- Location
- United States
The value drift was caused because they kept absorbing nomad tribes and nomad values.
But now they HATE nomads, and they just got a huge population boost from our southern provinces--and with that comes more southern values.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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But now they HATE nomads, and they just got a huge population boost from our southern provinces--and with that comes more southern values.
- Location
- Germany
Intend matters a lot in these things
And the Intend of both Votes was to provide more defense in the nothern provinces
Therefore I would consider both the same
They weren't commies when they conquered the Steppe. We also can't really conquer the steppe without enlightenment era logistics and weaponry.
They were not communist when they conquered Siberia, not that communism and militarism are in any way incompatible.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Fine by me.
I actually don't mind if Main Forest wins. We'll have defensive cover in 3 turns definitively then.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Eh. Thanks for the correction. I've been up all night so...
Info soup in the skull.
- Location
- Central Europe
The question remains, if I haven't missed an AN post, whether Expand Forest-ST will give the Econ boost to us or the Stallions. Because, if it is the later then the two votes should probably be counted separate.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
............
You do realise that they went communist a full century or half a century in some cases, after conquering the last of the Nomads.
The entire Russian expansion was driven by Cossack campaigns, adventurous aristocrats and rapid fuedilisation and orthodoxation of the conquered lands which made them vulnerable to Nomads which starts a new round of conquest.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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Like I said up all night info soup in the skull.
- Location
- Germany
Not really, even if it doesn't, there was a similar Intend to help the Stallion Tribes when the Votes were made
If the intend would have been simple econ gain, then there would have been other actions that could have been taken
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Actually we can, the Russian Cossacks and most nobility of the era where "loyal" independent armies. You don't have to worry about logistics, since there is no connected logistics each square kilometre is its own logistical theatre. Nobility and mounted dispersed militaries where the only way to fight in large land expanses before the invention of the train. It's how empires like Russia and the ottomans and hapsburg Spain could become so large and fight entire campaigns despite it taking a year or more for information to get to the capital.
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While BungieOni was wrong, what you have written here is, at best, a gross oversimplification.
How the russian steppes were conquered was a mess, with huge swaths of lands "conquered" in name only, additional to that there were de facto independent states that were less connected to the central government than our "march" for centuries, private armies, and cossack "armies" which were nomad tribes by other name.
This is a fascinating and long story that really cannot be summed up shortly.
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WE WILL INVENT THE WAGONWAY AND HAVE OUR PROTO-RAIL NETWORK AND THE NOMADS ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT!
Ahem. We basically have military nobility already.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
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*adds another Project to the list, next to Concrete*
Bit poorly formatted.
- Location
- Central Europe
Mhh, I feel you could argue that Expand Forest - ST should count towards Expand Forest (same defensiv intend as you pointed out), but IMO the reverse is not true. IF Expand Forest - ST where not to return Econ than it is definitly a different vote than normal Expand Forest.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Yes av simplified and as you said the conquered lands where semi independent, but again t in a feudal empire, semi independence isn't unexpected. And that semi independence was "rapidly" squashed as they were settled and "orthodoxiesed" and made more like the Russian West :Immensely powerful feudal Lords at the total mercy of the tzar.
Ofcourse direct control of the area by central government and the dismantling of the private armies near impossible and rendered more so by the technology of the era. But as far as the world and the tzar was concerned the Stepps were effectively Russian lands. Minus a few wars and rebellions.
OK thats a bit oversimplified but it's kinda the gest of it.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
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- Ranch
Bloody hell yer right it's too damn simplified.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Oh, and aren't the Stepps rather poor soil for forests? I mean there is a reason the Stepps are a sea of grass without a tree in sight.
So how exactly are we gonna plant a forest?
So how exactly are we gonna plant a forest?
- Location
- United States
We have access to Black Soil. It's not going to be impossible for us. And once the roots dig deep the forest will begin producing its own nutritious soil.
[X] [Main] More Carrion Eaters
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Expansion
[X] [Secondary] Build Chariots
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Expansion
[X] [Secondary] Build Chariots