[X] [Main] Expand Forests - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs

Just in case it wasn't obvious what we intended.
 
[X] [Main] Expand Forests
[X] [Secondary] Study Forests
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
Adhoc vote count started by Kiba on May 17, 2017 at 12:45 AM, finished with 35807 posts and 36 votes.
 
[X] [Main] Expand Forests
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
 
Ugh, tactical voting time I guess

[X] [Main] Expand Forests
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim glory

We don't need the Glory right now, but it's better than the support which is basically just a wasted action when we can just provide direct support anyway.
 
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 1427 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.0
Task: Main
[26][Main] Expand Forests
[4][Main] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliff
[2][main] Expand Forests - Stallion Tribes
[2][Main] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[1][Main] Integrate March
[1][Main] Proclaim Glory
[1][Main] More Carrion Eaters

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Secondary
[24][secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[18][Secondary] Support Subordinate - Stallion Tribes
[13][Secondary] Proclaim glory
[5][Secondary] Survey Lands
[5][Secondary] Study Forests
[3][Secondary] Study Metal
[1][Secondary] New Settlement-Bleeding Cliff
[1][Secondary] Study Tailings
[1][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[1][Secondary] Policy change-Expansion
[1][Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliff x2
[1][Secondary] Art Patronage
Total No. of Voters: 37
Umm...

Those of you voting for Support do realize that it only gives them one martial and one econ?
 
Are our horses even large enough yet
Almost certainly not, although considering we have a tradition of selective breeding cows, and an emphasis on quality and chariots- we've probably got some of the more impressive horse specimens.

[x][Main] Expand Forests
[x][secondary] Proclaim Glory
[x][secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
 
[X] [Main] Expand Forests
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory

Sorry Study Forest, but I really don't want Support to win ._.
 
[X] [Main] Expand Forests - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate - Stallion Tribes

[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory

I want that legitimacy - low stability is one thing, but legitimacy protects us from some really nasty stuff. Also, if we luck into Stab boosts we don't want to be capped early.
 
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[X] [Main] Expand Forests - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim glory
 
Really, Support Subordinate seems useful in three ways. Rapidly recovering a damaged vassal, furthering the growth of a subordinate we established- colonies/trade post/marches really, and basically giving us an excuse to station citizens and domestic soldiers in our vassals to encourage cultural assimilation.
 
Those of you voting for Support do realize that it only gives them one martial and one econ?
Not only is that still pretty good - they're supposed to be our Martial wall against the Nomads anyway - but with their current stats so low, I'm pretty sure not taking Support will trigger our new Honour value's Con:
New Honour Code Slot Opened Up!
New Honour Code Developed!

Lord's Loyalty
The ties between the People bind tight, and while this increases the obligations of the superior, it also makes the subordinate more likely to listen.
Pros: +1 Subordinate States, subordinate states less likely to break away
Cons: Minimum force commitment in defence of subordinates and allies increased one step, worse consequences for failure to assist

Side-note: It's now an Honour Code instead of an Honour value. Any significance to that?
 
Diplomacy 14 (max, overflowing) [+1 Art]

Still overflowing.

Economy 7->4

Just the expense paid

Martial 8->6

Lost three to expenses. Gained 1 from successful war mission?

March Econ 3
March Martial 1

Lord's Loyalty
The ties between the People bind tight, and while this increases the obligations of the superior, it also makes the subordinate more likely to listen.
Pros: +1 Subordinate States, subordinate states less likely to break away
Cons: Minimum force commitment in defence of subordinates and allies increased one step, worse consequences for failure to assist
Ooo, actually with this I think we might actually be better served with keeping the March independent since we have assurance of loyalty and it lets us double up war missions for them without switching Policy to Offense.

This actually synergizes powerfully with Symphony and Elitism.

Rage Against the Steppes - Always have a casus belli with Subdue Tribe or Humiliate War Goal against steppe nomads
We have a grudge, written in stone. It is the Law now, "Fucking up Nomads is always Harmonious"

As news of the terrible losses swept path and forth across the Lands of the People and the king and the chiefs, a terrible and fey mood seized upon the People. Their compatriots suffered in the north, and what was to be done? The rest of chiefs and shamans was perturbed, a terrible guilt weighing upon them, especially those who called for capitulation. Why should they cease fighting for their homes? Why should they be the ones shamed and embarrassed for having the temerity to stand up for themselves, for defending themselves from aggression they in no way invited?

Protective Justice: "We must protect those who protect us. This is Justice!"
Honorable Death: "Death holds no fear when it is in service to the People!"
Divine Stewards: "This land is OURS bitches!"
Symphony: "UNITED WE STAND!"
The Greater Good: "FOR THE GREATER GOOD!"

*The Ymaryn have entered a Fey Mood!*
Something snapped within them. As one the People called out that the king must keep fighting, must offer up as much support as was in his power to do so. Young men begged to be allowed to go north to fight or even just repair the pillaged farms, and while many were turned away, a sense of something greater buoyed the People, driving them onward. A great rope that stretched from lowliest half-exile to the king drew taut and vibrated like a bowstring ready to fire.

Policy Switched to Offence
...Did we just change the whole turn to War Missions?
Because that looks like we converted the whole turn into War Missions. Committed every last point of Martial, and then committed the Econ too.

Once more chariot archers swept out from the hills, and this time when they joined up with the depleted but reinforced warriors of the Stallions they had murder on their minds. To them this was no longer simply repulsing raids or even war, but the excising of a canker from a blighted tree. And for the nomads, clearly thinking that the People were on the back foot and nearing depletion of will and warriors, they were caught completely off guard by this sudden surge of resistance, and an entire tribe camped out by Stallionpen to keep the People within trapped had the majority of their male population put to the mace. Still though the Stallions suffered, their warriors milled down once more to almost nothing.
Man, they ticked our dudes off enough that we just plain exterminated every adult male in the tribe hit.
And then the tribes simply fell back one day. Whether their new king had decided that something else was more important or he wanted to fade away to spring back up later or he died and those under him fragmented none could say, just that the tribes faded back into the endless seas of grass.
Nomads: "Those guys are goddamned psychos. We'll be back, we need to get a bigger Waagh!"

More seriously, remember, they have Ancestral Honor or something like it. Family lineages matter.
We killed an entire tribe where they could see.
Might have triggered a Stability hit their Boss needs to rally them for.

Expand Economy - Encourage the growth of food producing activities such as farming, pastures, or fishing, depending on where focus is placed
* +1 Econ, potential additional effects
* 12 uses remain before requiring new territory
12 uses left. We spent 4 on Provincial Expands last turn.

Found Colony - When a province gets too distant, sometimes it is best to grant it additional autonomy so that they can get down to the business of working the land and gathering resources without needing to talk to the king about every little thing. Current Target: West of Black River
*M: -4 Econ, -2 Martial, founds colony to produce raw resources

Found March - Sometimes you need an extra buffer between you and hostile powers, or a place to stash excess warriors. Current Target: North-East
*M: -5 Martial, -2 Econ, founds march to take independent martial actions

Found Trading Post - When doing long distance trading, sometimes having your own infrastructure in place at the other end can be quite useful. Current Target: Greenshore River Mouth (Metal Workers)
*M: -5 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Martial, founds trading post to generate Diplomacy
And now we can intentionally start a Periphery State.
Colony presumably would be used to claim resource rich zones. Probably will send Economy home? Or just minerals and region locked plants?
Marches for the obvious defensive qualities.
Trading Posts will be basically an Embassy I think. Performs Salt Gift and Tech Steal for us.

Integrate March - Better communications and administration means that the Stallion Tribes can be integrated into the People more fully, transitioning from a March to a province
*M: -6 Diplomacy, gain Econ and Martial from integrating March
Not good I think. We've just had proof. If we integrate them we can't hold them.

Study Metal - Iron and copper, gold and silver, what other secrets are hidden in metal and stone?
* S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights
Once we have an iron mine, Maining this would start work towards a Steel. Not that hard compared to the leap to iron.
Study Tailings - A few generations of copper mining has built up a number of tailings pits, might there be any new insights within?
*S: -1 Mysticism, tiny chance of new insights
* M: -1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights
What Copper Tailings contain:
-Sulfuric acid
-Iron Pyrite(yes, even if there's no iron in the copper ore, the sulfur will leach it out of the ground)

Which is to say, yes, we can reprocess our mine tailings to produce even MORE metal.

Support Subordinate - Send resources over to a subordinate state to help prop them up.
*S: Transfer 1 Econ and Martial
*M: Transfer 2 Econ and Martial
We kind of need it right now, look at their stats:
March Econ 3
March Martial 1

Yes, we can support them with War Missions. But they need to be able to endure the initial impact, or they'd straight out be overrun before they can tell us that they're being attacked. They can restore 4 points of Martial this turn, but Admin roll determines if it's soon enough to help them.
At least give them the 2 Martial they need to handle a Main War Mission while they rebuild.

Incidentally, after the last turn, I suspect we might unlock a Great Wall with Iron Mine.
Because fuck the Nomads.

And my vote:
[X][Main] Expand Forests
[X][Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
[X][Secondary] Support Subordinate

Main thing is to send the Stallion Tribes something to tide them over. They need to be able to tank at least long enough for our dudes to go over there.
 
Main thing is to send the Stallion Tribes something to tide them over. They need to be able to tank at least long enough for our dudes to go over there.
They'll almost certainly grab a [Main] Build Chariots which will bring their Martial up to 5. Probably pair that with 2x Expand Economy, and we're boosting their economy via the forests anyway.

Not only is that still pretty good - they're supposed to be our Martial wall against the Nomads anyway - but with their current stats so low, I'm pretty sure not taking Support will trigger our new Honour value's Con:


Side-note: It's now an Honour Code instead of an Honour value. Any significance to that?
It's always been Code. Not sure why, but that's how it's been ever since we got Humility.

Also, we are assisting via direct military aid. We're just not feeding them and sending them permanent residents.

Unless it turns out the stats get multiplied during the transfer (due to different hidden multipliers) The "Support Subordinates" action is inherently wasteful- it costs 1 action for no real benefit- no tech, sum stats between the two doesn't change, we don't get any diplomacy. They've got enough econ to boost themselves to Martial 5, that's enough to withstand a raid until we can provide additional support via War Missions.
 
[X] [Main] Expand Forests - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] Support Subordinate - Stallion Tribes
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs
 
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[X] [Main] Expand Forests
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim glory
[X] [Secondary] New Settlement - Bleeding Cliffs

I would actually like study forest more than proclaim glory, but with the vote numbers right now I would rather proclaim glory more than support subordinate. Unless of course there is some sort of hidden multiplier or something.
 
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