It's worth not knowing!
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's a DC comics thing tied into the archvillian Darkseid. It's a mind control equation, speaking it fully to someone the right way let's you control them.
But no it's
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Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Well, anyways I hope that the harvest goddess doesn't win. I'm saving her for either Rainbow Trail or Valleyhome. Preferably valleyhome, so that we can put the Advisor God in Rainbow Trail and the twins in Redcoast. Having the Advisor God be where kings are buried would be poetic, after all. And having the harvest goddess in the most fertile and populated province is just common sense.
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Don't people want to put the library in Valleyhome? Wouldn't that be an immensely better place to put Crow?
Next to the military expansionist, nomad founded Civ.Problem is their on the other side of the Lowlands, so yeah
Their hermaphroditic nature makes that wrong. As I said before making the first temple focused on them means its a Temple dedicated to very concept of The People, unity and shared roots and the like.
More the minor time devouring jobs that no one really wants to do. Remember this is about saying that children are unproductive. Chores exist for a reason. Having someone to do the small clean up jobs as your working or fetch things across the room can save hours of labor and back pain. This is also why janitorial positions are a thing.
Why the hell would anyone pay a kid as much as a full grown adult, working the same time period? They often work for snacks much of the time.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Given our new trading value, we would be better of founding a trade post.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Eh, I've moved from wanting it in valleyhome to wanting it in Redcoast, but honestly it'd be fine either way.
The problem with putting crow in Valleyhome is it would reduce our people's emphasis on the secrets of the physical world and move us to a more esoteric stance.
@Necratoid k
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
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- She/Her
The People have the wrong concept matrix right now to put him in there. E: By put him in there I mean connect him to the Library. He's a religious figure first and Teacher second.
In about
E2: In case this was not obvious this is mostly speculation on my part.
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- Location
- Hell
No?
He's supposed to be mysterious. Valleyhome is all open and full of fields. It would make more sense to put Fythhagyna there since she is the Spirit of Agriculture after all.
- Location
- The People's Saltern
We have a great reason to build a Mountain now.
They're a great annexation target. They can get us more dye and silver along with providing access to gold and copper. That's everything the Metal Workers trade (that we know of) and they're way closer too.
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- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
Actually @Academia Nut do we know if the metal workers trade with anyone else we know of because if they don't they we may be able to get a trade monopoly on their luxuries to the rest of the lowlands.
Depends how important those iron weapons they just got are. Even if they only get a dozen or so of those they are one hell of a nasty surprise. TH getting a few random iron weapons is just arming a few more of their officers. If they can use the iron to get enough bronze weapons its a game changer for HK. Sending out an elite force with iron weapons, for HK, is like sending a pile of officers at at TH. The kill ratios the idiots got against HK prove they are game changers.
If the rolls go well for them its entirely possible they'll think it was a good thing... and have their own super solders. Iron is mystic at this point and its easy to play things up when you got that much. Or maybe TH gets the iron and tries the same against The People and suddenly everything goes horror show for them.
Or the writing quill is developed after paper equivalent. Scrribes favoring crow feathers for science reports and notes could end up a thing.
[X] [Temple] Mathulmyn
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[x] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
I really want the proto-shipyards because this is the very first step in figuring out mass production, standardization and generally a factory setup. The Arsenal of Venice is a great example of how far a shipyard can carry you and we don't yet have the bulk trade that needs bigger or faster ships. But once we actually set up trade posts with neighboring civilizations and import food in exchange for salt (which shouldn't be far off, Rome imported tons of grain from Egypt, after all), we will force innovation towards bigger and faster boats as that is what the traders will want.
Crow being knowable really helps with our natural law approach and keeping him somewhat apart also excludes him from divine politics. Make Crow the Rules instead of another player. And through that, make our people want to learn those rules.
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[x] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
I really want the proto-shipyards because this is the very first step in figuring out mass production, standardization and generally a factory setup. The Arsenal of Venice is a great example of how far a shipyard can carry you and we don't yet have the bulk trade that needs bigger or faster ships. But once we actually set up trade posts with neighboring civilizations and import food in exchange for salt (which shouldn't be far off, Rome imported tons of grain from Egypt, after all), we will force innovation towards bigger and faster boats as that is what the traders will want.
Crow being knowable really helps with our natural law approach and keeping him somewhat apart also excludes him from divine politics. Make Crow the Rules instead of another player. And through that, make our people want to learn those rules.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They seem to trade with people to the south and west, as well as the nomads in general.
- Location
- Illinois
@Academia Nut do we know why our marches were sending trade missions to the nomads?
So, if we sail to the southwest of the MW, we'll be able to encounter a new kingdom.
Then put him in Redcoast where you want the library?
Crow is a teacher and trickster, he is barely considered a religious figure and the current vote vastly favors making him more of a force of nature. This is perfect with pairing with the library as we then start recording observations on the natural world.
If we want to make Crow something to represent our people's desire to learn and study, it makes sense to put him next to the Library.
I could accept that if the current vote didn't absurdly favor him being alien, but able to be figured out. We are specifically setting this up so people who worship crow will interpret it as a means of studying the world around them. This is unquestionably further advanced by the library being attached to his temple.
That's not a claim of 'you should put crow in valleyhome' that was pointing out that people have, last I checked, wanted the library in valleyhome so that would be the good place to put his temple. If he does get put in the sacred forest, we should absolutely try to put the library there.
I just don't think he's well served by being in the sacred forest, we are making him a deity about study of the unknown, not of the unknown being unknown. I am not arguing 'the sacred forest is unsuited for x deity,' as much as a set of arguments where:
- Crow's temple is the best place to put the library, so we should put his temple where we want the library.
- The library would be best served in a relatively busy settlement, I would say this means Redshore or Valleyhome are the prime targets, with Valleyhome already having a city we can build off of.
- Thus I believe Crow is more suited for one of those sites.
- Our sacred forest is the major expression of our taking care of nature. This is most shown in our ability to farm. So I believe the Harvest Goddess is most suited for it.
Our cornerstone is nature, and the harvest goddess is the best representation we have of that currently, and our Sacred Forest is a heavy representation of our ability to care for the land. I do hope it can be understood why I feel the two are the most synergistic out of the available pairings.
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Don't you dare defile Best Pony Rainbow Dash by mixing her with a filthy CROW of all things!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I like Crow where he is being put best of all; the only real alternative I'd accept is G&G, but that's not an option at this time.
I'm perfectly fine with building the Library unattached to the Temple. Since it makes libraries and thus academia, knowledge, literacy, etc. more separate from religion and thus more public doing so is in fact preferable.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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- Lickwidget
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So to all you folks, who may or may not care one way or another here are my reasons to vote for Crow + Alien and Knowable:
Perhaps you may find a reason to vote for him after reading. Or not. *shrug*
1) I've liked the concept he represents for a very long time.
-A) He is in my mind the Teacher of Hard Knocks and at times the Inscrutable Old Wuxia Master. E: His students spend a lot of time learning how not to be stupid, which I consider a crucial life skill.
--A2) By putting him in a representation in the Temple I see us enshrining the idea that overall when taking our cosmology as a whole, the Universe is a Teacher. It's not a particularly kind teacher but it is a through one.
-B) Mechanically I figure the combination of Crow + Knowable has a very large synergy for innovation. I figure this is especially important because we are about to embark on creating proto-shipyards, or some how changing the places we build our boats. This all leads me to think we might generate, or open the way to get, some form of Curiosity, which would drop the costs of any radical ideas we need the Ymaryn to accept, like Iron. This will probably help mitigate the negatives of questioning social values that Love of Wisdom has, I.e it will still happen but it will be done in a positive light.
2) He is the most important overall Spirit to the the People, while not necessarily the most prayed to. None of the options seem to risk stability drops so that's an irrelevant metric. The important metric for me is that he came first and his image and what the People think are his teachings has led them very far. So placing him as the representative center makes sense to me.
3) Doing this would eventually make him chief god, and having a religion centered around a innovation encouraging god is a very good thing. It will provide push-back against Guild ossification.
-A) This is related to Curiosity. I figure this may also help us explore more and learn about the neighbors we know little like the super rich folk down to the south and west.
-B) An addendum to countering Guild ossification and why I am not putting him in the obvious place of Valleyhome, is that I figure the Shamans our scientist equivalent are the best suited to counter it and the temple that gives them the institutional power to do it is being built in Sacred Forest.
Honestly I don't think this is quite everything but hey *shrug* I'm kinda tired.
Oh also have a Tally.
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1767 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Temple
[31][Temple] Crow
[26][Temple] Fythhagyna
[9][Temple] Mathulmyn
[6][Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[1][Temple] Crow and Mathulmyn
Task: Crow
[59][Crow] Alien but knowable
[7][Crow] Benevolent
[3][Crow] Prankster
[3][Crow] Alien and unknowable
Task: Boats
[57][Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[12][Boats] Size
[1][Boats] Speed
[1][Boats] Portability
Task: Drought
[59][Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[8][Drought] Found March in the North-East
[2][Drought] Ensure proper behaviour (Main Enforce Justice)
[2][Drought] Bring more land under cultivation (Main Expand Econ)
Task: CA
[61][CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[4][CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[2][CA] Bring in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
Total No. of Voters: 74
Perhaps you may find a reason to vote for him after reading. Or not. *shrug*
1) I've liked the concept he represents for a very long time.
-A) He is in my mind the Teacher of Hard Knocks and at times the Inscrutable Old Wuxia Master. E: His students spend a lot of time learning how not to be stupid, which I consider a crucial life skill.
--A2) By putting him in a representation in the Temple I see us enshrining the idea that overall when taking our cosmology as a whole, the Universe is a Teacher. It's not a particularly kind teacher but it is a through one.
-B) Mechanically I figure the combination of Crow + Knowable has a very large synergy for innovation. I figure this is especially important because we are about to embark on creating proto-shipyards, or some how changing the places we build our boats. This all leads me to think we might generate, or open the way to get, some form of Curiosity, which would drop the costs of any radical ideas we need the Ymaryn to accept, like Iron. This will probably help mitigate the negatives of questioning social values that Love of Wisdom has, I.e it will still happen but it will be done in a positive light.
2) He is the most important overall Spirit to the the People, while not necessarily the most prayed to. None of the options seem to risk stability drops so that's an irrelevant metric. The important metric for me is that he came first and his image and what the People think are his teachings has led them very far. So placing him as the representative center makes sense to me.
3) Doing this would eventually make him chief god, and having a religion centered around a innovation encouraging god is a very good thing. It will provide push-back against Guild ossification.
-A) This is related to Curiosity. I figure this may also help us explore more and learn about the neighbors we know little like the super rich folk down to the south and west.
-B) An addendum to countering Guild ossification and why I am not putting him in the obvious place of Valleyhome, is that I figure the Shamans our scientist equivalent are the best suited to counter it and the temple that gives them the institutional power to do it is being built in Sacred Forest.
Honestly I don't think this is quite everything but hey *shrug* I'm kinda tired.
Oh also have a Tally.
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1767 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Temple
[31][Temple] Crow
[26][Temple] Fythhagyna
[9][Temple] Mathulmyn
[6][Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[1][Temple] Crow and Mathulmyn
Task: Crow
[59][Crow] Alien but knowable
[7][Crow] Benevolent
[3][Crow] Prankster
[3][Crow] Alien and unknowable
Task: Boats
[57][Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[12][Boats] Size
[1][Boats] Speed
[1][Boats] Portability
Task: Drought
[59][Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[8][Drought] Found March in the North-East
[2][Drought] Ensure proper behaviour (Main Enforce Justice)
[2][Drought] Bring more land under cultivation (Main Expand Econ)
Task: CA
[61][CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[4][CA] Open the borders and granaries (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[2][CA] Bring in as many as possible (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ, other effects)
Total No. of Voters: 74
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Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Crows are actually very clean and capable of grooming themselves, unlike equines.Don't you dare defile Best Pony Rainbow Dash by mixing her with a filthy CROW of all things!
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her