Paths of Civilization

Random Member · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

sidestory · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

2xMachina said:
1. [Main] Study Tailings (-1Stab)
1. [Secondary] Policy: Balanced/Restoration
1. Free Secondary, more Survey Lands if we don't find another Mine? Stability option?

2. [Main] Study Health
2. [Main] Study Metal (-1Stab)

This leaves
3. [Main] Build Mine (-1Stab)

Actually how about to changing to Progress and thus allowing something like

1. [Main] GS (+2 Stab)
1. [Secondary] Policy: Progress
1. [Secondary] More Boats/Build Watchtowers or something else to make southshore saver

While our Provinces do take Main Study actions

No7sHere · May 21, 2017

I wouldn't worry to much about the martial overflow right now, things in the lowlands are about to kick off we will have the chance to burn our martial stat then.

tryrar · May 21, 2017

@Academia Nut if we have Progress Policy set and start running low on mysticism, Study Stars/Expand Holy Site gets prioritized correct?

In the same token, if we set policy to Progress, with an active challenge the provinces would prioritize actions that complete the challenge right? Does this include stability actions in this case even though that's not part of Progress?

ctulhuslp · May 21, 2017

godofsmallthings said:
[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

We need to offload our Martial stats somewhere. If it doesn't work we can just integrate it later.

Also next turn we could just change policy to studying stuff.

Eh. We need Stability to solve it and we need to defend from the southern assholes. So either Offensive, Defensive or Restoration would be a better bet, honestly.

sidestory said:
1. [Main] GS (+2 Stab)
1. [Secondary] Policy: Progress
1. [Secondary] More Boats/Build Watchtowers or something else to make southshore saver

While our Provinces do take Main Study actions

I sorely doubt our provinces will take -Stability actions; we can offload Survey and Study Health to them, but that's about it. Still worthwhile in terms of actions though.

Lydia · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Study Metal (-1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights)

notgreat · May 21, 2017

[X] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

@Academia Nut
Are the provinces aware of the exact requirements and will they thus attempt to fulfill them as best they're able within the policy we set?

If so I'm thinking Policy: Balanced is our best bet, but it's also the riskiest since we won't be able to predict what the provinces will do.
The alternative is Progress. That means we'll have to take Restoration actions manually and build the mine ourselves, but that shouldn't be too hard.

Assuming we find iron via this survey, the Progress plan could be:
[Main] New Settlement - <New Iron Site>
[Secondary] Change Policy - Progress
[Secondary] Expand Economy
Provinces:
[Main] Study <Tailings/Metal>
[Main] Study Health
[Secondary] Study Stars

With Policy - Balanced, we can do basically anything that leads towards the completion of the requirements and we should be fine, but we can't really predict it accurately.

Spacegnom · May 21, 2017

[X] No, stay at home
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

No7sHere · May 21, 2017

With our new military tech I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing our enemies faces when they find out just what we've got. I don't actually want war but some part of me is looking forward to the schadenfreude.

BlueFlamingWings · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

pblur said:
I think our biggest mid-term military threat is from the notPersians. They have the administrative capacity to manage our people, and are probably the only faction with high population than us.

The notPersians? Are you speaking of the Eastern Thunder Horse? Keep in mind two things. First, the distances involved - they are far away and on the opposite side of the HK, the Xehorossi, and the Thunder Speakers. Secondly, no one is really a "threat" anymore (that feels so cocky to say). They are just beginning to understand Bronze Working but the People have a monopoly on iron, for now. I think we should take advantage of that while we can.

Necratoid said:
The HK maybe, but settling towards the TH and the TS is giving up a major deterrent to invasion. The HK are doing that right now and I fully expect it to suck The People into a war in time unless TH implodes.

Which is why I'm not proposing we settle to the south at all. There's so much free land to the north.

You know, once we take it from the nomads.

sidestory · May 21, 2017

ctulhuslp said:
I sorely doubt our provinces will take -Stability actions; we can offload Survey and Study Health to them, but that's about it. Still worthwhile in terms of actions though.

Considering the fluff I think they would & even if they wouldn't that only leaves them with study health, study forests or study stars, so as long as they don't take the study forest option, we would gain something from it

ctulhuslp said:
. We need Stability to solve it and we need to defend from the southern assholes. So either Offensive, Defensive or Restoration would be a better bet, honestly.

Neither offence or defence would help here, both would just bleed our econ dry and offence would cause even more strife as we overflow matrial, something which AN warned us about

Necratoid · May 21, 2017

ctulhuslp said:
Nope. With Hathatyn being dicks, Thunder Horses strengthening their hold over the Thunder Speakers and HK being probably up to no good, we'll soon have more than enough enemies for our warriors.

Oh dread The People will only be at max martial. Lets keeps lots and lots of bored military around without anything to do for half a generation.

Can you see why this is a bad idea? Hint: If they don't have something to do they will find something to do without direction. Can you hear the stability dropping?

ctulhuslp said:
If anything, right now steppes are actually our least dangerous border; turning southmost parts of Southshore into the mini-march would make much more sense, as would be making a march to our North-East.
And steppes are utterly painful to defend, as we've been shown.

Actually, the fact its relatively safe will give the MW march the chance it needs to fortify itself. This means we can use the maxed out military to handle the SW idiots without instantly needing to spend actions unstupiding the bored well armed people.

ctulhuslp said:
Actually, with this political climate, leaving Offensive on while expecting southern borders to erupt in fires seems like a...somewhat reasonable idea. We can rely on provinces to beat our enemies (Massed Fire + Iron Weaponry = They are not going to attack us after the first go for a long time), while we are busy solving the challenge.

Its already shifted over to economic actions as the provinces know more military than you know what to do with is a bad idea. Look at the turn and note that Stallions just did economic expansion.

Academia Nut · May 21, 2017

Entropy Engineer said:
Hey @Academia Nut just to finish this argument without having to push through "because history" is it possible for us to ever defeat the Nomads? As is the "crowding out" strat actually viable.

Establish a way of maintaining communications reliably across thousands of kilometres and a way to make the steppes be more favourable for agriculture rather than herding and you can conquer the steppes, yes.

ABalloonyChaos said:
Seems natural to want establish another march. If it more likely to be a colony, I would be all for it. but as it stands we do not really need more martial generation we need more stability and eco. I say use it next turn to root out the nomads from the metal workers.

Then build the March as you simply don't have the logistics to hit them otherwise.

ctulhuslp said:
if we go for Progress policy and, say, pick Study Metal option next turn, can we reasonably expect provinces to provide Study Health for us, seeing as it does not eat Stability?

Yes. They won't take Stability reducing actions, but stuff like Study Health they will take.

tryrar said:
if we have Progress Policy set and start running low on mysticism, Study Stars/Expand Holy Site gets prioritized correct?

Yes.

notgreat said:
Are the provinces aware of the exact requirements and will they thus attempt to fulfill them as best they're able within the policy we set?

Yes.

Inspirit · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

Goodbye positive stability, 'twas nice while it lasted, all of the five minutes we spent together was magical, soon to be mythical.

I really want to go and kick the nomads in the face, but they're a bit far away now. This also means the Trade Post is a much less attractive option, or it could offer a way of countering the nomad influence on the Metal Workers.

I'd love a look at Negaverse Nomads celebrating their win over the Metal Workers and access to bronze, only to find out we have iron

ABalloonyChaos · May 21, 2017

Necratoid said:
So your suggesting risking a military take over because you want to send the military after the same nomads? Having so much extra military is going to mean a Civ full of bored armed hot heads without a hobby.

Also, the new march means an easier attack venue to get to the nomads in question.

How would they be bored? They are about to go to war, so lets send them off. establishing another march is to patrol away from the action which would be redundant martial generation if we can actually kill/ subdue the nomads.
Also I don't think we would have the option if it was an instant lose /trap option. It might even be converted into something positive rather like stability? or Diplomacy rather than a detriment you thinking. We don't know exactly what will happen but establishing another march could have generate dangerous martial Values and just make more of those "...extra military is going to mean a Civ full of bored armed hot heads without a hobby." over time.

2xMachina · May 21, 2017

sidestory said:
[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

Actually how about to changing to Progress and thus allowing something like

1. [Main] GS (+2 Stab)
1. [Secondary] Policy: Progress
1. [Secondary] More Boats/Build Watchtowers or something else to make southshore saver

While our Provinces do take Main Study actions

I kinda prefer to be in control? I don't want to risk Province derping into Study Stars etc, or poorly pairly, like doing Metal + Tailings together, and Study Health by itself.

I would prefer to leave the Province to support us, by generating Econ/Mystic or doing GS for us.

Abby Normal · May 21, 2017

@Academia Nut Now that we're maxed on martial can you tell us whether its actually bad for us, or if, like with maxing other stats, its actually good but we're scared of red numbers?

sidestory · May 21, 2017

ABalloonyChaos said:
How would they be bored? They are about to go to war, so lets send them off. establishing another march is to patrol away from the action which would be redundant martial generation if we can actually kill/ subdue the nomads.

That's the thing both are actually not happening
Our warrior can't go to war because we don't have a casus belli yet, they also can't go raiding the nomads because there aren't any withing our range yet

Therefore you will have a whole generation of warrior that will be bored, unless we drop them into the march & thus give them something to do

Speed53066 · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

ctulhuslp · May 21, 2017

Necratoid said:
Oh dread The People will only be at max martial. Lets keeps lots and lots of bored military around without anything to do for half a generation.

Can you see why this is a bad idea? Hint: If they don't have something to do they will find something to do without direction. Can you hear the stability dropping?

Can you actually read what I've been posting about before incessant sniping? With the current political situation, they are not going to be bored, and steppe lands are basically a liability because of how hard they are to hold.

Academia Nut said:
Establish a way of maintaining communications reliably across thousands of kilometres and a way to make the steppes be more favourable for agriculture rather than herding and you can conquer the steppes, yes.

And that's why any and all steppe lands are basically a sunk cost which makes everything worse because ~nomads~.

Academia Nut said:
Yes. They won't take Stability reducing actions, but stuff like Study Health they will take.

Okay, so it makes things fairly straightforward-ish.

[X] No, stay at home
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Study Tailings (-1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights)
Next turn: Change Policy - Progress, Study Metal, wait for provinces to Study Health and Survey and do stuff; do GS with other secondary. After that, we need a new settlement and mine and to switch policy to Defensive. And that's about it, honestly.

pbluekan · May 21, 2017

[X] No, stay at home
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

sidestory · May 21, 2017

Abby Normal said:
@Academia Nut Now that we're maxed on martial can you tell us whether its actually bad for us, or if, like with maxing other stats, its actually good but we're scared of red numbers?

It's certainly bad, because it doesn't overflow into anything else

ctulhuslp · May 21, 2017

pbluekan said:
[X] No, stay at home
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

Provinces will do Survey and Study Health for us with either Balance or Progress, so voting for Survey does not make a lot of sense.

SyntheticSynthia · May 21, 2017

[X] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] Survey Lands (-1 Econ, improved odds of success)

PyroTechno · May 21, 2017

[X] [March] Yes, send out the warriors (-5 Martial, -2 Econ)
[X] [Caravan] Attempt peaceful contact
[X] [Challenge] Study Tailings (-1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights)

Paths of Civilization

Gardener of Human Happiness

Drifts wherever the wind may take me.

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

Somethin's Fucky ...

The Procrastination Pokemon