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Paths of Civilization

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[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
 
drake_azathoth said:
...Ideologue is not a complimentary term. And no, one can genuinely support an ideology without being an ideologue.

Definition of IDEOLOGUE
  1. 1: an impractical idealist : theorist
  2. 2: an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology
To be clear, I support a meritocracy and oppose hereditary rule. I do not blindly support meritocracy and oppose hereditary rule when such a gesture is very impractical.
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An ideal of absolutes requires the adherents be also absolutist. The blind zeal of the ideologue is but correct adherence.
 
Omegahugger said:
Speaking of, since our Mysticism represents our amount of (free) shamans and our shamans have an above average rate of queerness, does that mean that we are literally overflowing with gay right now? Because that would be kinda wonderful.
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Firstly that'd be weird not wonderful, but it'd be weird if it was overflowing with straight or anything else to cause it doesn't sound like anything but weirdness going on. Actually, saying it outloud makes it sound dumb to >.>, but still it sounds strange no matter what. :p
Second our shamans are not Just queers, its also hermaphrodites, those with sexual mutations, and normal people.
 
Tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on May 14, 2017 at 2:41 AM, finished with 33234 posts and 96 votes.
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Omegahugger said:

"Girls, how would you feel like us adding a man to the mix?"

Speaking of, since our Mysticism represents our amount of (free) shamans and our shamans have an above average rate of queerness, does that mean that we are literally overflowing with gay right now? Because that would be kinda wonderful.

[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
And why do I prefer remaining quiet?
  1. I'd like to keep our 3 Stability if at all possible, because a Golden Age like that is very delicious looking.
  2. I am not sure we can keep up our record of having all Admin Heroes in same-sex marriages right now, and you know how delusional I can get when my desires are just out of reach.
  3. "[ ] Give him her blessing to pursue his birthright"
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Ghostdevil said:
Firstly that'd be weird not wonderful, but it'd be weird if it was overflowing with straight or anything else to cause it doesn't sound like anything but weirdness going on. Actually, saying it outloud makes it sound dumb to >.>, but still it sounds strange no matter what. :p
Second our shamans are not Just queers, its also hermaphrodites, those with sexual mutations, and normal people.
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drake_azathoth said:
Fight on, VoidZero!
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Heh.

I'm on a Babylon 5 kick right now, and tying that into the speculation that we can be considered like spirits to these virtual people, I came to a very funny conclusion.

I feel like a Vorlon.

How odd is that? Any one else feel like that?

I am feeling an overwhelming fondness for the Ymaryn. The Highlanders are cute in that fashion pugs are. The Thunder Friends are great to watch especially when I think about them worshiping Rainbow Dash.

Wow I'm feeling really warm and fuzzy right now.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 14, 2017 at 3:02 AM, finished with 33238 posts and 97 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 14, 2017 at 3:30 AM, finished with 33245 posts and 101 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 14, 2017 at 3:44 AM, finished with 33250 posts and 102 votes.
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[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
 
Frankly, there's a massive risk of precedent being established here, one I haven't seen brought up. He has had kids with the various princesses we recieved from the HK and the Nomads. If he uses his position as king to legitimize them and recognize them as his own while taking the princesses he's already screwed as wives- he'll have done exactly what we were afraid of and then some. I sincerely don't think Academia Nut told us about him screwing around simply because it

And before someone spews some bs about Magwyna raising her son better- she sure as hell didn't raise him to fucking cuckold her and he did that. The fact is, we're letting a hero unit who's character is under some question seize power when he theoretically has all the tools he needs to ensure his family retains power.

Fuck. That.

drake_azathoth said:
Yeah, that's where I see the rub in this argument. Academia Nut has specifically said that Magwyna not speaking up for her son would be viewed as her seeing some horrible secret trait he has, not that she'd explain her decision to anyone else in context of trying to avoid hereditary rule or conflict of interest.

There is no real chance for a 'positive' precedent to be set or trait to be earned if people just assume her son is a secretly a creep. And in fact the reason Magwyna would not articulate any ideas about condemning her son 'on principle' is that it would be viewed as an abhorrent act by our society. It's just way too out of context as a reasoning our people would value.

I hate to make the comparison, but reaching for this feels like reaching for 'fair' taxes, it's a noble sentiment taken way too far to the point it just ignores the reality of the situation. Any ideology taken too far blindly can be problematic.
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To be fair, this guy cuckolded his mother. That's definitely up there in terms of creepy unpalatable behavior. It's not even necessarily off base for Magwyna to condemn her son's candidacy. He's not exactly shown moral fiber or any particular adherence to the values of the People- quite the opposite. But, what the fuck do we care about that right? We're a meritocracy! We care about results! Not the personal motivations and morality of the people we elect into power amirite?

Edit: And now people are proudly declaring themselves ideologues? What the shit.
 
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It was fairly clear that Mag intended for her 'wives' to be unfaithful. That's not even terribly unusual in straight political marriages, let alone blatantly for-show lesbianic ones with a straight woman.

Under those circumstances, it's not cuckoldry in any normal sense.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[x] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin]

veekie said:
Possible. Or an evolution on Humility?

Precedent is exactly the problem.

Our chiefs have been consistently favoring their own children regardless of whether they are a good choice. By favoring her own child, Magwyna is telling them "It's okay to do this, this is normal, I do it too", by standing aside from the choice and letting her advisors choose, she's telling them "being your child should not be a reason to consider them for leadership".

If they proceed to elect him, it sets a hallmark of Humility.
If they proceed to elect someone else, it weakens their ability to appoint heirs from their own family.

He is, and will be a fantastic Chief Clerk. His legacy is already ensured, if he doesn't fuck it up.
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Unfortunately, I don't see any reason to expect that to be a possible consequence. It's much too late to pushback against favoring their own families this way. It sounds like there is no chance they would even consider the possibility that she would not want to favor him.

I'm not sure what it would take, but the situation would need to be vastly more unambiguous than this. Maybe if we get lucky a neighbor can have generations of painful mismanagement from a line of terrible leaders (which produces a wave of refugees that carry a hatred of such things as a value)?

Umi-san said:
k*

I mean... it literally says it in your* quote, which is why I pointed it out.

But I am inclined to say that there is a chance that they will take his mother's lack of support on faith as an indication of a deep-rooted internal flaw rather than her attempting to maintain neutrality. This is all dependent on a die-roll, after all.
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I belive its more or less guaranteed that her lack of support will be taken as her actively not wanting him king.

Best case is more likely they jump to a non-damaging conclusion, as opposed to coming to the conclusion that she thinks nepotism is bad. Perhaps they might assume that she's holding a deep, angry (and well hidden, as she presumably has a good poker face) grudge against him for sleeping with her 'wives'?
 
[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[x] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

It's quite clear Magwyna has and has had relatively little interest in the affairs of her wives' love lives, or else there would be significantly less question of the parentage of the children in question. She deliberately aspired to indifference to the cuckoo's meddling in her nest. To slant her son's behaviour as anything other than incidental participation in a practice she, if not invited, at least acquiesced to, is disingenuous.

Let's not get carried away here.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)

I mean...precedent.

Besides, our greatest strength in leaders is making sure no bad heroes happen, which is more important than having good heroes.
 
M
Karugus said:
Frankly, there's a massive risk of precedent being established here, one I haven't seen brought up. He has had kids with the various princesses we recieved from the HK and the Nomads. If he uses his position as king to legitimize them and recognize them as his own while taking the princesses he's already screwed as wives- he'll have done exactly what we were afraid of and then some. I sincerely don't think Academia Nut told us about him screwing around simply because it

And before someone spews some bs about Magwyna raising her son better- she sure as hell didn't raise him to fucking cuckold her and he did that. The fact is, we're letting a hero unit who's character is under some question seize power when he theoretically has all the tools he needs to ensure his family retains power.

Fuck. That.


To be fair, this guy cuckolded his mother. That's definitely up there in terms of creepy unpalatable behavior. It's not even necessarily off base for Magwyna to condemn her son's candidacy. He's not exactly shown moral fiber or any particular adherence to the values of the People- quite the opposite. But, what the fuck do we care about that right? We're a meritocracy! We care about results! Not the personal motivations and morality of the people we elect into power amirite?

Edit: And now people are proudly declaring themselves ideologues? What the shit.
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Mate it's the highest of follies to presume ones own morality is that of others, more so when it societal morals rather than individual.

If were gonna use post copper age morality, why not say that the mother is a depraved amoral monster. After all she did marry a dozen women. That's without mentioning the lesbian aspect.

Edit : and yes I am a proud adherent to the supreme ideology of the blessed hereditary rule of our lady of eternal aristocracy.

Edit : and gold, you can't go wrong adhering to gold.
 
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More importantly, the internet has completely ruined talking about cuckolding and wanting to be taken seriously, regardless of the actual content of one's post. ;P
 
Karugus said:
Frankly, there's a massive risk of precedent being established here, one I haven't seen brought up. He has had kids with the various princesses we recieved from the HK and the Nomads. If he uses his position as king to legitimize them and recognize them as his own while taking the princesses he's already screwed as wives- he'll have done exactly what we were afraid of and then some. I sincerely don't think Academia Nut told us about him screwing around simply because it

And before someone spews some bs about Magwyna raising her son better- she sure as hell didn't raise him to fucking cuckold her and he did that. The fact is, we're letting a hero unit who's character is under some question seize power when he theoretically has all the tools he needs to ensure his family retains power.

Fuck. That.


To be fair, this guy cuckolded his mother. That's definitely up there in terms of creepy unpalatable behavior. It's not even necessarily off base for Magwyna to condemn her son's candidacy. He's not exactly shown moral fiber or any particular adherence to the values of the People- quite the opposite. But, what the fuck do we care about that right? We're a meritocracy! We care about results! Not the personal motivations and morality of the people we elect into power amirite?

Edit: And now people are proudly declaring themselves ideologues? What the shit.
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Look, I don't support the guy because I want more agency but making out sleeping with the ceremonial wives as some kind of deep moral failing is a bit silly. It's clear their position is a polite fiction, one aimed at outsiders yet.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
 
Here have a Tally since the last one was an hour and a half ago.

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 1308 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
No. of Votes: 95
McLuvin
10ebbor10
Abby Normal
AbeoLogos
aceraptor
Amador
Andres110
andrewopk
Arbit
Athanor
Athas
BlueFlamingWings
bluefur87
BungieONI
Carrnage
Cerillian
Chiperninerm
ConfusedPotato
Crazy7s1
ctulhuslp
Deathbybunnies
Dieb
Dirk93
DragonParadox
drake_azathoth
Dream Logic
Duesal
Entropy Engineer
ETA50M
Falconis
Fumbles
Gavoon
Ghostdevil
gigantisrex
Glassware
godofsmallthings
Hangwind
highs2lows
huhYeahGoodPoint
hylas240
Ian Drash
indra
kalugin
Karugus
keenscythe
kel
Kiba
Killer_Whale
kilopi505
Kingofbooks
Lilithium
lioli
Lunamoto
Malevolo
Manget
Marlin
maximillian
Motoko
Nicklance
No7sHere
notgreat
NotteBoy97
Oblivion2007
pbluekan
pblur
Piren'e Colass
Potato and Chip
Power
Powerofmind
Quest
Rakuhn
Reader of all
redzonejoe
RulerOfNothing
sidestory
Sivantic
Skjadir
Spectrum
StarkDemise
Stelarwand030
tenchifew
thatguy
Timewinders
TotallyNotEvil
tryrar
Tylonius
UbeOne
Umi-san
Uvigz
Varano
veekie
WeaponX1023
wingstrike96
zamin
zeusthemoose
[x] Support son (chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
No. of Votes: 55
McLuvin
10ebbor10
Abby Normal
AbeoLogos
Amador
Athanor
Athas
BlueFlamingWings
Carrnage
Cerillian
Chiperninerm
Citino
ConfusedPotato
Crazy7s1
Deathbybunnies
Dieb
DkArthas
DocMatoi
drake_azathoth
Duesal
Entropy Engineer
Falconis
Gavoon
Ghostdevil
gigantisrex
godofsmallthings
Golden Eyed King
hylas240
indra
kalugin
Katsuragi
kilopi505
Kingofbooks
Lilithium
Manget
maximillian
Motoko
notgreat
Oblivion2007
pblur
Piren'e Colass
Powerofmind
Quest
Reader of all
ScreenWatcher
Sightsear
Spectrum
StarkDemise
Stelarwand030
thatguy
TotallyNotEvil
UbeOne
Uvigz
Varano
zeusthemoose
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
No. of Votes: 45
Dirk93
aceraptor
Andres110
andrewopk
Arbit
bluefur87
ctulhuslp
DragonParadox
Dream Logic
ETA50M
Fumbles
Glassware
Hangwind
highs2lows
huhYeahGoodPoint
Ian Drash
Karugus
keenscythe
kel
Kiba
Killer_Whale
lioli
Lunamoto
Malevolo
Marlin
Nicklance
No7sHere
NotteBoy97
Omegahugger
pbluekan
Potato and Chip
Power
Rakuhn
redzonejoe
sidestory
Sivantic
Skjadir
tenchifew
Timewinders
tryrar
Tylonius
veekie
VoidZero
WeaponX1023
wingstrike96
[X] Attack Thunder Speakers to stop border raids (Declares war with goal of stopping attacks, Highlanders will join, likely brings in Thunder Horse and Xohyssiri)
No. of Votes: 1
VoidZero
Total No. of Voters: 104

Fusing the votes like this is apparently okay.

Please reference this quote by AN.

Academia Nut said:
I'm getting 42 to 34 in favour of supporting the son right now.
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It is kind of in answer to my question a few posts above.
 
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

On second thought, while this has issues as stated by others, HERO!
 
tryrar said:
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

On second thought, while this has issues as stated by others, HERO!
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What do you think of the idea of Yehlmyn, Yehlmyn-ing himself a Marcher wife and solving our headache?

It seems certainly possible, and a very Gwygo way to solve a problem that's been an issue for several generations.
 
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