Uh, why ARE people backing Geographical? it's the easiest to exploit for politics and increasing social stratification(whoever is in a less influential district will see their districts expanded and their per capita vote shrunk to marginalize them, while whoever are in more influential district will be able to leverage influence to boost their per capita vote by splitting their districts up more).

Simple endstate for individuals doing individually optimal things that leads to socially less optimal things.



All systems are prone to abuse, geography based ones are not some special extra corrupt case, we just know more about how they could be corrupted since prettymuch every civ inrl used them (Thyre the bloody simplest and most practical)and what you described applies equally to fluid Clan politics.

And seeing as it's new we will actually have the chance to work out possible exploits and flaws.
 
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Blackbird Expansions seem to usually be linked to Archery upgrades. We got Volley Fire by expanding Blackbirds at the same time as our army. Same as Carrion Eaters tended to expand healthcare as retired carrion eaters made GREAT nurses/orderlies

Probably best left for after we get the next boat tech up personally. Current Dhow ranges are pretty much coast huggy, so even if we find someone, the Metal Nomads or the Hathatyn could blockade trade easily.

Hmm, good idea. I'm currently in favor of this next turn:
[Main] Temple
[Secondary] Vineyard
[Secondary] Expand Forest
Risky. Not sure if I would go for it.

I'd rather do

[Main] Temple
[Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[Secondary] Expand Forest

If our stability went negative due to what we do right now (I think it unlikely) that calls for RoO or something to that effect. I do generally want a secondary stability boost of some form so that we don't get hit too hard by whatever blowing up in the Lowlands. I could be convinced to replace Vineyard for Forest but, ehhhhhhh... someone would have to get it above all the other things I listed and then supplant Expand Forest.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 28, 2017 at 6:07 AM, finished with 42052 posts and 86 votes.
 
Hmm, good idea. I'm currently in favor of this next turn:
[Main] Temple
[Secondary] Vineyard
[Secondary] Expand Forest

No temptation to use that second secondary to switch to Mega-project support and let the provinces handle the temple to they can double up on it and get the law bonus while we handle the more complex issues with our full complement of actions?

It would even even make an interesting narrative: the Great Temple was begun by the king but completed by the provinces with each bringing that with is most beautiful and sacred of their gifts.
 
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Medicinal wines exist, and can be used as a disinfectant. It also helps your digestive system!
 
I agree that we have been putting iff wine for too long I would like at least a secondary vineyards and a secondary expand forest or stab action
 
Medicinal wines exist, and can be used as a disinfectant. It also helps your digestive system!
Nah, for drinking you want Irish Coffee. Heritage yay! :V

If we grow potatoes or can find a group of people growing potatoes we can import potato seeds from I am going to be pushing for things to make vodka so hard. We'd be really Russian at that point.:V

As to the medicinal things what you say is all true, and red wine can also at least somewhat help with cardiovascular health if drunk in moderation. It'll be nice when we can solve some wound infections without cauterization.
 
Can we make glass using the sand from the shores? If so I wonder why our people haven't discovered it yet.
Totally. Sand probably hasn't gotten into the kilns in enough quantity and with some other lucky factors for them to discover it yet. Nor has anyone had the idea to put lots of sand in a kiln to see what happens.

It'll probably happen soon and may be accelerated if we Main Art Patronage.
 
Totally. Sand probably hasn't gotten into the kilns in enough quantity and with some other lucky factors for them to discover it yet. Nor has anyone had the idea to put lots of sand in a kiln to see what happens.

It'll probably happen soon and may be accelerated if we Main Art Patronage.
Or maybe we need to give people more ways to get high or drunk.:p
 
And why the focus on voting and gerrymandering which don't apply to our civ atm?
And this is city districts not national voting districts.

District based administration is a massive bureaucratic innovation, it made taxing, policing, administrating, projects, censuses, city planing and a slew of other things far far easier, or made them actually possible in many cases.
 
Or maybe we need to give people more ways to get high or drunk.:p
Such opportunities to let loose the Drunk Stupid do often lead to scenarios that cause putting sand in a running kiln for the hell of it to sound like a good idea.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 28, 2017 at 6:28 AM, finished with 42064 posts and 88 votes.
 
i want to do this next

[Main]Found March
[Secondary]Expand Forests
[Secondary]Change Policy Megaproject Support
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[x] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
 
All systems are prone to abuse, geography based ones are not some special extra corrupt case, we just know more about how they could be corrupted since prettymuch every civ inrl used them (Thyre the bloody simplest and most practical)and what you described applies equally to fluid Clan politics.

And seeing as it's new we will actually have the chance to work out possible exploits and flaws.
However, top down abuses are basically impossible to root out. Geographical districting gives too big an opportunity for the current power holders to favor themselves ensuring the next generation are their children and so on.
This is happening often enough without us helping them entrench power and bake in advantages.

It's a pretty terrible thing to decide your city layout not by what's the best for the job, but by how to protect your political interests.



No temptation to use that second secondary to switch to Mega-project support and let the provinces handle the temple to they can double up on it and get the law bonus while we handle the more complex issues with our full complement of actions?

It would even even make an interesting narrative: the Great Temple was begun by the king but completed by the provinces with each bringing that with is most beautiful and sacred of their gifts.
Nope. No temptation, there's enough shit going on that I trust the provinces to make the right decisions more than our own.

...and also that without the Provinces taking Expand Economy the city will revert again immediately so, what's the rush to rush the wonder?
Totally. Sand probably hasn't gotten into the kilns in enough quantity and with some other lucky factors for them to discover it yet. Nor has anyone had the idea to put lots of sand in a kiln to see what happens.

It'll probably happen soon and may be accelerated if we Main Art Patronage.
Probably. We've simply paid zero attention to the arts.
 
Thanks for the analysis, but I still don't see how you came to the conclusion that literally every single point of centralization loss from provinces must be solved via New Trails, which your analysis depends upon. Certainly some of it must be solved via that, but your analysis means that we're not allowed to do anything to raise centralization except New Trails, which seems unlikely.
 
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration

[x] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
 
Blackbird Expansions seem to usually be linked to Archery upgrades. We got Volley Fire by expanding Blackbirds at the same time as our army. Same as Carrion Eaters tended to expand healthcare as retired carrion eaters made GREAT nurses/orderlies
Hmm, good idea. I'm currently in favor of this next turn:
[Main] Temple
[Secondary] Vineyard
[Secondary] Expand Forest
I'd rather do

[Main] Temple
[Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[Secondary] Expand Forest

Could we not change our policy to 'Megaproject Assistance' and do the following?

[][Main] New Trails
[][Secondary] Expand Forest (or vineyard)
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
[] Change Policy - Megaproject Assistance

The idea here is that we do desperately need more trails, even after last turn. Centralization is also a necessary factor. We're only at three, which is still ridiculously low for us as a civ that has a tolderance of five. This should finally alleviate that issue for the time being. As much as I would love the vineyard, it's a true toss up between it and the forest. Both are extremely valuable.

In all fairness, this only works if our Econ slots are low. I have no idea what they are at the moment, so i can't gauge it. If our Econ slots are high, then our provinces will end up popping the true city on their own if we aren't careful.
 
Thanks for the analysis, but I still don't see how you came to the conclusion that literally every single point of centralization loss from provinces must be solved via New Trails, which your analysis depends upon. Certainly some of it must be solved via that, but your analysis means that we're not allowed to do anything to raise centralization except New Trails, which seems unlikely.

It seems this way.
Part of our insufficient trails problem was because we were at yellow centralization and thus could not build more trails, for a time.

We basically were at limit of our ability to govern.
 
Probably. We've simply paid zero attention to the arts.
Not totally zero. I know we have done some Art Patronage way back in the mists of memory/time. Just not in living memory.

Most of our Art advances have been incidental, caused by other things we were doing at any given time. A lot of our extant art pieces, and works are probably connected to megaprojects and kings in some way.


Thanks for the analysis, but I still don't see how you came to the conclusion that literally every single point of centralization loss from provinces must be solved via New Trails, which your analysis depends upon. Certainly some of it must be solved via that, but your analysis means that we're not allowed to do anything to raise centralization except New Trails, which seems unlikely.
I see it more as a case that Centralization dropped as a side effect of More Provinces means less connections, but the main issue this caused was insufficient trails. I consider fixing this to be the more important part of New Trails than raising Centralization with New Trails(not saying Cent is not important, it really is, but raising it can be something other than new trails. Sad that it conflicts with these other things though, I really wish we could separate these two problems), that's why I at least want to go for them since insufficient connections has caused us persistent warnings and issues in our civ since we started.

What does Ymaryn art look like?
Lots of Crow and buff Women.


Could we not change our policy to 'Megaproject Assistance' and do the following?

[][Main] New Trails
[][Secondary] Expand Forest (or vineyard)
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
[] Change Policy - Megaproject Assistance

The idea here is that we do desperately need more trails, even after last turn. Centralization is also a necessary factor. We're only at three, which is still ridiculously low for us as a civ that has a tolderance of five. This should finally alleviate that issue for the time being. As much as I would love the vineyard, it's a true toss up between it and the forest. Both are extremely valuable.

In all fairness, this only works if our Econ slots are low. I have no idea what they are at the moment, so i can't gauge it. If our Econ slots are high, then our provinces will end up popping the true city on their own if we aren't careful.
Hanging around six out of ten slots if I don't miss my guess. I also really want stability before it requires a sudden Main RoO to fix.
 
Basically to clarify my view on the Centralization problem I will split it into two parts.

One, is that we have Insufficient Trails. This caused a Centralization drop. To fix this issue we need to make New Trails. New Trails also incidentally fixes the Centralization drop but that is, like I said incidental when considering this particular facet.

Two, we have lost Centralization through various means (events, more provinces, etc) and we need to fix it. We can take Enforce Law and New Trails to fix it.

Three, we have had recent reports of dumb middle management, which is connected to Centralization drops. We need to fix this with Enforce Law. As well as probably RoO in some limited fashion.

I go for trails since it fixes a more longstanding problem and in my mind a more widespread one while raising Cent. We can push to root out the idiots when our Cent drops again.

I really want an action that costs Cent without too many narrative consequences. That'd be really helpful right now.
 
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