- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
cowards
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ahh. Thanks for the clarification. I believe True City is at the start of the turn, due to it working like a "next turn Econ" payout from something like Secondary New Settlement, at least in my head.
- Location
- The People's Saltern
There could be a few reasons such as:
- Possibly reduce centralization hit from Enforce Justice
- Potential walling upgrades/legacies (100% minor walls?)
- Preemptive defense against Lowlanders.
- Plug holes in northern provinces
- Postpone library completion (on the off chance we somehow manage to get a Golden Age. I wish.)
- Panic bandwagon!
- Paid no attention to our current Econ
- Location
- Meycauayan, Bulacan, Philippines
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Main Enforce Justice
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Main Enforce Justice
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense
[x] [Library] Valleyhome
[x] [Temple] Know that the gods are with us (+1 Stability)
[x] [Corruption] Burn occupational administration down (-2 Stability, switches to geographic admin within Valleyhome)
[x] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[x] [Policy] No change
A vote for switching to geographic. Takes stability rather than an advance or evangelism, because this is the worst time to hit negative stability; puts the library in Valleyhome because that's how we get records of the corruption of guilds as a warning to future administrators.
Honestly, the library in Valleyhome is probably all the more important if we're going to try to keep occupational - the fight against corruption is going to be eternal, and we were explicitly warned the corruption of guilds was better hidden. Our administrators will need the records for knowledge of previously used tricks and attempted solutions.
Note that keeping that extra point of stability is vital this route, because geographic is obviously corrupt. Makes it easier to fight, but it's easier to fight because our citizenry is more likely to become unhappy and demand something be done about it.
[x] [Temple] Know that the gods are with us (+1 Stability)
[x] [Corruption] Burn occupational administration down (-2 Stability, switches to geographic admin within Valleyhome)
[x] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[x] [Policy] No change
A vote for switching to geographic. Takes stability rather than an advance or evangelism, because this is the worst time to hit negative stability; puts the library in Valleyhome because that's how we get records of the corruption of guilds as a warning to future administrators.
Honestly, the library in Valleyhome is probably all the more important if we're going to try to keep occupational - the fight against corruption is going to be eternal, and we were explicitly warned the corruption of guilds was better hidden. Our administrators will need the records for knowledge of previously used tricks and attempted solutions.
Note that keeping that extra point of stability is vital this route, because geographic is obviously corrupt. Makes it easier to fight, but it's easier to fight because our citizenry is more likely to become unhappy and demand something be done about it.
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[x] [Policy] No change
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[x] [Policy] No change
- Location
- The People's Saltern
The provinces aren't going to be too suicidal. They're also relatively risk-adverse.
On The Law's doubling: It targets intelligently.
PS: Someone needs to consolidate all these WoGs into a mechanics post.
Geographic is easier to fight assuming the political elites including the king want to? Why should they?
With occupational at least the bureaucracy has an interest in keeping the guilds on the straight and narrow.
Because the King has his (or her) power and resources reduced by corruption. This isn't new.
The question isn't "will the King want to stomp on corruption," but "does the King have the tools to do so."
Edit: Also, because riots.
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[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
- Location
- Philippines
Gerrymandering is too complex for the common man to understand at this level of development. As for the king having his power reduced, why would it, higher councils being unbalanced and non-representative do not touch his power. Hell the king is likely to have risen through those same mechanisms.
That the corruption on the part of Geographic Administration is more visible was quite explicit:
You're welcome to resolve your difficulties with that yourself; I'd say it's because the relevant corruption isn't gerrymandering, and never was. Current methods are noted for being nepotistic.
And the King has his power and resources reduced by corruption because the entire point of corruption is syphoning off resources and power from a system you wouldn't have legitimately - which means you're stealing power and resources from the King.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Well the totally honest flipside of this is the King doing all of the funny business and fooking over the other Oligarch families, unbalancing the system in the King's favor.
Not honestly sure how that would end up looking in narrative and updates. Probably not very good in the long run.
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@Academia Nut Out of curiosity, since the tech vote for the temple looks like it's effectively a free main art patronage, why aren't we getting prestige from that? Is the prestige we would have gained just wrapped up in the temple?
Anyways, depending on what we need to do next turn, I'd like to propose some things.
If it turns out the northern nomads aren't going to come down and attack us immediately, then I would like to highly consider dropping a Salt Gift on the Hathayn if that's an option, as there is a good chance we can encourage some of their settlements to flat out flip to our side. Another option would be [Main] Black Soil, in an attempt to advance it to new techniques, while gaining some extra econ. I feel we should definitely count on needing to do a [Main] Expand Econ, or at least a secondary expand econ depending on how many econ slots we have, in order to increase our overall Econ.
Anyways, depending on what we need to do next turn, I'd like to propose some things.
If it turns out the northern nomads aren't going to come down and attack us immediately, then I would like to highly consider dropping a Salt Gift on the Hathayn if that's an option, as there is a good chance we can encourage some of their settlements to flat out flip to our side. Another option would be [Main] Black Soil, in an attempt to advance it to new techniques, while gaining some extra econ. I feel we should definitely count on needing to do a [Main] Expand Econ, or at least a secondary expand econ depending on how many econ slots we have, in order to increase our overall Econ.
The King taking too much power onto himself and not keeping up with the workload?
Go look at the end result for Enforce Justice right now.
[X] [Library] Valleyhome
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[x] [Policy] No change
I want the library to buff our kings and to spread our values far and wide with the pilgrim stuff.
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[x] [Policy] No change
I want the library to buff our kings and to spread our values far and wide with the pilgrim stuff.
- I would not really call nepotism corruption for our hereditary oligarchic elites. That's their nature. Now if you are talking strictly abut the guilds, yes that can be nepotistic however it is not relevant to my argument.
- The point of corruption does not have to be undermining central authority directly. It can also be sidestepping checks and a balances, rendering unfair and biased judgements or undermining one's rivals, none of which directly impacts the power of the king. Further a king risen though such a system would see it as normal.
Directly. It is possible for the corrupt to limit themselves to ways that don't fuck over the King directly. For a limited time, anyway, because the entire problem with nepotism is that you're not selecting competent people.
Having to use incompetent subordinates rather than competent ones is very noticeable all the same, though, so even the ones who rose through it and see it as normal are going to push back - before we go into the issue of "general population protesting bad government."
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA, United States
Alright, now that it's morning I want to speak some more.
The main reason why I want pilgrimages is due to the fact that we have many wonders (including iron during the cooper age) if there is a tendency to avoid warring this is the best way to let others know - and we're going to need that to shift our reputation from "weak hill prople that steals our people" to "people of wonders who are beloved by their gods". Also in this early age the best way to generate Culture is through Faith (more Civ terms), have a consistent story attached to our gods and people will be speaking of our gods for some time (that's how the Greeks did it).
People have been talking about avoiding patriarchy, hierarchy and shared property but to what end? Let's open up our borders and share Ymaryn values far and wide.
The main reason why I want pilgrimages is due to the fact that we have many wonders (including iron during the cooper age) if there is a tendency to avoid warring this is the best way to let others know - and we're going to need that to shift our reputation from "weak hill prople that steals our people" to "people of wonders who are beloved by their gods". Also in this early age the best way to generate Culture is through Faith (more Civ terms), have a consistent story attached to our gods and people will be speaking of our gods for some time (that's how the Greeks did it).
People have been talking about avoiding patriarchy, hierarchy and shared property but to what end? Let's open up our borders and share Ymaryn values far and wide.
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I have to admit part of my motivation for pilgrimage over art tech is the MW aid mission. Like, I get the feeling folks will be inclined to credit our gods with some power after we curbstomp Hell On Earth. If we can keep moving west and share religious figures getting the Metal Workers as a freindlyish client state or even integrating them might be doable.
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- Location
- Sydney
{X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Now that sounds like a lot of fun.
A particularly far-seeing king might notice, a mediocre is more likely to prefer the incompetents he knows and who owe him favors from his own stint being a lower level corrupt oligarch.