Paths of Civilization

indra · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Kiba · May 13, 2017

Andres110 said:
@Academia Nut, how come we're only now voting for the heir? Isn't the heir supposed to be voted for on the death of the king, i.e. when Magwyna first became queen?

They designate the heir before the death of the king to have a smooth succession.

hylas240 · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Sivantic · May 13, 2017

godofsmallthings said:
FYI

This has been changed to just a chance of losing 1 legitimacy.

His other point still stands. We need someone better than mediocre in martial.

Academia Nut · May 13, 2017

Andres110 said:
how come we're only now voting for the heir? Isn't the heir supposed to be voted for on the death of the king, i.e. when Magwyna first became queen?

You have to have an election after the death of a king, but if you find a better candidate or the old one does something stupid you can hold a new election at most once a year to change the heir.

BungieONI · May 13, 2017

veekie said:
Have weak casus belli
[] Attack Thunder Speakers to stop border raids (Declares war with goal of stopping attacks, Highlanders will join, likely brings in Thunder Horse and Xohyssiri)

Exploits our current good stats to punish raids viciously. Helps cement the alliance with Highlanders, but this would also have a risk of either cementing their new allegiance or cause an early breakup.
Note that the Thunder Speakers and Xohyssiri JUST got their asses kicked recently, their armies are not in the best condition. But the Thunder Horse are too far to fight proper, which adds a chaos factor.

[] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)

Ensures that Magwyna's legacy is a golden age if it succeeds. Remember, Heroic Diplomat here. She has a decent chance and worst case nothing happens.

[] Ignore the issue (-1 Prestige, large chance of loss of stability)

Yeah no, most of the disadvantages and none of the advantages.

Question of succession
[] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Hurts our system to ensure we got a Hero Admin leader.
Noting that there is a non zero chance of war and he's not much of a warrior.
This is exactly the sort of example we don't want to set for subordinate chiefs. Remember Chariotman?

[] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)

Noting that he still has a chance of winning the title on his own and even if he fails at his bid for leadership, he'd probably still be the clerk chief.
Sets a powerful example of rising by your own merits. Might finish the realization Attrikwyn is currently arriving at.

For now:
[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)

Well veekie AN just downgraded the thing to a chance for a legitimacy drop. Thoughts were made apparently.

Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 13, 2017 at 8:34 PM, finished with 99 posts and 33 votes.

28 people have voted
[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
- McLuvin
- Manget
- Motoko
- Falconis
- godofsmallthings
- Powerofmind
- indra
- Kiba
- Lydia
- Tylonius
- sidestory
- Sivantic
- UbeOne
- Timewinders
- Crazy7s1
- Ancient Scholar
- Karugus
- bluefur87
- ETA50M
- Rakuhn
- BungieONI
- veekie
- drake_azathoth
- notgreat
- Duesal
- Spectrum
- hylas240
- BlueFlamingWings
15 people have voted
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)
- Kiba
- Lydia
- Tylonius
- sidestory
- Sivantic
- UbeOne
- Timewinders
- Crazy7s1
- Ancient Scholar
- Karugus
- bluefur87
- ETA50M
- Rakuhn
- BungieONI
- veekie
10 people have voted
[x] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
- McLuvin
- Manget
- Motoko
- Falconis
- godofsmallthings
- Powerofmind
- indra
- Sightsear
- Entropy Engineer
- Golden Eyed King
5 people have voted
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])
- drake_azathoth
- notgreat
- Duesal
- Spectrum
- hylas240
1 people have voted
[X] Magwyna should marry them personally (Secures alliance with Highlands Kingdom while Magwyna lives, has a small chance of triggering conflict with the nomads)
- Academia Nut
1 people have voted
[X] Remind people along trade routes that the People don't suffer the blue plague (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
- Academia Nut
1 people have voted
[x] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])w
- BlueFlamingWings

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

ETA50M said:
March leaders always have good marital stats and he'll be better off an administrator adviser.

It doesn't say that we'll get a March leader with good martial.

People keep saying that "we don't know".

We do know, in the update it states that the other guy will be Average.

Sivantic · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
It doesn't say that we'll get a March leader with good martial.

Mate you keep saying that "we don't know".

We do know, in the update it states that the other guy will be Average.

Stop making stuff up please

Except we know that the standard King is Good at everything, if not exceptional.

Carrnage · May 13, 2017

notgreat said:
Reverse nepotism is almost as bad as actual nepotism. Let the best rise to the top. She's pretty sure she raised her kid properly.

My biggest concern is that he is too polyarmorous and makes it fashionable causing social tension.

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Stelarwand030 · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Andres · May 13, 2017

veekie said:
[] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)

Ensures that Magwyna's legacy is a golden age if it succeeds. Remember, Heroic Diplomat here. She has a decent chance and worst case nothing happens.

It will ensure we stay at Stability 3 regardless of if we succeed or not. The drop in stability from the other option only comes from not doing anything. Also, it may need to stay at Stability 3 for more than just a single turn. Just so you don't get disappointed if it's not just 1 turn and you then swear to never let it stay there for multiple turns in revenge.

[x] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)

aceraptor · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Remain quiet (Next king is probably standard)

Thinking things through, I don't want any chance of losing legitimacy. Especially with the Stallion Tribe/march chief still rather disgruntled.

ETA50M · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
It doesn't say that we'll get a March leader with good martial.

Mate you keep saying that "we don't know".

We do know, in the update it states that the other guy will be Average.

Stop making stuff up please

Standard leaders have good stats overall...they aren't heroic with a few great stats with the rest being horrible. A standard leader with good martial not saying heroic but good martial is needed here.

Abby Normal · May 13, 2017

Academia Nut said:
General
Diplomacy 10 [+1]
Economy 10 (+1+2)
Martial 8

Stability
Stability 3 (emboldened)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Organizational
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6

Cultural
Art 12
Mysticism 14 (max, overflowing) (+1 Art)
Prestige 9

Diplo 9 [+1] -> 10 (+1)
Just the salt bonus, no expenses or gains.

Econ 5(+2) -> 10 (+1+2)
5 + 2 (Last turn's settlements) + 5 (Refugees) + 2 (Heroic Crit) - 1 (Walls) - 3 (Grand Sacrifice) = 10 - +1 end of turn from main settlement, +2 from sec settlement and badlands (which counts as secondary with a main action used)

Martial 8 -> 8
No Change

Stability 2 -3
2 + 1 (Heroic Crit) + 2 (Grand Sacrifice) - (1-2) Refugees = 3
I didn't see any fluff that would correspond to stab trying and failing to overflow, so i think we did take the extra stab hit...one of these days we will trigger GG!

No change to legit or cent or hierarchy

Art 10 -> 12
just the overflow from mysticism last turn
Mysticism 14 (max, overflowing) (+1 Art)
New holy site from main settlement (badlands counts as secondary and doesn't get one)

Academia Nut said:
Heroic Admin Critical!
+2 Econ
+1 Stability
New Admin Tech: Primitive Indexing

Woot!

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Going with this for now...i hate to (possibly) lose both legitimacy and stability, taking up an action or 2 and costing us ability to try for golden age...also, possible push towards hereditary stuff...but i also really want another heroic admin...especially because frankly i trust an admin hero to make better decisions than us, frankly

@Academia Nut do we know if primitive indexing would have improved the centralization or hierarchy tolerance, or do we have to get to yellow to see that?

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

Sivantic said:
Except we know that the standard King is Good at everything, if not exceptional.

He's not Heroic though, and we have a trait that lessens the possibility of getting heroic characters, thus the opportunity to gain two Heroic character leaders in a row is, from a purely logical and gaming standpoint, too good to pass up.

The fact that we want a meritocracy and he's the best for the job also makes it the best choice from a story standpoint.

Dieb · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

Turning down the ACTUAL best candidate hurts our meritocracy more than the possibility it looks like nepotism. Look at AN's posts guys, he's the best candidate for the job. Plus Legitimacy is fairly easy to get back, a secondary Proclaim Glory only costs 2 Art, which we are full of anyway.

Killer_Whale · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (-1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

hylas240 · May 13, 2017

Sivantic said:
Except we know that the standard King is Good at everything, if not exceptional.

A standard king is average...saying they exceptional is just exaggerating the benefits of your side of the discussion.

Also, our king having mediocre martial is easily compensated by the war chief (citing our current king as my example.)

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

ETA50M said:
Standard leaders have good stats overall...they aren't heroic with a few great stats with the rest being horrible. A standard leader with good martial not saying heroic but good martial is needed here.

See above post
Edit: Fuck you guys move fast, see my post before this one

sidestory · May 13, 2017

Powerofmind said:
Not nepotism if he's legitimately talented.

Doesn't matter if it is or not, what matters is what it seems to be on the outside and how people remember it

Karugus said:
So. Main Chariots, Secondary Warriors, policy defensive?

Nope, generates to much Matrial, not to mention now that our provinces ran out of places to settle they will probably go and expand the forests everywhere

Also considering that there is still the issue with the March & the fact that Redhills still lacks trails for quick response & easy travel I would like to suggest a double New Trails in hope to integrate the March further & allow the chance for a tech upgrade for New Trails

Deathbybunnies · May 13, 2017

[X] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[X] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

It's a chance of a legitimacy drop - which we should be able to fix - and a single good heir widely considered the best available candidate is a very different thing to codifying hereditary rule to keep closer ties to a foreign nation. If this happens again next turn we'll take the Standard king instead of the heir, but for one generation we can take the risk of perceived nepotism.

Abby Normal said:
[] Send an envoy to request the Thunder Speakers rein in youths (-2 Diplomacy, chance of TS king actually complying, small chance of triggering war)
[] Support son (Chance of -1 Legitimacy, heir becomes Yehlmyn [Mediocre Martial, Good Diplomacy, Heroic Admin])

You gotta X those in to vote!

godofsmallthings · May 13, 2017

ETA50M said:
Pretty sure we turned down like 3 heroic characters in a row just because they were from the March.

I think it was just two heroes and I am pretty sure that one of the was a hero for "plot reasons". So there is no guarantee that we will get a better candidate.

Hell I don't think there has ever been a time when two heroic candidates were spawned in the same turn. So the son is literally the best candidate.

Sivantic said:
His other point still stands. We need someone better than mediocre in martial.

He is a heroic admin, he will delegate it to the best person, just like his mother did to great success in the last turn.

McLuvin · May 13, 2017

sidestory said:
Doesn't matter if it is or not, what matters is what it seems to be on the outside and how people remember it

Academia Nut actually said that everybody agrees he should be next king, it's just that if his own mother refuses to endorse him despite that then people will think something's wrong with him and try to block him off.

ETA50M · May 13, 2017

McLuvin said:
He's not Heroic though, and we have a trait that lessens the possibility of getting heroic characters, thus the opportunity to gain two Heroic character leaders in a row is, from a purely logical and gaming standpoint, too good to pass up.

The fact that we want a meritocracy and he's the best for the job also makes it the best choice from a story standpoint.

That's pretty hypocritical since we turned down 3 heroic leaders from the March due to politics and persevering our government type yet yell meritocracy when it'll undermine our government and isn't the best choice to lead us into war.

drake_azathoth · May 13, 2017

Hang on a second. Does a standard king have good or average stats? Those are different things entirely by the scale AN uses and I was under the impression the standard king was just average all around.

Mediocre is just under average, so the gap between mediocre and average isn't much, but the gap between mediocre and good is quite significant. The difference between 'average king' and 'good king' is huge, so I'd like to be very clear as to which we'd actually get with the standard stat layout.

Academia Nut said:
Yes.
I'm being a bit loosey-goosey, but it's something like non-existant->awful->poor->mediocre->average->above average->good->exceptional->heroic

Paths of Civilization

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Human

High Clerk of the Ymaryn