They also burned down an entire an march, raided our heartlands and were only driven back by overwhelming hatred. We took them by surprise in round 1, since even AN didn't think we would go beserk the way we did.

Even round two required a massive amount of men on our part, and we were stated to have lost 1/3 of the army we committed against them.

Nomads are no joke, even with all our advantages.

They make no distinction other that 'we hate the southerners' apparently.
The difference between now and then is pretty simple.

They don't have 2 heroes working together in leading the Waaagh!...and we have iron weapons.
 
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense

Ho ho?!? Everyone's busy and nomads are united? What blasted luck for everyone else.
Library can be worked on slowly, better throw up some walls and train some guys for nomadic war round 3.
 
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense

Time for these corrupt jerks to get a surprise visit from Inspection.
 
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
I'd love Sacred Forest to be our scholarly capital, away from the politics.

[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
I want the other civs to try and emulate us, because I think it'd make them nicer. Though the tech upgrade would be nice, trade power is the step towards that.

[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
We've constantly had to root out corruption, and I don't think a Main Enforce Justice would be enough in this particular case. They're stifling potential innovations, and that's not right at all. It really pisses me off.

[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
I could probably be convinced to switch this one if given the right argument, but I'd rather help the friends we just plonked a trading post down next to than anything else. Besides, my policy vote covers our backs in case things go bad with the other two Diplo options.

[X] [Policy] Defense
If any shit heads our way, we'll be ready to deal with it. At least if a war's coming our way we'll be able to fairly safely bleed off martial without spamming martial like the nomad rage. Also going off Megaproject support means we aren't rushing the Library, and gives our stats a bit more leeway to start overflowing into each other while we deal with the immediate issues and fortify ourselves in case the new Mega-Lowland-Grinder-swarm sweeps our way.
 
Alright I accept that policy and law are firmly bandwagon.

But why choose the spread technique bonus when the Pilgrimage option has far far greater future benefits, especially when synergied with temple library!
 
The difference between now and then is pretty simple.

They don't have 2 heroes working together in leading the Waaagh!...and we have iron weapons.
Don't get cocky. Those two heroes caused the first famine in Ymaryn history. Iron is still a strong advantage for us, but we have to stay cautious. Hubris has killed far too many nations.
 
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense
 
Pilgrimage, is the best way to gather people from far and wide In one place and have them all share things. Centers of Pilgrimage not only generate ludicrous wealth from all the travel, but they are also a furnace for new Ideas and practices. So long term it's far better technology wise, and keep in mind that with the library attachment, we will get pilgrims of both the pennant kind and the theological /philosophical kind, so that's an even bigger tech and economy boost.
Absolutely. I went for the uptech because some nice buttressed walls and towers right now would be really handy against the horde.

No glory in battle, just walls with archers. No loot, just walls.
 
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense
 
Diff Checker
General
Diplomacy 7 [+4]
Economy 4 [-1]
Econ Expansion 7
Martial 6 {8}
Diplo 14 [+3] -> 7 [+4]
14 + 3 (Saltern+Trade Dominance) -5 (Salt Gift) -5 (Found Trading Post) = 7. Also, note that we have +4/turn now, thanks to the new trading post =D
Econ 6 [-1] -> 4 [-1]
6 -2 (Trading post) - 1 (True City) -1 (Temple) - 2 (Alter March to Colony) + 4 (Baby Boom) = 4
...Thank god for the baby boom i guess o_O
Econ Expansion 5 -> 7
5 + 2 (Colony switch) + 2 (Trading Post) + 1 (City) + 1 (Temple econ expenditure) - 4 (Baby Boom) = 4
Martial 8 {10} -> 6 {8}
8 - 2 (found trading post) = 6. Though i'm pretty sure it should be 6 {7} since usually quality of its own rounds down i think?
Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
No change in stability, alas we were right and the temple neither auto-gives stability nor counts for divine stewards
Cultural
Art 9
Mysticism 9 [-1+1]
Prestige 17
Art 12 -> 9:
12 - 1 (Temple) - 3 (Library) + 1 (Canal boost from temple)
Mysticism 13 [-1] -> 9 [-1+1]
13 - 1 (wisdom) - 3 (Library) + 1 (Canal Boost from temple)= 10...Unless all the megaproject actions were for the library (which means the 1 temple econ and econ expansion was instead one of the 2 total econ costs of the library), in which case we got a free action to finish up the temple? Also, woo, the temple fixed up the wisdom drain like we hoped!
Prestige 14 -> 17
+1 for temple, +2 for salt gift
Trade Status
ResourceStatusRivals
Luxuries Fine PotteryMinorXohyssiriFine DyeDominatingHathatynFine TextilesNoneXohyssiri, Swamp FolkGoldMinor tradingHathatyn, Metal WorkersSilverSignificantHath, MW, XohSaltDominatingNoneWineLeadingHathStrategic CopperSignificantHath, Highlanders, Thunder Horse, MWBronzeNoneNon-tradedTinNoneMW (in), TH (in), Hath (in)IronNon-traded dominantNoneCultural PilgrimageModerateThunder Speakers, Xoh
The Hathatyn continue to be crossed out on everything but tin importation.
Our trading post increases our Gold, Silver, and copper trading trade from None->Minor Trading, Moderate->Significant, and Moderate->Significant, respectively.
The Highlanders are not listed as importing tin yet, but presumably thats an oversight considering they're producing bronze now.
Greenshore Trading Post (Trading Post) - Increases trade power for all Metal Worker products, provides a market for an extra saltern
Oooh, nice--judging by the +4/turn diplo income "market for an extra saltern" seems to count as an extra saltern for free, which is amazing!
Fake Edit: AN has clarified, Trading posts synergise with salterns:
Nope! Every trading post can support a saltern, so instead of +1/2 after the first one, every saltern/expansion after the first gives +1 if there is a trading post to support it.

Also, forgot to update all of the prestige you got from the temple and the salt gift.
Periphery States (3/3+1)
Our periphery state count hasn't been updated yet, however
Edit: It's been updated...to 3/3+2, which still seems wrong...i would have thought it'd be 4/4+1, since we have 2 marches, 1 colony, 1 trade post, and 4 regular slots, 1 march slot...
Also, the western wall has updated its description:
"Western Wall (Colony) - Expands to produce new provinces and find new resources, and can take be brought into wars to the north and west"

Intellectuals
Priests
Elders -> Priests, via the temple
Animism -> Polytheism, via the temple
Legacy Gained
One of Each (Three): +1 Periphery State
Oooh, very nice, and expected :)
the People had grown somewhat numb to trade reports of fighting in the lowlands.
XD
[X] Megaproject – Library
[X] Found Trading Post

Provinces – [Main] Megaproject x3
I approve our our admin hero's focus this turn :)
Stallions - [Main] Build Iron Mine, [Main] Sailing Mission – Northern Rivers
Sweet, the stallions have their own iron mine =D
Hatriver – [Main] Expand Warriors, [Sec] Expand Econ, [Sec] War Mission – Anti-Bandit
As expected, anti-bandit operations are necessary. Also interesting that our new march is focusing on regular warriors over elites...neither of our previous marches ever took regular expand warriors... (Like, literally ever; i did a post on what actions the marches took an update or two ago)

the Highlanders seized numerous mines and experts, and would undoubtedly be able to start producing their own bronze.
Damn D= I hope our new march at least grabbed a mine as well since it seems like our new southshore holdings didn't have any mines... @Academia Nut ?

There was however a big question as to where to put the collection of knowledge and wisdom, of which there were two choices: Valleyhome, as an aid for the king, and in the Sacred Forest, as an extension of the new temple.

Location of the Library?
[] [Library] Valleyhome
[] [Library] Sacred Forest
I was expecting more options, but with these two, definitely want "aid for the king" over "extension of the new temple"--admin improvements ho!

Somewhat fortunately some had apparently already been doing that in defiance of convention, so the project was already partially begun!
Awesome! I wonder what this signifies mechanically...maybe that we rolled the rare "2 progress for 1 action"?

After repair the artisans had realized that it was a sign from Crow, in that they marked out the area of the ceiling that had been open to the sky and painted it as black as they could, a ragged puncture wound in a blue sky of stars from where Crow had emerged from the Dark Beyond Dark at the start of the universe. While there had been some initial grumbling that there weren't stars at the time, the shamans agreed with the artisans that it was a certainly evocative image, to have the full alien glory of Crow emerging from a wound in the heavens upon the ceiling.
Oooh, interesting :)
Truly massive, the statue had Fythhagyna's knees come up to a man's chest, and while they had had to compromise for the sake of structure by having her in a seated position upon a gigantic stone carved to appear like the stump of a tree, the overall construction was still a marvel.
That's pretty big, though i'm not sure how it compares to historical statues? Is it absurdly big for a new iron age civ? Or "just" absurdly big compared to earlier ones for us?
Megaproject Completed!
Grand Temple
A place for universal praise and worship of gods and spirits, the grand temple acts as a centre for the faithful and a training place for priests and shamans. Opens up new social concepts, alters actions, and provides +1 Mysticism a turn until either destroyed or rendered obsolete by more sophisticated theology
Sweet! I wonder which actions got altered aside from holy site improvements...
Select a bonus
[] [Temple] Know that the gods are with us (+1 Stability)
[] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
Oooh, all of these are good...tech is always nice, but prestige and pilgrimage power is also nice...though i dont really want to dominate teh pilgrimage trade, because that seems too easy toget knocked down from and trigger problems...
"Your laws against the practices of splitting and lumping? Several of the leaders who preferred lumping decided to take matters into their own hands, and have been taking matters into their own hands to get their way. Those within their own occupations who might pioneer new occupations are sidelined, marginalized, and ridiculed. Those outside their purview who might do the same for rival factions are poisoned with metals, their minds robbed from them, or if need be are more quickly disposed of via 'random' acts of violence. They spread creepers all throughout Valleyhome and have been progressively strangling out those in positions of power who think differently from them. And yes, of course I can direct your agents towards all the evidence I found to piece this frankly ridiculous story together," the man explained.
...Well damn D= (Fake edit: AN has revealed that this is a result of a 6, and then a 1 on two innovation rolls last turn and this turn, while we're apparently on the verge of new innovations...damn dice!)
Corruption
[] [Corruption] Deploy force
[] [Corruption] Main Enforce Justice
[] [Corruption] Burn occupational administration down (-2 Stability, switches to geographic admin within Valleyhome)

AN: Deploy force is a bit complicated, but it is essentially a Main Restore Order where if you are successful you remain where you are but excise the corruption, but if things go sideways you lose stability and legitimacy
Hmm...if "successful" for deploy force is "would have gained +1 stab or higher on normal RoO", that's pretty good odds, especially with an admin hero... @Academia Nut is that the case? And if we can know, would it be worse or better odds than a normal RoO given we have an admin hero but its also more complicated?
Xohyssiri Golden Age ends
Xohyssiri now Leading Member in Personal Union with the Thunder Horse
You may now address the general over-polity as the Xohyssiri Empire if you wish
...Well, damn D= That's frankly about as strong a golden age expenditure as us getting iron...
. The first was a message from the trading post on Greenshore, sending word that something catastrophic had happened to the Metal Workers and they had somehow opened a doorway to the Underworld. One of their important valleys was now apparently choked in poisonous yellow smoke, fire shooting from the earth as sinkholes opened up. While not their only valley, it was an important enough internal trade route that even if the disaster just sat there and did not spread it threatened to shatter the power of the king there, leading to fighting and conflict... and that was only if the demons unleashed were content to stay in that valley!
...I think someone mentioned coal vein fires? (This was the "two critfails on uncritfailable actions"; rolled 1 on survey land twice in a row)
And then, just when it sounded like things could get no worse, the explorers from the Stallions sent north had returned early, unable to penetrate as far as they wanted due to hostile forces, and their stories confirmed by runners from Paltrulvi's tribes that a new chief had arisen in the far north, the descendant of a tribe driven off in generations past. With an ancestral grudge against 'the southerners' and promising the tribes under him that there was tremendous loot to be had in rapine pillage of the south, as well as the settling of grudges with the weak tribes of the east, this sounded like it was going to be like the wars of legend from centuries past, a storm of horseflesh thundering down from the north.
uuugh, nomads D=
Who to outfit?
[] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[] [Diplo] Send delegations to the Metal Workers and Thunder Speakers (-2 Diplo)
[] [Diplo] Launch a Main War Mission - Northern Nomads

Policy change?
[] [Policy] Offense
[] [Policy] Defense
[] [Policy] No change
I kind of want to send aid to the MW...as for policy switch, we have:
Two to three more actions.
left on the library, so keeping megaproject up would be nice... grrr, hard choices D=

ALso:
The Highlanders critically succeeded on taking a bite out of the Hathatyn. The Hathatyn will either stabilize under a heroic leader with thoughts of revenge, or collapse completely next turn.
Good to know...will those thoughts of revenge be solely or primarily on the Highlanders from them being rather more direct on that matter, or are we in their sights as well?
 
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Absolutely. I went for the uptech because some nice buttressed walls and towers right now would be really handy against the horde.

No glory in battle, just walls with archers. No loot, just walls.


Better walls are great but we have no idea what the new tech is, and the vote is not going defensive so it bloody useless having better walls if we can only start building them a generation after the enemy horde has invaded us!
 
[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense
 
Alright I accept that policy and law are firmly bandwagon.

But why choose the spread technique bonus when the Pilgrimage option has far far greater future benefits, especially when synergied with temple library!
We are currently listed as moderate for pilgrimage, and the tech will boost all our mega and expanded projects, as well as our defensive constructions.
 
Alright I accept that policy and law are firmly bandwagon.

But why choose the spread technique bonus when the Pilgrimage option has far far greater future benefits, especially when synergied with temple library!
People see the tech advance and think construction techniques. They see religion and think of ignorance and brainwashing.

I see the tech advance and think it advances our art. I see religion and think strengthening our ability to spread our ideals.
 
Alright I accept that policy and law are firmly bandwagon.

But why choose the spread technique bonus when the Pilgrimage option has far far greater future benefits, especially when synergied with temple library!

I don't feel now is the best time for pilgrimage increasing option as we already have some, and with hostile nomad hero coming south.

Granted the ??? tech option might not help either.
 
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[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
Proto-university. Valleyhome is a bit politically charged at the moment. I've been hoping for a Golden Age Library but it's probably not going to happen now. Too much progress and not enough time to get a Golden Age.

[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
We can slowly poison the minds of the pilgrims with our (obviously superior) cultural values. As a bonus, some people might decide to stay.

[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[] [Corruption] Main Enforce Justice
This is probably going to be a temporary fix even if it works.

[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)

The Metal Workers are now on the menu. Also prevents the nomads from getting a supply of bronze.

[X] [Policy] No change

Possibly weaken the +Centralization from Enforce Justice, but I'm also fine with staying at the same policy. Not Offense though, since we might want to make more blackbirds to deal with this corruption or for other espionage related things.

Edit: Let's just finish the megaproject and get the free policy change. RIP Golden Age Library.
 
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Well that makes me slightly more okay with pilgrimage not winning, but I really want pilgrimage to extend our cultural power as much as possible. It could be the start to diplo-annexing many of our neighbors.

[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
Starts us with knowledge being a more esoteric endeavor, allows for the beefing up of our general wisdom.

[X] [Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
Let's us pull in even more outsiders, convert them to our culture, and make diplo annexing of our neighbors easier.

[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
Should work under an admin king.

[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
Do not want them to fall to the nomads again if possible, should also start working on incorporating them.

[X] [Policy] Defense
Offense would likely have us go over our martial cap, but we can't not alter to deal with this threat.
 
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[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] Defense
 
Can someone create a pro, and con list of our Corruption options? (Someone preferably not @veekie, @veekie has a tendency to take one view, build a skyscraper of points towards that one view, while spitting on any other option.) I just want to explore our options, before OBEYING THE WILL OF VEEKIE!!! FOR VEEKIE IS WISE, INSECT!
Corruption
[] [Corruption] Deploy force
[] [Corruption] Main Enforce Justice
[] [Corruption] Burn occupational administration down (-2 Stability, switches to geographic admin within Valleyhome)

Edit: People have answered this question. It is no longer necessary to answer!
 
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[X] [Library] Sacred Forest
[X] [Temple] See to the spread of the techniques that went into making this place (+3 art, tech advance)
[X] [Corruption] Deploy force
[X] [Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X] [Policy] No change

I really want to have the Temple/Library become the seed of a proper center of learning.
 
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