Question to you two. If it is as Veekie says and the Eastern Hills are metal rich, what sort of metal might be there? We already have Azurite and Malacite at Blue Stone Quarry. Which I think became Stonepen?

Badlands can be salt flats which are remnants of old oceans. So what metal forms under oceans?
We don't have enough information to know the geology to take a truly accurate guess. The reason it would be a good place to look for metal is because it would be immensely easier without all the trees in the way.

Oh, omg the response was about the Eastern Hills not the Badlands, kk.
Yeah, veekie keeps on confusing the two. It's driving me mad!
 
Not sure what you're asking here, but I'll try and clear the misunderstanding I'm seeing.

New Settlement - There are a few new sites that could have new settlements placed on them: a new settlement within Redcoast (can go further north or south), badlands, eastern hills
* S: +1 Econ next turn, increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken
* M: +1 Econ and +1 Mysticism end of turn, increases the number of times Expand Econ can be taken
Special: Badlands settlement requires a Main action to work at all and only returns as a Secondary, but increases response time and decreases logistics for movement in and out of the badlands
Special: Main action for Eastern Hills produces a new province
There are two settlement possibilities. The one for the Eastern Hills, which creates a new province, and the one for the Badlands, which is closer to the cataract and meant to basically be a fort for logistics in dealing with the Lowlands.
 
Step 1:
[] [Main] New Settlement: Badlands
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival.
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, new town increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken, +1 Mysticism, +1 Stability, a chance for additional effects from festival. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn.

Step 2:
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[] [Secondary] Expand Black Soil
Takes -3 Econ, +1 Mysticism, -3 Art, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects from soil.

We don't have enough information to know the geology to take a truly accurate guess. The reason it would be a good place to look for metal is because it would be immensely easier without all the trees in the way.


Yeah, veekie keeps on confusing the two. It's driving me mad!
But we already have metal stones in the Blue Stone Quarry? Azurite is a copper ore. So is Malacite. Should we Study Rocks and then Survey Lands after we get through the next turn?
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 16, 2017 at 1:06 AM, finished with 17246 posts and 79 votes.
 
But we already have metal stones in the Blue Stone Quarry? Azurite is a copper ore. So is Malacite. Should we Study Rocks and then Survey Lands after we get through the next turn?
I'd secure the Eastern Hills before bothering to survey them. It's also more of a question of quantity than having it at all. I'm not confident in one settlement supporting the copper needs of our entire kingdom. :V
 
Why is that the textbook definition of where to look for metal ores? Does water leech the metal away?
I thought the textbook definition of where to look for metal ores was in a mountain, in particular a dwarven lair.
Groundcover makes the discovery process much harder, see as in our main territory, how do you survey for particular kinds of rock when all the rocks are buried under 3-4 meters of rich topsoil, anchored by ancient tree roots?

Water makes the discovery of certain ores harder, as the erosion tends to wash them away, or cover them in mud.
Overall, dry rocky grounds are where you can most easily find ores, not because they are there more often, but because it's far easier to identify a deposit without investing significant amounts of labor into exploratory digs.
Well that and hills tend to have metamorphic or igneous rock, which tends to have more veins of minerals as well. See the Spirit Talkers and their pyrite, and the Metalworkers being also on dry hills.
 
Not sure what you're asking here, but I'll try and clear the misunderstanding I'm seeing.


There are two settlement possibilities. The one for the Eastern Hills, which creates a new province, and the one for the Badlands, which is closer to the cataract and meant to basically be a fort for logistics in dealing with the Lowlands.
Oh no, it's cleared up. I've been referencing poorly filed memories.

Apparently depending on your memory for debate is a BIT problematic when you've spent the past three days under various degrees of heatstroke.
Had to reorganize them, not sure if it takes :)
 
I'd secure the Eastern Hills before bothering to survey them. It's also more of a question of quantity than having it at all. I'm not confident in one settlement supporting the copper needs of our entire kingdom. :V
Is the Blue Stone in the Eastern Hills? I thought the area we found the Blue stone was deep in our territory. For the risk of exaggeration, I thought it was literally right next to Valleyhome? I is confused.
 
Should we Study Rocks and then Survey Lands after we get through the next turn?
Yes.

I'm pretty sure no1 is going to be gung-ho r.e. expanding settlements south/east-ward until we've assimilated the northern coastal minors and reinforced their position with Expand Forest.

Well that and hills tend to have metamorphic or igneous rock, which tends to have more veins of minerals as well. See the Spirit Talkers and their pyrite, and the Metalworkers being also on dry hills.
We have hills in our main territory, too, which presumably have some amount of exposed sides, e.g. the Blue Quarry. But yes, that is understandable. I'd suggest that the Badlands is likely to be even easier because the river will have been washing dirt and some stone away so that rocks and veins are even more visible than in dirt-but-less-groundcover-y rolling hills.
 
Yes.

I'm pretty sure no1 is going to be gung-ho r.e. expanding settlements south/east-ward until we've assimilated the northern coastal minors and reinforced their position with Expand Forest.


We have hills in our main territory, too, which presumably have some amount of exposed sides, e.g. the Blue Quarry. But yes, that is understandable. I'd suggest that the Badlands is likely to be even easier because the river will have been washing dirt and some stone away so that rocks and veins are even more visible than in dirt-but-less-groundcover-y rolling hills.
Can someone clear this up? Where in our territory is the Blue Quarry which has the Azurite?

Thanks Tryrar!
 
But yes, going into the Badlands or Eastern Hills sounds like a good spot to survey for more cooper/metal sources, as difficult as it would be to do so in the Badlands' case. Fun Fact: One of the earliest known copper mining sites was done in the desert hills of Jordan, which had plentiful exposed malachite.
 
[X][Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[x] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[X] [Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
 
We have hills in our main territory, too, which presumably have some amount of exposed sides, e.g. the Blue Quarry. But yes, that is understandable. I'd suggest that the Badlands is likely to be even easier because the river will have been washing dirt and some stone away so that rocks and veins are even more visible than in dirt-but-less-groundcover-y rolling hills.
That's kind of the problem. The Blue Quarry was only exposed when a hillside collapsed, because the top layer of the highly noticable Azurite had oxidized to the rather unremarkable Malachite. Our Sacred Forest and Black Soil use actively gets in the way here, since we maintain a healthy layer of topsoil and undergrowth, minimizing collapses and overall means a ground survey must undo our work to even get to the clay layer, much less the rock layer. Ironically, if we left the Blight alone, we'd have ended up with more ores, because of all the collapsing slopes from dying trees exposing buried rocks.

And the thing is, if there's a river in rocky hills...we aren't going to get very far on limited metal tools. If it was easy to dig through the River already did it. Mining without iron tools is miserable. Mining with copper is just as miserable, but at least somewhat less painful than replacing your stone tools daily. It's probably a good target once we have an in-house source of copper tools though.
 
We probably need to take two turns to lick our wound. Unless the DP start attacking, I wouldn't waste time starting a badland settlements.
 
That's kind of the problem. The Blue Quarry was only exposed when a hillside collapsed, because the top layer of the highly noticable Azurite had oxidized to the rather unremarkable Malachite. Our Sacred Forest and Black Soil use actively gets in the way here, since we maintain a healthy layer of topsoil and undergrowth, minimizing collapses and overall means a ground survey must undo our work to even get to the clay layer, much less the rock layer. Ironically, if we left the Blight alone, we'd have ended up with more ores, because of all the collapsing slopes from dying trees exposing buried rocks.

And the thing is, if there's a river in rocky hills...we aren't going to get very far on limited metal tools. If it was easy to dig through the River already did it. Mining without iron tools is miserable. Mining with copper is just as miserable, but at least somewhat less painful than replacing your stone tools daily. It's probably a good target once we have an in-house source of copper tools though.
New method of digging. Create a pick using your current stone pick out of the stone you're digging. Use to replace after your current pick breaks. It's genius!
 
We probably need to take two turns to lick our wound. Unless the DP start attacking, I wouldn't waste time starting a badland settlements.
This action path covers our problems pretty nicely. The reason we want a Badlands settlement is that this gigantic clusterfrak is a great opening to stretch a little.

Step 1:
[] [Main] New Settlement: Badlands
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival.
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission Metal Workers
Takes -2 Econ, +1 Econ next turn, new town increases number of times Expand Econ can be taken, +1 Mysticism, +1 Stability, a chance for additional effects from festival. Trade Mission to MW -1 Diplo, additional effects depending on target, +1-2 Diplo end of of turn.

Step 2:
[] [Main] Proclaim Glory
[] [Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[] [Secondary] Expand Black Soil
Takes -3 Econ, +1 Mysticism, -3 Art, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige, +1 Econ next turn, additional effects from soil.
 
@Academia Nut Two things:

1)If we do a survey, can we target it? In other words, would Survey-Badlands be a legal action we could take?
2)What Province would the Badlands Settlement be, Valleyhome or a brand new one?
 
1)If we do a survey, can we target it? In other words, would Survey-Badlands be a legal action we could take?
Asked before. Low probability of finding anything unless we have a settlement in the area to base a survey off. It's like with every other project type. No base nearby means you get shit all done for the same expense.
New method of digging. Create a pick using your current stone pick out of the stone you're digging. Use to replace after your current pick breaks. It's genius!
I think that's probably what's being done already. It just takes so much work to shape the rock to break other rocks.

We probably need to take two turns to lick our wound. Unless the DP start attacking, I wouldn't waste time starting a badland settlements.
Well, the DPs are probably going to be licking their wounds for a bit, though they MIGHT lick their wounds by intensifying raids on everyone else(because while they're likely to be hit hard, they have the Centralization to tank the damage better than their neighbors)

Depends a lot on our Stability situation.
If we somehow come out of this with positive stability and Econ 2+ I'd say
[Main] Expand Trails
[Secondary] Study Rocks
[Secondary] Study Rocks

Which nets us the northern fishers as a new province the turn after and hopefully breaks into metalworking at home

Or if Stability is at 0, Econ at 1+ and the DPs are in remission
[Main] Settlement - Eastern Hills
[Secondary] Build Walls - Eastern Hills
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers

Which nets us a lightly fortfied forward base while the DPs are too on fire to object, and our Trade Mission keeps the metal lore fresh.

Or if we had -1 Stability or worse, but Economy of 2+.
[Main] Proclaim Glory
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers

Which crash fixes our Stability by celebrating the defeat of the plague, at the cost of a chunk of Econ, and maintains the metal lore via trade.

At least, that's the three main thrusts I have in mind.

If Econ is at 1 and Stability is below 0, then we're going to have to BLEED, so something like
[Main] Expand Economy
[Secondary] Annual Festival
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers

Which loses us little, but gets little done, while we shovel our way out of the hole
 
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Asked before. Low probability of finding anything unless we have a settlement in the area to base a survey off.

I think that's probably what's being done already. It just takes so much work to shape the rock to break other rocks.


Well, the DPs are probably going to be licking their wounds for a bit, though they MIGHT lick their wounds by intensifying raids on everyone else(because while they're likely to be hit hard, they have the Centralization to tank the damage better than their neighbors)

Depends a lot on our Stability situation.
If we somehow come out of this with positive stability and Econ 2+ I'd say
[Main] Expand Trails
[Secondary] Study Rocks
[Secondary] Study Rocks

Which nets us the northern fishers as a new province the turn after and hopefully breaks into metalworking at home

Or if Stability is at 0, Econ at 1+ and the DPs are in remission
[Main] Settlement - Eastern Hills
[Secondary] Build Walls - Eastern Hills
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers

Which nets us a lightly fortfied forward base while the DPs are too on fire to object, and our Trade Mission keeps the metal lore fresh.

Or if we had -1 Stability or worse, but Economy of 2+.
[Main] Proclaim Glory
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers

Which crash fixes our Stability by celebrating the defeat of the plague, at the cost of a chunk of Econ, and maintains the metal lore via trade.

At least, that's the three main thrusts I have in mind
I think you did it again Veekie. It's the Badlands settlement that makes a forward base against the DP. :p
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Apr 16, 2017 at 2:42 AM, finished with 17268 posts and 79 votes.
 
I think you did it again Veekie. It's the Badlands settlement that makes a forward base against the DP. :p
Uh, both are geographically much more accessible to the DPs. Eastern Hills is directly to their north with limited geographical barriers, along the trade route to the Thunder Horse. The objective here is to secure a stable trade route that cannot be disrupted easily as we expand across the eastern hills, while flipping the DPs off and forestize the hills with more settlements for growth.

Badlands is to their northwest(but ironically closer to their nearest settlements despite being further away from their capital, as those hug the rivers). The objective here is to secure a forward base and get stuck in with the DPs directly. I think I've made my opinion on that pretty clear.
 
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