 3 martial, but that's because I'm saving econ for chariots and planning on the war lasting longer. If you want to go for the finishing move, you should try and make sure it is actually going to finish them.
It pretty much isn't worth it. The additional effects combined with the drastically low centralization and low economy makes it essentially worthless.
People voting for it are pretty much just overreacting and not reading into the consequences of the action. Those consequences are basically the ability for our chiefs to raise private armies. Does this sound like a good fucking idea for two extra martial?
It's literally the recipe for civil war. Welcome to fucking feudalism, bitches.
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
Changing to West. The south east would require better/more chariots, whereas whatever reserves we get will be yeomen and foot soldiers.
The West at least allows us to take advantage of the proto longboats.
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
Mass recruitment puts us at a pretty dangerous 1 Centralization, and we still have another couple turns with this Below Average Admin king. We've already lost 1-3 Centralization in one turn depending on this vote. I'd rather not risk any unexpected shenanigans taking it down into the negatives please.
[X] [Strategy] Drive them south-east
Nothing's more fun than pointing one problem at another and letting them kill each other.
The 6 Martial vote would not finish us though. It would require some finagling to make the econ work out next turn, but that's about it. Otherwise we give them the likely possibility of getting bronze weapons from the metal workers unless we roll well enough.
I mean, that's why I'm just voting to stop them from getting stuff from the metal workers in the first place as opposed to doing the all in strat...
The 6 Martial vote would not finish us though. It would require some finagling to make the econ work out next turn, but that's about it. Otherwise we give them the likely possibility of getting bronze weapons from the metal workers unless we roll well enough.
I mean, that's why I'm just voting to stop them from getting stuff from the metal workers in the first place as opposed to doing the all in strat...
The 6 Martial vote would not finish us though. It would require some finagling to make the econ work out next turn, but that's about it. Otherwise we give them the likely possibility of getting bronze weapons from the metal workers unless we roll well enough.
I mean, that's why I'm just voting to stop them from getting stuff from the metal workers in the first place as opposed to doing the all in strat...
It pretty much isn't worth it. The additional effects combined with the drastically low centralization and low economy makes it essentially worthless.
People voting for it are pretty much just overreacting and not reading into the consequences of the action. Those consequences are basically the ability for our chiefs to raise private armies. Does this sound like a good fucking idea for two extra martial?
It's literally the recipe for civil war. Welcome to fucking feudalism, bitches.
AN has already repeatedly stated that what you are suggesting is negative centralization, not centralization 1. This is the kind of attitude that poisons the thread.
Like, there is a good argument for 3 martial. This is not it.
Too many people are arguing for me to keep of people's points and how feasible they are or are not, honestly. Sorry.
The problem with the diversion is that it is a gamble. Now, it could be that our heroic guy is much more capable of pulling it off than he lets on, but if we're gambling, I'd prefer to stack the deck.
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
The problem with the diversion is that it is a gamble. Now, it could be that our heroic guy is much more capable of pulling it off than he lets on, but if we're gambling, I'd prefer to stack the deck
Next turn could make or break the HK, if we don't take this gamble it wrecks us in the long term, if we do, then we can still hold the line relatively well
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
If we stick to a smaller size then we shouldn't go for the risky south west option then.
Next turn could make or break the HK, if we don't take this gamble it wrecks us in the long term, if we do, then we can still hold the line relatively well
If we take this gamble and are outmaneuvered and spend the lives of our people for nothing then that also wrecks us long-term as we'll be up against two heroes with bronze weaponry and will have failed to divert or break part of the horde and will likely be down some martial.
I want a trait evolution definitely, this should help us out. Likely skewed towards our Honour traits? Maybe. AN's comment on All Values except LoW make it probably equal.
They could do it, but considerable
amounts of authority would have to be shifted from the king to the lower level chiefs in order to get the coordination done. A smaller recruitment could be made at less overall cost, but what they really needed was more chariots, but it would just take too long to build them and train the drivers and archers.
This says to me that we need more chariots whatever option of more dudes we pick. The smaller pick does leave us with the econ to do that much more easily, though the biggest option does to actually.
Finally there was the possibility of attempting to drive the nomads into the Thunder Speakers - they couldn't afford to leave the west uncontested so they couldn't exactly focus on the east, but if they could maneuver just right they could maybe even get the nomads to realize that there was more plunder past the pass and run into the lowlands.
On a more practical note, the increased sea traffic from the new trading post and Hatriver had demonstrated considerable benefits to the ship building industry, and new designs that could take greater advantage of the availability of docks and their shipbuilding capacities were already showing benefit. Some of the larger designs cropping up were quite interesting to the king, as he envisioned being able to take large groups deep into the steppes via the rivers to attack his enemies from unexpected directions.
It's possible, but with the river in the way and the area in between not being that rich, they may not bother.
Ehhh... if they hadn't taken bronze weapons off the Metal Workers and Thunder Speakers you would have probably been able to throw them back at the cost of essentially breaking your hand in doing so. As is the damage inflicted was about evened out on both sides, and their heir has proven himself a brilliant commander in the process. The Heroic Martial King doesn't think that the nomads can win, but he gives about even good odds of catastrophically fucking up the north if things don't go well.
Portable+size.
Why do you think you're getting what amounts to a 3 Main option at the cost of centralization? That said, poor administrative kings can also screw up orders.
All of these tell me we need portable + size. Do remember we have a north east fork of the river going through the Stallions and getting up there with boats will really help any of hold center or redirect south-east nomad actions, plus west is best helped this way too. At least they should in my mind.
It typically doesn't, but better administrators can typically deal with very high or very low centralization issues more adeptly. High centralization with a really bad leader is probably the worst of all worlds because the state will do stupid things more efficiently.
So he has a below average admin and is likely going to have some difficulties dealing with low Cent. We do have a plague on the downtrend. Other notes are that low Cent won't kill us. On the other hand we are at 3 and with that we still have plenty of space for Enforce and New Trails.
So, Smaller does +3 Martial and we will be at 7 Econ and 4 Expansion.
That puts us at next turn 10 {12} Martial because we would actually be getting +2 instead of +1 from QoO. This is actually pretty damn high.
The mass recruitment will give +6 Martial for -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion(+1 from True City? Net -1?), -2 Centralization.
That puts us at next turn with 13 {14} Martial and 5 Econ(possible badness if something explodes again), 2? 3? Expansion and 1 Centralization.
Hmm that puts us at red Martial at negative stab and low cent. Seems sketchy.
Well my vote for now will be:
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
Need to think about strategy some more.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Jun 10, 2017 at 7:45 PM, finished with 51449 posts and 75 votes.
If there is a single vote that I want to win, it is this. It is imperative that we ensure the Nomads, which has two heroes again, do not gain any more qualitative advantages. They already evened out with chariots. Let's not allow them to gain more advantages.
Also, I believe that this is the first time we're going to see a match-up up close Heroic Martial characters. Let's see if we can somehow squeeze out a tactical innovation out of this.
Oh yes because we don't have an example of this happening....
Go back and read the thread mate, this is what they needed to break through our defenses in the Great Nomad War, two crits with two martial heroes, granted they didn't have Bronze, but we didn't have Iron or our colony of West Wall.
Don't you dare accuse me of making shit up just because you don't like what I'm saying.
Possibly, but we broke them out of that without even trying last time, and if we drove them even somewhat South East then they wouldn't be as inclined to attack the Metal Workers
Of note to people voting to go west I will point out that it leaves our east undefended, and we have no NE March to block the way into Stonepen and Northshore and son(?)(not sure from update) is still out there in that direction.
Which lead to the second major strategic decision, which was to focus on the west and attempt to relieve the Metal Workers. Bringing the majority of his forces to bear on one half of the nomads would give him the possibility of crushing them and reducing the loot they were gaining, but it would also weaken defences in the east, especially if they didn't drive the western enemy off quickly and decisively.
Defeating larger armies in detail has worked before. The timing is just tricky here, though notably less risky than the south east option in our Hero's mind, since he doesn't notably comment on it's difficulty beyond saying it needs to get done quickly.
Possibly, but we broke them out of that without even trying last time, and if we drove them even somewhat South East then they wouldn't be as inclined to attack the Metal Workers
They didn't have heroes or spoked chariots then. Remember, their heir just left after fighting us for a turn, when he had spawned the turn before.
You know, at this point I want a cassus belli on the Metal workers called "Stop giving the nomads bronze." The war goal would be to make them tributaries and force them to fort up and protect themselves from nomads.
You know I just had a thought but why hasn't a big nomad Waagh!! hit the Thunder Horses dead on like do we have some special trait that makes nomad Waagh!!s targeted at us or are we just plain unlucky to be the main foucus of all ones we know of?
Also how hilarious would it be if sometime in the future we are fighting another heroic martial Waagh!! but our Blackbirds crit and assassinate him easily and the kicker AN thought this would be our equivalent to Genghis or Attila which we basically no sold.
Oh yes because we don't have an example of this happening....
Go back and read the thread mate, this is what they needed to break through our defenses in the Great Nomad War, two crits with two martial heroes, granted they didn't have Bronze, but we didn't have Iron or our colony of West Wall.
Don't you dare accuse me of making shit up just because you don't like what I'm saying.
During that war we were focused primarily on defense, as opposed to maneuvering large quantities of troops in an exposed fashion in an attempt to bait the enemy. If they're able to eliminate large portions of our army then they will have free reign to pillage between our cities even if they can't break our walls. Don't pretend that this isn't a very risky option when the narration clearly states that it is.
You know I just had a thought but why hasn't a big nomad Waagh!! hit the Thunder Horses dead on like do we have some special trait that makes nomad Waagh!!s targeted at us or are we just plain unlucky to be the main foucus of all ones we know of?
Also how hilarious would it be if sometime in the future we are fighting another heroic martial Waagh!! but our Blackbirds crit and assassinate him easily and the kicker AN thought this would be our equivalent to Genghis or Attila which we basically no sold.
[x] [Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Drive them south-east
then smash the normals attacking the metal workers
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[x] [Library] Free Study Metal (Guaranteed breakthrough)
[x] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
