Paths of Civilization

DocMatoi · Jun 10, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Whenever spending mysticism, gain +1 mysticism the next turn.

@Academia Nut is this a One-For-One transfer? Does any spent mysticism refund the next turn?

Painfulldarksoul · Jun 10, 2017

McLuvin said:
Hell yeah! Not!Greeks/Phoneicians/South Americans/Elves/Dwarves/Vikings!!!!

You forgot to add vampires.

pblur · Jun 10, 2017

Abby Normal said:
I'm not so confident that's the way that it works...

I'm PRETTY sure, though I'll admit we don't have specific WoG on it. It just makes sense though; if our farmers aren't actually fighting (contributing to our marital), losing martial (people who are fighting) won't kill them.

McLuvin said:
Also look at my previous post before this one, will that extra 2 Martial really help all that much?

It's 20% more martial. 20% bigger military is DEFINITELY a potentially decisive advantage.

Edit: Great @veekie, Heroic Diplo, !$%*? Admin I SUMMON THEE!

TheDanishLord · Jun 10, 2017

LONGBOATS!
Storm the winter shores of England
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Loot and pillage with your warband
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.

Celebrate the glorious battle
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.
Troll the ancient Yule tide carol,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.

In the blaze of London burning,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.
Slay your foes and sing 'til mornin,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.

Follow me in this adventure,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.
While I tell of gold and treasure,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan,

Far away on eastern beaches,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.
We will find a home and riches,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.

Off we norsemen sail together,
Fa la la la la, la la la lan.
Heedless of the wind and weather,
Fa la la la la, la la la lera.

McLuvin · Jun 10, 2017

pblur said:
It's 20% more martial. 20% bigger military is DEFINITELY a potentially decisive advantage

In exchange for 200% less centralisation during a plague and gifting The governors local private armies

bluefur87 · Jun 10, 2017

Argument retracted.
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 2046 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.2
[1] Geographic Administration
[1] Neolithic Deathray

Task: Recruit
[44][Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[15][Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[3][Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[2][Recruit] Focus on the next generation (+4 Econ, -4 Expansion)

Task: Strategy
[40][Strategy] Drive them south-east
[22][Strategy] Relieve the west

Task: Library
[34][Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[22][Library] Free Study Metal (Guaranteed breakthrough
[9][Library] Free Study Forests (Guaranteed breakthrough)

Task: Boats
[36][Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability
[26][Boats] New design: Emphasize size
[1][Boats] Increase speed while maintaining portability
Total No. of Voters: 68

pblur · Jun 10, 2017

McLuvin said:
In exchange for 200% less centralisation during a plague

By WoG the plague is about over. And that's not how math works. Naively, it's 66% less. Properly for a non-zero-floor metric it's based on distance from floor, not zero. Something like 20-40% depending on cent floor.

and gifting The governors local private armies

Citation needed. From everything I've seen, this is speculation entirely undermined by WoG.

McLuvin · Jun 10, 2017

pblur said:
By WoG the plague is about over. Ant that's not how math works. Naively, it's 66% less. Realistically for a non-zero-floor metric, its based on distance from fllor, not zero. Something like 20-40% depending on cent floor

Haven't done maths since GSCE's, and I thank god for that

guyfromtheplace1 · Jun 10, 2017

[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Drive them south-east
[X] [Library] Free Study Metal (Guaranteed breakthrough)
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

DocMatoi · Jun 10, 2017

pblur said:
Citation needed. From everything I've seen this is speculation entirely undermined by WoG.

This is the quote in question i think

Academia Nut said:
This is double main warriors with a main expand econ to pay for it. To get the equivalent of three main actions, you have to delegate.

Glassware · Jun 10, 2017

Hm...

[X] [Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Econ Expansion, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[X][Strategy] Relieve the west
[X][Library] Free Study Forests (Guaranteed breakthrough)
[X][Boats] New design: Emphasize size

Okay, yeah. I think relieving the Metal Workers is likelier to pay off and more in-line with what I'd like our values to be. Introducing another player to the lowlands, while ingenious, would also be kind of a shitty thing to do. Also, driving them south-east is risky and likely to backfire badly; I'd rather not take even more damage. If we can corner and destroy one part of the horde, though, we could end up with them being driven east to easier targets anyway.

NotteBoy97 · Jun 10, 2017

bluefur87 said:
Boat Size + Relieve the West = Able to transport troops over via our large ships easier to make relieving the west not as difficult.

I actually asked AN and he said that portability+size is better than a new size design for relieving the west.

bluefur87 · Jun 10, 2017

pblur said:
Citation needed. From everything I've seen this is speculation entirely undermined by WoG.

While I will note that I do not believe that this will establish feudalism or privatized armies, it should be noted it will likely adjust parts of our government.

Academia Nut said:
Rulhuthyn knew that he could beat these bastards before they inflicted too much more damage, but he needed more men. The Stallion Tribes were doing well, but it wasn't enough. He would have to draw upon the enormous reserves of militia and yeomanry to get enough for what he needed to make this a death blow, but when he had asked the advisors how to accomplish that, the news had been... not great. They could do it, but considerable amounts of authority would have to be shifted from the king to the lower level chiefs in order to get the coordination done. A smaller recruitment could be made at less overall cost, but what they really needed was more chariots, but it would just take too long to build them and train the drivers and archers.

I note the second part, though, which is why our guy is even considering the third option. He wants more chariots to fight better, and not dropping our econ now would let us do that next turn.

Every action has some sense here, if people would be willing to listen.

pblur · Jun 10, 2017

Academia Nut said:
This is double main warriors with a main expand econ to pay for it. To get the equivalent of three main actions, you have to delegate.

DocMatoi said:
This is the quote in question i think

But that doesn't equal the governors getting private armies. Look at the original description:

Academia Nut said:
He would have to draw upon the enormous reserves of militia and yeomanry to get enough for what he needed to make this a death blow, but when he had asked the advisors how to accomplish that, the news had been... not great. They could do it, but considerable
amounts of authority would have to be shifted from the king to the lower level chiefs in order to get the coordination done.

He's delegating recruitment, not leadership. Our king will still be leading the troops, not the governors.

McLuvin · Jun 10, 2017

Glassware said:
would also be kind of a shitty thing to do

It'd be necessary, we can't let the baby eaters become dominant over the Lowlands, and they might just do it, they are stalemating the Highlanders despite their Heroic Martial and better forts and the Hath are on the verge of reunifying with a bone to pick with the Highlanders, a two front War would end them and let the Xoh threaten us whilst the Hath directly go at Hatriver.

If we channel them into the Lowland stage Xoh will spend the next century bleeding and dying, a new nation will be forged where the Thunder Speakers originally were and the Highlanders will be able to solidify their hold on the Eastern Hath and occupy them long enough for Hatriver to become unassailable

McLuvin · Jun 10, 2017

pblur said:
He's delegating recruitment, not leadership. Our king will still be leading the troops, not the governors

But the governors would be in charge of forming and recruiting the army, making them more capable of taking control and just making armies whenever they felt like it

bluefur87 · Jun 10, 2017

NotteBoy97 said:
I actually asked AN and he said that portability+size is better than a new size design for relieving the west.

I retract my statement and change my vote then, but I will say that having the ability to move larger amounts of troops over water is very counter intuitive. I will just guess the logistics are wonky somehow or the iteration once again much smaller than I thought.
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

Mannan · Jun 10, 2017

[X] [Recruit] Mass recruitment (+6 Martial, -2 Econ, -2 Centralization, additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

pblur · Jun 10, 2017

McLuvin said:
But the governors would be in charge of forming and recruiting the army, making them more capable of taking control and just making armies whenever they felt like it

Sure, it moves in that direction. But that's synonymous with saying it drops centralization.

It doesn't "gift them private armies" as you originally stated.

Glassware · Jun 10, 2017

McLuvin said:
It'd be necessary, we can't let the baby eaters become dominant over the Lowlands, and they might just do it, they are stalemating the Highlanders despite their Heroic Martial and better forts and the Hath are on the verge of reunifying with a bone to pick with the Highlanders, a two front War would end them and let the Xoh threaten us whilst the Hath directly go at Hatriver.

If we channel them into the Lowland stage Xoh will spend the next century bleeding and dying, a new nation will be forged where the Thunder Speakers originally were and the Highlanders will be able to solidify their hold on the Eastern Hath and occupy them long enough for Hatriver to become unassailable

The problem is, you're unwilling to actually provide the manpower to do it. Even with the +6, he considers it risky and chancey. If we're doing this I'd want it done with both longboats and the maximum number of soldiers. Otherwise, let's try something saner.

PLP · Jun 10, 2017

[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

Changing my vote due to WoG about boats and realizing we can't send the Nomads to the Lowlands without the big +Martial.

NotteBoy97 · Jun 10, 2017

bluefur87 said:
I retract my statement and change my vote then, but I will say that having the ability to move larger amounts of troops over water is very counter intuitive. I will just guess the logistics are wonky somehow or the iteration once again much smaller than I thought.
[X] [Recruit] Smaller recruitment (+3 Martial, potential additional effects)
[X] [Strategy] Relieve the west
[X] [Library] Evolve a random value other than Love of Wisdom
[X] [Boats] Increase size while maintaining portability

I assume that it also involves how the same boat you take to get to the trade post can also be used to go through the rivers further in and raid. Remember the trading post itself isn't in direct danger so our warriors need to get to the metal workers to actually relieve them which is made harder without portable boats.

McLuvin · Jun 10, 2017

Glassware said:
The problem is, you're unwilling to actually provide the manpower to do it. Even with the +6, he considers it risky and chancey. If we're doing this I'd want it done with both longboats and the maximum number of soldiers. Otherwise, let's try something saner.

It's a 2 Martial difference!
It's not that much

pblur · Jun 10, 2017

McLuvin said:
It's a 2 Martial difference!
It's not that much

It's a 20% bigger army. It IS much.

Umi-san · Jun 10, 2017

pblur said:
But that doesn't equal the governors getting private armies. Look at the original description:

He's delegating recruitment, not leadership. Our king will still be leading the troops, not the governors.

That is not what the quote means to me.

Paths of Civilization

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Viking Warlord

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Theoretical Lover of Girls

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Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn

Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn

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