Either one is possible, but the shamans will want to emphasize advisor role in their current artistic language.
Yeah. The problem is making sure that the intended message survives the forces of time and isn't altered. So, time and politics/other artists.

So true so real the most factual.

[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Benevolent
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Crow does what he does as he does. But he does it because he wants you to learn.
 
*sigh* This is the third time I've lost my temper in this thread. Next time, I'll definitely keep better control over myself. Sorry for going off at you.


The shamans were certain it was to benefit us in the end, as it helped them know the world better and gave them the revelation that metal was awesome. The important part wasn't that they weren't sure, because they weren't, but that they knew that despite all the trials and tribulations, it was ultimately a good thing. If we lock out Benevolence, our people will not be as willing to go with our - the players' - foresight and wisdom. In practical terms, it means less stability loss when we try to do something like get iron or reform taxes.
It's okay. Shit happens, and I'm learning not to mind it. Might I recommend going to r/aww when you feel the need to tear your hair out over something someone says? I find it helps a lot to stare at cute animals. It also helps a lot to ask the person who is making you feel stressed a question about what they meant. Like, did you mean X? Or Y? Type of deal.

I'll go look back, I have a niggling impression you are right but ehh, this is mostly for clarifying it and not of too much personal importance to me. I agree that Benevolence will almost certainly lead to lesser stability hits with options like Iron. I don't really agree with the idea that Alien but knowable will not also have stability reducers inside it too, simply less obvious ones. This is because I see Knowable as a spark for Curiosity. Curiosity is a very positive idea, that inclines a willingness to explore all options because you wish to. *shrug* I need to spend some time organizing my thoughts on the matter before I really want to get involved in a big and long discussion over it.


Anyhoo my new vote:

[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

One order of Stability please and putting a god in place because you like what he stands for.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 8:25 PM, finished with 44281 posts and 42 votes.
 
Last edited:
As in if we do choose them as the center figure, the shamans will emphasize the advisor role, or as in if we don't, then the shamans will, but we don't know what the shamans will emphasize with them as the centerpiece?
More like if we have the king at the center, the shamans will lean towards an advisory role for depiction...though prevention of foolishness is also possible. Either options don't prevent future expectation of kings to always listen to shamans.
 
We also have to remember where we are placing this. This Temple is going to be in our Sacred Forest, at the heart of our Kingdom.

@Academia Nut Can you explain what Alien and Unknowable is a bit further?

[X] [Temple] Crow and Mathulmyn
[X] [Crow] Alien and unknowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Found March in the North-East
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Mainly because I like the idea of painting Crow on the ceiling - separate but above them all.
But the main deity that people should worship is Mathulmyn. There should be continued pressure for kings to rule well and be competent.
Also, "where they're made may get them studying the wood that the boats are made out of.
Lastly, the March means less mouths to feed and we are already at -1 Stability. I don't want another hit.
I'm pretty sure you can't pick two. It is about emphasizing a specific role, I believe.
[X]Plan Ashryn's vengeance
No plan voting.
 
[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
If we don't depict the god of king, it's likely that the king will mutate anyway. If you let the shamans do whatever they needed, they'll be able to depict them the way our choices made it.
 
More like if we have the king at the center, the shamans will lean towards an advisory role for depiction...though prevention of foolishness is also possible. Either options don't prevent future expectation of kings to always listen to shamans.
We already have a culture of Kings to listen to their advisers though? Am I misunderstanding your post?
 
[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Benevolent
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
The thing about making Crow "alien but knowable" is that it raises the question of "knowable to who?" It opens the possibility of a head priest/shaman, who may conflict with the king in regard to who holds authority among the People.
 
I am very paranoid about picking Crow for our temple causing a stability loss because of our previous choice with the clan thingie.
 
Hey @Academia Nut I need some clarification about Mathulmyn. If you went around and asked a thousand Ymaryn on the street how many would say he/she was God of Kings, and how many would say he was King of the Gods?
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 8:31 PM, finished with 44289 posts and 43 votes.
 
We will always need farm to feed our population, farm goddess is the most relatable divine figure to the average folk.

There's never enough food, thus we should ensure the act of farming is respected and protected.
 
We already have a culture of Kings to listen to their advisers though? Am I misunderstanding your post?
Yeah, our kings currently listen to shamans and chiefs alike for advice, but giving the King deity the most emphasis will likely lead to group think of "shamans are always right, so the king should always listen to them and do what they say". If the king ignores their advice (because shamans can also be corrupt ofc), there might be stability loss/legitimacy loss...because people will think the king is ignoring the Spirit's wisdom and is acting foolish.
 
We also have to remember where we are placing this. This Temple is going to be in our Sacred Forest, at the heart of our Kingdom.
...This is an incredibly good argument.
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Alright people, remember, this is the sacred forest, one of the cornerstones of our agriculture, enshrining Fythhagyna at this site makes a huge amount of sense. She is also the least political out of all of the gods, by word of update, so it's safe to venerate her. This makes the temple for the people and for the forest. Remember the trees people!
 
Thinking about it, I don't want to deal with a God of Kings but I'm not terribly fond of making the temple to Crow, either.

[X] [Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
We also have to remember where we are placing this. This Temple is going to be in our Sacred Forest, at the heart of our Kingdom.

@Academia Nut Can you explain what Alien and Unknowable is a bit further?


I'm pretty sure you can't pick two. It is about emphasizing a specific role, I believe.

No plan voting.

It's a matter of specifying roles with Crow being separate and alien but the God of Kings being the one people come to pray to. Otherwise, no one may come to the new Grand Temple.

@Academia Nut, am I reading that right?
 
As in if we do choose them as the center figure, the shamans will emphasize the advisor role, or as in if we don't, then the shamans will, but we don't know what the shamans will emphasize with them as the centerpiece?

Always gives the advisor role, but picking Mathulmyn as the centre means that when people first enter the temple the idol to that god will be front and centre, emphasizing that this is the deity most in need of worship.

Can you explain what Alien and Unknowable is a bit further?

Crow is strange and mysterious and it is futile to attempt to understand why he does anything.

I need some clarification about Mathulmyn. If you went around and asked a thousand Ymaryn on the street how many would say he/she was God of Kings, and how many would say he was King of the Gods?

100% would say s/he is the God of Kings, but only about 25%-35% would say he is the King of Gods.

What the People wants to be the central figure? What about the shamans? What do they want?

That's what this vote is about.
 
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna (death to the false god crow.) Harvest godess synergizes well with our values as a people.

[X] [Boats] Size

[X] [Crow] Alien and unknowable
He is explicitly stated to be a demon. I dislike the revisionist history that cemented his legend. This man was a blight upon our people.

[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)


The man was not a blight upon our people for fucks sake. Crow did what literally everyone BUT the player controlled faction was doing, simply making the mistake of nabbing a girl that this one marital dude had a huge boner for. Marital dude retaliated by going full tunnel vision hate boner, genocided Crow's entire tribe, and then did the same exact thing that Crow did.

Except the wife he raided was the daughter of the lady he had a crush on and Crow. I invite you to reread that story post. Have a quote from it.

[Finally though numbers and brute force won out over Crow's skills at evasion, and Ashryn had his revenge three times over. First when he scattered Crow's people to the winds. Second when he brought his mace down upon Crow's head and shattered both with his wrath. The third time when he took Crow's daughter with Ashryn's old crush - long passed in childbirth - as his prize. A most beautiful young woman, she was of the sort who normally only elders would have been able to pair in order to keep the young men from fighting over her. While the argument that she was really part of the tribe being reclaimed held some weight, there were many who found it concerning the level of violence that had gone into everything. Ashryn's first wife was particularly upset with his decision, but no one wanted to tell him no, that he couldn't, that he was wrong.]

Ashryn was a fucking horrible asshole of a man. The entire tribe itself turned against him, because he embodied all the god damn seven sins of our IRL bs. He doesn't deserve revenge. He deserves exactly what he got.

Considered an example of everything a Big Man shouldn't be.
 
Fythhagyna is definitely a safe bet, as she would appeal to everyone and give a bonus to Divine Stewards...though we would miss out on innovation bonuses and stuff.

Still, if she's in the lead i'll definitely switch my vote to her.
 
We get very little of value out of large immigrant waves. Iron Blooded simply means the econ isn't worth as much compared to the stability lost - and the loss of Grand Sacrifice makes that even worse.
They've literally had "Additional effects" on them every single time and we've never taken them. Raw econ they're not efficient, no questions asked. But they give us something, most likely tech and other ideas as we grab the more stable people instead of just those willing to risk everything to run away.

Also we still had GS and didn't have Iron back then.

So like I said, we had a great opportunity and we're not going to get it again for dozens of turns.
 
See the thing is, I don't mind building a Temple to any of the others, but this is going to be our main and first temple. Whoever is chosen turns into head of the gods. Regardless of what their original role is.

@Academia Nut Can you put the Trade Status on the front page please? It makes it easier to reference.

I am very paranoid about picking Crow for our temple causing a stability loss because of our previous choice with the clan thingie.
Wut

Why would it cause that?
...This is an incredibly good argument.
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

Alright people, remember, this is the sacred forest, one of the cornerstones of our agriculture, enshrining Fythhagyna at this site makes a huge amount of sense. She is also the least political out of all of the gods, by word of update, so it's safe to venerate her. This makes the temple for the people and for the forest. Remember the trees people!
That incredibly misread my meaning. I meant that as support for Crow. As he is our most important Spirit, alien and mysterious.

Fythhagyna would have made sense if we had made the Temple in Valleyhome as that is our breadbasket and makes most sense to place our Spirit of Agriculture there.
It's a matter of specifying roles with Crow being separate and alien but the God of Kings being the one people come to pray to. Otherwise, no one may come to the new Grand Temple.

@Academia Nut, am I reading that right?
I really am hoping for his own interpretation. That is why I asked him.
 
The man was not a blight upon our people for fucks sake. Crow did what literally everyone BUT the player controlled faction was doing, simply making the mistake of nabbing a girl that this one marital dude had a huge boner for. Marital dude retaliated by going full tunnel vision hate boner, genocided Crow's entire tribe, and then did the same exact thing that Crow did.

Except the wife he raided was the daughter of the lady he had a crush on and Crow. I invite you to reread that story post. Have a quote from it.

[Finally though numbers and brute force won out over Crow's skills at evasion, and Ashryn had his revenge three times over. First when he scattered Crow's people to the winds. Second when he brought his mace down upon Crow's head and shattered both with his wrath. The third time when he took Crow's daughter with Ashryn's old crush - long passed in childbirth - as his prize. A most beautiful young woman, she was of the sort who normally only elders would have been able to pair in order to keep the young men from fighting over her. While the argument that she was really part of the tribe being reclaimed held some weight, there were many who found it concerning the level of violence that had gone into everything. Ashryn's first wife was particularly upset with his decision, but no one wanted to tell him no, that he couldn't, that he was wrong.]

Ashryn was a fucking horrible asshole of a man. The entire tribe itself turned against him, because he embodied all the god damn seven sins of our IRL bs. He doesn't deserve revenge. He deserves exactly what he got.

Considered an example of everything a Big Man shouldn't be.

Actually, that is an entirely different Crow. IIRC, it was based on Crow's grandson.
 
Back
Top