We're teaching them that it's better to trade then to war with us. Which is a good thing. As opposed to an asshole royal line that kept sending us nomads to whack.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
We're teaching them that it's better to trade then to war with us. Which is a good thing. As opposed to an asshole royal line that kept sending us nomads to whack.
If we're going to be shaking up our laws again, Restore Order has too much chance of ending very badly. And the Justice emphasis of Enforce Justice suggests we'll be paying close attention to the outcomes of following our new laws if we're enforcing it.
So, that pretty much leaves us with [Main] Festival, which ... well, it's certainly not going to provide much synergy with trying to resolve our city management problem.
What we really need is a way to spend Centralization.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
[X] [Clan] Roll back, institute geographic administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X] [Main] Build Trails
[X] [Secondary] Build Vineyard
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [CA] Metal Workers
Any other day I would vote and spend pages arguing for Hereditary Nobility, as is proper in civilised society.
But the nobels need to be tied to the land or be intrinsically tied to the king for an aristocratic society to function well.
Great Lords who's power is detached from land and king is disastrous.
Which is fucking infuriating, hundreds of posts and no option for Hereditary Nobility, and the one update that presents the option, presents the wrong fucking kind of aristocracy.
[X] [Main] Build Trails
[X] [Secondary] Build Vineyard
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [CA] Metal Workers
Any other day I would vote and spend pages arguing for Hereditary Nobility, as is proper in civilised society.
But the nobels need to be tied to the land or be intrinsically tied to the king for an aristocratic society to function well.
Great Lords who's power is detached from land and king is disastrous.
Which is fucking infuriating, hundreds of posts and no option for Hereditary Nobility, and the one update that presents the option, presents the wrong fucking kind of aristocracy.
Last edited:
IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION!
@Academia Nut If we choose geographical or occupational, does it apply to all Demons, just the cities, or just the True City?
@Academia Nut If we choose geographical or occupational, does it apply to all Demons, just the cities, or just the True City?
We really do have a Danzo!.
@Academia Nut : This is going to take off like a rocket, so if you have any summations, clarifications, or expansions to make with regards to geographic vs occupational it would probably be best to post them ASAP.
Hogwash. People have been leaning towards inherited jobs for generations, hence why we currently have an oligopoly instead of an elected kingship. Guilds decide who and how many can join, and since their status in the government is the same regardless of the number of practitioners represented the powerful few with vital skills have no incentive not to hoard.
-if the guild you want to join feels like letting you. If you move to a new area and the local subchapter is ruled by an old codger and his childhood friends who don't want to have enough competition around to force them to work hard to make bank, well, your choices are to move away, get good at digging ditches, or have a couple of blacksmiths play chopsticks across your fingers with mallets for stepping on their turf without a license. All perfectly legal.
Why? The whole point of a guild is to consolidate, concentrate, and limit access as much as possible to the information you are trying to ensure survives the collapse of centralized structures and institutions. Worse, guilds do it in concert with all the other guilds in the ecosystem. They depend on each other, so even if one does happen to have an offshoot survive, it's going to collapse into disuse when its institutional supplier and customer bases do.
Like, this is just outright bizarre. How do guilds in any way improve the technological robustness of a society? They are specifically engineered for the sole purpose of doing the exact opposite.
Hogwash. People have been leaning towards inherited jobs for generations, hence why we currently have an oligopoly instead of an elected kingship. Guilds decide who and how many can join, and since their status in the government is the same regardless of the number of practitioners represented the powerful few with vital skills have no incentive not to hoard.
-if the guild you want to join feels like letting you. If you move to a new area and the local subchapter is ruled by an old codger and his childhood friends who don't want to have enough competition around to force them to work hard to make bank, well, your choices are to move away, get good at digging ditches, or have a couple of blacksmiths play chopsticks across your fingers with mallets for stepping on their turf without a license. All perfectly legal.
Why? The whole point of a guild is to consolidate, concentrate, and limit access as much as possible to the information you are trying to ensure survives the collapse of centralized structures and institutions. Worse, guilds do it in concert with all the other guilds in the ecosystem. They depend on each other, so even if one does happen to have an offshoot survive, it's going to collapse into disuse when its institutional supplier and customer bases do.
Like, this is just outright bizarre. How do guilds in any way improve the technological robustness of a society? They are specifically engineered for the sole purpose of doing the exact opposite.
Last edited:
- Location
- United States of America, Michigan
[x] [Main] Great Temple
[x] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[x] [Secondary] Enforce Justicex2
[x] [CA] Xohyssiri
[x] [Clan] Roll back, institute occupational administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[x] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[x] [Secondary] Enforce Justicex2
[x] [CA] Xohyssiri
[x] [Clan] Roll back, institute occupational administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
- Location
- Las Islas Filipinas
[X] [Clan] Roll back, institute geographic administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Art Patronage
I voted before for geographic, im sticking with geographic. Me thinks art patronage might give good results with the temple, though i hope the provinces expand the economy
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Art Patronage
I voted before for geographic, im sticking with geographic. Me thinks art patronage might give good results with the temple, though i hope the provinces expand the economy
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I think it's a Heroic Intrigue character that belongs either to us, and is a warmonger aka Danzo, or to the Thunder Horse and is trying to use the idiocy of the Clan reform to try and spark a war.We really do have a Damzo!.
Blame Danzo.We really do have a Danzo!.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
[X][Clan] Roll back, institute geographic administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X][Main] Great Temple
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice x2
[X][CA] Xohyssiri
Guilds ~= corpratism
Corpratism != Crow
QED
[X][Main] Great Temple
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X][Secondary] Enforce Justice x2
[X][CA] Xohyssiri
Guilds ~= corpratism
Corpratism != Crow
QED
Last edited:
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Yes, just ignore my later quote of the QM's info post because it contradicts your opinion
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
To clarify: I'm thinking of geographical organization as basically being a town mayor/manager-type system while occupational is a guild type system.
A geographical organization is a more effective management system because it means that we're dividing the city up into little divisions where specific people are managing/repairing local roads, fighting crime, regulating shops, etc. It's always very clear who one needs to go to and what one is responsible for fixing because it's all based on one variable: where it is. Jobs and etc. are built on top of the infrastructure and regulation that this is built on.
An occupational system, meanwhile, has guild-esque systems where people are managed by those who are doing x thing. It's good because it means that certain positions have better, more unified bargaining power with the occupations that they need resources from or provide resources to. It's horrible on an infrastructural level, however, because there's never a simple answer for who is responsible for what and might result in clashes as people argue that it's someone else's responsibility. I.e., if a road gets broken by masons building a house, is it the road people's responsibility to pay for it themselves and fix it, or the masons? Furthermore, since organizational layers are strengthened, any clashes between people of a certain job will need to be negotiated by people of that job, making everything rather personal and likely to impact the system as a whole. Finally, as time passes certain guilds will become far more powerful; this is likely to have a new impact more widespread than that which disproportionate geographical wealth has had thus far.
It doesn't necessarily lead to powerful local families because people are more likely to notice the ongoing nepotism, at least acc. to AN.I thought some people are completely against cementing hereditary anything? Location based power structure/order would lead to powerful local families anyway.
Sure occupational based is likely to be similar, but it adds competency requirements to be elected by their professionals.
Geographical adds competency requirements as people grow unhappy with how things are being done in their neighborhood. Occupational adds more internal but less external accountability.
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Clan] Roll back, institute geographic administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Law
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Law
[X] [CA] Xohyssiri
When people realize the nepotism going on it will give us an option in curbing it rather then hiding it from the people.
Have to say not many civs could piss off their nobility so much and casually reduce their powers at a whim. Guess that's the benefit of a landless aristocratic class.
I'm starting to get the feeling we were the targets of a black ops operation by the TH. If we unlocked Blackbirds then it's not a reach to assume one of the six city states under the TH don't have their own version.
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Law
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Law
[X] [CA] Xohyssiri
When people realize the nepotism going on it will give us an option in curbing it rather then hiding it from the people.
Have to say not many civs could piss off their nobility so much and casually reduce their powers at a whim. Guess that's the benefit of a landless aristocratic class.
I'm starting to get the feeling we were the targets of a black ops operation by the TH. If we unlocked Blackbirds then it's not a reach to assume one of the six city states under the TH don't have their own version.
Gotta admit, I agree with Lailoken when he said that we got a secret Intrigue Stat and we just haven't noticed it yet. The main thing that made me suspicious about this is that the HK is the one polity that we know of that does go about with factionalism and civil wars for kingship. If there is any one polity that has the capacity to unlock the still hypothetical Intrigue Stat, it would be them.
....which means that we might not be dealing with our own Intrigue Hero but theirs. Isn't that a thought to ruminate on?
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Their not quite cities yet
- Location
- Staring into the void
[X] [Clan] Roll back, institute geographic administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justicex2
[X] [Main] Great Temple
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justicex2
Your quote says nothing in any way contradicting my statements.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Oh right, I forgot how shamans invented glaze, the wheel, and compound bows, and are the ones who are responsible for mining, refining, and working metal, and thus are the people most likely to develop new techniques.
Kindly clarify.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Because that's what happened when we got an Oligarchy via Honour of Elites
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
- Location
- Staring into the void
Tally
Um.
If so, they're a rebel hero, because there was no way a war with us was going to end well for the Highlanders.