Paths of Civilization

tryrar · Apr 14, 2017

Ok, stability calcs of current winning options:

-1(existing)+1(sacrifice)+(King chance)-2-(ward chance)=good chance of -2, decent chance of -1, and small chance of -3 stability, in exchange for only one ??? and coming out of this with 5-6 econ.

So, based on this, here are some actions we can take depending on stability:

If stability is -1 next turn:
[Main]Study Rocks
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Expand Holy Site

only being at -1 stab is the best outcome for us, as we can fix that with a festival while studying rocks and expanding holy sites. Since our provinces can do +2 econ actions a turn, this is only net -1 econ.

If stability is -2 next turn:
[Main]Proclaim Glory/Return of Harmony
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Expand Holy Site

The only thing we lose for being at -2 stab is the ability to do anything other than main a stability action, which does suck. My preference is to do proclaim glory for the guaranteed +1 stab, but if we feel like gambling we can try to get more than 1 stab from RH and not worry about stability for a while.

If stability is -3 next turn:
[Main]Proclaim Glory
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Return of Harmony

Yeah, we're in a tricky position, as only two of our stability actions actually work as a secondary, so we need to proclaim glory as a main. This means we either roll at -1 stability and fix it next turn or gamble on a secondary RH.

tryrar · Apr 14, 2017

Motoko said:
[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability,???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
Holy fuck people! I can't believe people are going for the econ grab, attempting to kill our King when we need him and thinking that we should risk going into -3 stability territory! I don't need to be mean, but this is going to be a situation where most cultures are going to split... Get far worse or by some miracle, benefit. I truly think if we play this wrong with the refugees and the King, we'll split like the lowlands of old. We'll gain far more by simply surviving this and being an intact polity that has gone without our people going full apeshit than if we go with a risky plan.

you can calm down, the exact combo you're voting for is winning

Candesce · Apr 15, 2017

tryrar said:
If stability is -3 next turn:
[Main]Proclaim Glory
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Return of Harmony

If we're at -3, we don't get restore harmony. Period.

CatOnTheWeb · Apr 15, 2017

Motoko said:
Holy fuck people! I can't believe people are going for the econ grab, attempting to kill our King when we need himand thinking that we should risk going into -3 stability territory!

He's going to die soon anyway, and sending him to the spirits is going to make things more stable.

Motoko said:
I truly think if we play this wrong with the refugees and the King, we'll split like the lowlands of old.

Our people would be less likely to break apart if our King sacrificed himself, as that would be a direct insult to him and the effort he just went to on their behalf. It would be sad, but a unifying rally point for our people, a place for them to stand in these troubled times.

tryrar · Apr 15, 2017

Candesce said:
If we're at -3, we don't get restore harmony. Period.

ah, so then it's not different than the -2 stab turn, except we need to do another stab action next turn like a main RH.

notgreat · Apr 15, 2017

Well. I come back and suddenly everything's on fire and we're a dozen pages in. Luckily, our civ is basically built for this kind of stuff so we should be able to come out of this with a couple scratches while everyone else is dying horribly.

[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)

This is currently the winning vote, and it should be noted that it has a tiny chance of causing the insta-death. If the admin roll crit fails and the Ward roll fails, we lose 3 stability before either of the gains and hit -4. I don't like this, but I can't find a way to fix this without causing what I suspect will be even larger problems.

BungieONI · Apr 15, 2017

Stability math for top vote.

[] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[] [King]Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)

A

(existing -1) + 0 from Ward +1 from King + 1 from Sacrifice + 0 from Harmony - 2 Stability from Refugee = -1 Stability

or

B

(existing -1) -1 from Ward + 0 from King + 1 from Sacrifice + 0 from Harmony - 2 Stability from Refugee = -3 Stability

Hmm. Pretty good.
How is the toxicity level in thread?

Edit: Lots of possible variations in outcome. These are just the far ends of the spectrum.

DocMatoi · Apr 15, 2017

BungieONI said:
How is the toxicity level in thread?

Very high, unfortunately. I myself am to blame, at least in part

DkArthas · Apr 15, 2017

[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)

I have no interest in letting our civilization turn into sacrifice loving shits.

Umi-san · Apr 15, 2017

DocMatoi said:
Human Sacrifice is against the way of our patron spirits of earth. This is a long established fact in the narrative. It would be Out of Character for us as a civilization to start now, when we have an enemy who we hate for the exact reason that they conduct human sacrifice.

Idk if it's actually against the way of our patron spirits of earth/ancestors. Spirits of the earth aren't super eager to die, but their death perpetuates the cycle of nature and in some cases is beneficial to their offspring, and thus intentional. Our ancestors would and probably have sacrificed themselves for their descendants and comrades as well.

Entropy Engineer said:
Why are people voting for human sacrifice? I know it might help that doesn't change the fact it'll set a very very bad precedent and make playing our civ uncomfortable if not out right unplayable. If people don't mind playing a civ that thinks human sacrifice is ok then fine. It's just not for me. So I'm going to go and maybe come back in a couple of turns and see if this changes.

It's self-sacrifice rather than human sacrifice, which tbh I'm okay with. It's like jumping in front of a car to shove another person out of its way. But the bandwagon has shifted so... *shrug*

Ghostdevil said:
Were at max legitimacy so yes, it is nothing to sneeze at, its completely useless, Its not worthy of a sneeze

If 3 L helps, 4 L will be proportionally more.

Sivantic said:
true name

Ho, demon! Tell me thy TRUE NAME so that I might command thee to depart!!

tryrar said:
I mean @Powerofmind 's new vote. Change refugees to some groups and I'd vote for it in a heartbeat

Yayyy someone else wants to boost our pop. <3 <3

NotAlwaysFanfic said:
I'll note that the leading votes also have a near minimum of ???, which I feel is sad because it's fun to go out and explore the unknown (when you're able to take a step back and say 'this is a story game, I should relax and not take this so seriously'). Seriously, vote for some mystery options people, let's have some fun!

I agree... but I'm simultaneously playing this like a story to be enjoyed, a game to be munchkinned, and a life emulator to be prudenced.

tryrar said:
Ok, stability calcs of current winning options:

-1(existing)+1(sacrifice)+(King chance)-2-(ward chance)=good chance of -2, decent chance of -1, and small chance of -3 stability, in exchange for only one ??? and coming out of this with 5-6 econ.

So, based on this, here are some actions we can take depending on stability:

If stability is -1 next turn:
[Main]Study Rocks
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Expand Holy Site

only being at -1 stab is the best outcome for us, as we can fix that with a festival while studying rocks and expanding holy sites. Since our provinces can do +2 econ actions a turn, this is only net -1 econ.

If stability is -2 next turn:
[Main]Proclaim Glory/Return of Harmony
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Expand Holy Site

The only thing we lose for being at -2 stab is the ability to do anything other than main a stability action, which does suck. My preference is to do proclaim glory for the guaranteed +1 stab, but if we feel like gambling we can try to get more than 1 stab from RH and not worry about stability for a while.

If stability is -3 next turn:
[Main]Proclaim Glory
[Secondary]Establish Festival
[Secondary]Return of Harmony

Yeah, we're in a tricky position, as only two of our stability actions actually work as a secondary, so we need to proclaim glory as a main. This means we either roll at -1 stability and fix it next turn or gamble on a secondary RH.

Tbh, I'd rather do Main Trails instead of Main Rocks if our stab is in a good place. We already did martial and I just want to start that secondary province action.
[] [Main] New Trails
[] [Secondary] Establish Festival
[] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Workers
Festival for stab; Metal Worker diplomacy to get in on the monarchy early and learn some more metalbending.

If stab is -2, def [Main] Proclaim Glory, Festival, Trade Mission. If stab is -3, the same, but also cry while typing the vote.

Joining-the-Bandwagon:
[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)

Spectrum · Apr 15, 2017

ctulhuslp said:
I can't not be salty because everybody who fucking bothered to read the description of LoO and to think of previous crises (me included) should know that Stability 0 might be 'neutral' for the other civs, but not for us.
EDIT: And, like, we knew that high Stability is 'optimistic people' - resilience to Stability hits. Another reason to be annoyed for chasing everything instead of it.

Powerofmind said:
You voted for no stability-increasing actions last turn. You are literally not allowed to complain. As for your edit, that is in no way stated fact, that is merely an assumption.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one allowed to be salty here, doubly so since I was also attempting to get people to raise Mysticism and we had this fun tidbit:

Academia Nut said:
Utter terror gripped the People, and while there were many shamans these days, there were fewer who studied the celestial spirits than ever and they had no answers as to what to do to appease this monster in the sky.

BungieONI · Apr 15, 2017

DocMatoi said:
Very high, unfortunately. I myself am to blame, at least in part

Lovely.

I appreciate the honesty and what little irked-ness I had with you is forgiven.

It's depressing. I don't seem to be feeling the salty or outright puerile fury like some of the people who voted. I'm just depressed because people are knee-jerk enough to not try to think in a holistic fashion. I realize it now after an hour but I was doing the same so I can't throw anymore stones than just bringing it up.

We were only thinking in pieces. About Stability. Or the morality of sacrificing/not sacrificing our King. The traits we could get out of sacrificing him or not. The possible Econ boosts. The narrative we wanted to tell didn't really get brought up except once or twice.

So to re-state a query/curiosity/request for clarity or confirmation which I hope might make some people contemplate.

So I'm wondering. The thread seems to want our people to develop a morality along these lines:

We are humble, generous and compassionate people. We believe in the best in people. We open our arms to anyone. However, we have an absolute line in the sand, and if anyone abuses our kindness to harm those we care for and protect. We will destroy them utterly and tear down all they have worked for.

pbluekan · Apr 15, 2017

Sivantic said:
[X][Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [King]Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)
[X] [Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)

On to the new bandwagon!

@veekie @Powerofmind
I'm reasonably sure we've done a loop here. Power's original vote was more or less identical to this.

[X] [Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)

Just curious @Powerofmind how are you getting those probabilities? I only roughly approximated the chances of each result when I did some of the stability math.

Umi-san · Apr 15, 2017

BungieONI said:
We are humble, generous and compassionate people. We believe in the best in people. We open our arms to anyone. However, we have an absolute line in the sand, and if anyone abuses our kindness to harm those we care for and protect. We will destroy them utterly and tear down all they have worked for.

I'll be honest, I want our people to be like the Dutch.

I want to have us be humble, prudent, and compassionate. I want us to give and receive in return. I want us to welcome people in but make sure they're trustworthy and can align with our values. I want us to get revenge when abuse occurs, but to the level of crippling and subsequent reformation, not annihilation.

pbluekan · Apr 15, 2017

BungieONI said:
So to re-state a query/curiosity/request for clarity or confirmation which I hope might make some people contemplate.

So I'm wondering. The thread seems to want our people to develop a morality along these lines:

We are humble, generous and compassionate people. We believe in the best in people. We open our arms to anyone. However, we have an absolute line in the sand, and if anyone abuses our kindness to harm those we care for and protect. We will destroy them utterly and tear down all they have worked for.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I've gathered as well. An addition to that profile might be that we are trying to craft a fairly independent society. Allies, sure all well and good, but they've mostly been cultivated with an eye for tech or for future annexation. However, I don't ever get the feeling that we have ever, nor will ever approach other people's as equals; not for a very long time, at the least. Our approach is: "Come, sit, the fire is warm. Allow us to show you a better way." Not that our way is better, just that is generally our approach.

To that end, we also seem to avoid any dealings that might put us in any form of debt or submission to the other civs in game. We've been given the option numerous times to offer tribute or submit in some way. The closest we ever came was engraving that star axe for the thunderhorse, and that was done in the hopes of spreading our spiritual mastery around the local areas. (If I remember the discussion at the time well enough.)

Essentially, we're pretty tolerant of others, but we are always nudging them to our way of thinking.

BungieONI · Apr 15, 2017

Umi-san said:
I'll be honest, I want our people to be like the Dutch.

I want to have us be humble, prudent, and compassionate. I want us to give and receive in return. I want us to welcome people in but make sure they're trustworthy and can align with our values. I want us to get revenge when abuse occurs, but to the level of crippling and subsequent reformation, not annihilation.

Hmm I'm cool with that. Yours is just a bit less on the ruthless. But interestingly also less on the trustful in certain ways. Also non-confrontational, by scoping people out you avoid the bad ones and don't have to fight.

In either of these variants I'm imagining that these people are intelligent and actually think about folks if they accept them in. It's common sense to watch your guests, if only to figure out their desires and needs.
This favors both of ours. Lessening the penalties of mine and making your examination of their trustfulness a bit more effective. The gap between them is closed but not by too much I'd admit.

The extreme revenge reaction of mine is because it's really their only line.

pbluekan said:
Yeah, this is pretty much what I've gathered as well. An addition to that profile might be that we are trying to craft a fairly independent society. Allies, sure all well and good, but they've mostly been cultivated with an eye for tech or for future annexation. However, I don't ever get the feeling that we have ever, nor will ever approach other people's as equals; not for a very long time, at the least. Our approach is: "Come, sit, the fire is warm. Allow us to show you a better way." Not that our way is better, just that is generally our approach.

To that end, we also seem to avoid any dealings that might put us in any form of debt or submission to the other civs in game. We've been given the option numerous times to offer tribute or submit in some way. The closest we ever came was engraving that star axe for the thunderhorse, and that was done in the hopes of spreading our spiritual mastery around the local areas. (If I remember the discussion at the time well enough.)

Essentially, we're pretty tolerant of others, but we are always nudging them to our way of thinking.

Huh. That last line sounds a lot like the Culture.

BungieONI · Apr 15, 2017

pbluekan said:
Yeah, this is pretty much what I've gathered as well. An addition to that profile might be that we are trying to craft a fairly independent society. Allies, sure all well and good, but they've mostly been cultivated with an eye for tech or for future annexation. However, I don't ever get the feeling that we have ever, nor will ever approach other people's as equals; not for a very long time, at the least. Our approach is: "Come, sit, the fire is warm. Allow us to show you a better way." Not that our way is better, just that is generally our approach.

To that end, we also seem to avoid any dealings that might put us in any form of debt or submission to the other civs in game. We've been given the option numerous times to offer tribute or submit in some way. The closest we ever came was engraving that star axe for the thunderhorse, and that was done in the hopes of spreading our spiritual mastery around the local areas. (If I remember the discussion at the time well enough.)

Essentially, we're pretty tolerant of others, but we are always nudging them to our way of thinking.

The only question is does our current plan follow this Ideal and/or the Ideal @Umi-san raised?

I think it does in a limited fashion.
I'll elaborate on my Ideal in a while. I've had this core for several days, and it was not even relevant to this thread, so there are a lot of behavioral assumptions that I need to give some thought on how to clarify.

Killer_Whale · Apr 15, 2017

[X] [Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Only let in some(Significant chance of stability loss)

bluefur87 · Apr 15, 2017

Darn, guess the vote is going until tomorrow at least. Well, let's see where we're at here.

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 667 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6
Task: Harmony
[29][Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[20][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: King
[34][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[16][King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[3][King] Talk with the Thunder Horse (Applies Heroic diplomacy to interactions over the crisis)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Refugee
[23][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[12][Refugee] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)
[8][Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
[5][Refugee] The People must offer aid (-4 Stability, +8-11 Econ, probable overcrowding issues, ???)
[1][Refugee] All who need aid must receive it (-5 Stability, +11-15 Econ, overcrowding issues, ???)
[1][Refugee] Only let in some (Significant chance of stability loss)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Sacrifice
[30][Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[16][Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[6][Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)

——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Ward
[32][Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[12][Ward] ] Even less friendly groups should know of the magic (Shares with many groups, chance of stability gain, ???)
[5][Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[4][Ward] Everyone, even the Dead Priests! (Shares far and wide for -1 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, ???)
Total No. of Voters: 54

Alright, those are the votes, now to do some math.

Initial Stability: -1
Harmony: 0
King: Potential 1
Refugee: -2
Sacrifice: +1
Ward: Potential -1

No immediate stability bonuses, so I can calculate worst and best case scenarios without entering them and...

Worst Case Scenario: Temporary -4
...
Which of course kills us thanks to our harmony trait.
...
I'm not even going to bother doing further calculations. I'll just leave this here and hope people sort out this nonsense by tomorrow morning.

tryrar · Apr 15, 2017

Killer_Whale said:
[X] [Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)
[X] [Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[X] [Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[X] [King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X] [Refugee] Only let in some(Significant chance of stability loss)

so you give up our biggest advantage to have a high chance to drop to -2 stability. This vote is kinda the worst of all worlds you know.

tryrar · Apr 15, 2017

bluefur87 said:
Darn, guess the vote is going until tomorrow at least. Well, let's see where we're at here.

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 667 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6
Task: Harmony
[29][Harmony] No, they could cause further panic
[20][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)

Task: King
[34][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[16][King] Speak with spirits (Twythulmyn dies, +1 immediate stability, +1 Legitimacy, ???)
[3][King] Talk with the Thunder Horse (Applies Heroic diplomacy to interactions over the crisis)

Task: Refugee
[23][Refugee] Some from friendly groups can come in (-2 Stability, +4-5 Econ)
[12][Refugee] Those with preexisting ties can come in (-1 Stability, +2 Econ, small chance of further stability loss)
[8][Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
[5][Refugee] The People must offer aid (-4 Stability, +8-11 Econ, probable overcrowding issues, ???)
[1][Refugee] All who need aid must receive it (-5 Stability, +11-15 Econ, overcrowding issues, ???)
[1][Refugee] Only let in some (Significant chance of stability loss)

Task: Sacrifice
[30][Sacrifice] Large (-3 Econ, +1 Stability, ???)
[16][Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
[6][Sacrifice] Medium (-2 Econ, ???)

Task: Ward
[32][Ward] No, it is sacred magic (Small chance of stability loss)
[12][Ward] ] Even less friendly groups should know of the magic (Shares with many groups, chance of stability gain, ???)
[5][Ward] It should be shared with friendly tribes (Shares with a few groups)
[4][Ward] Everyone, even the Dead Priests! (Shares far and wide for -1 Diplomacy, +1 Stability, ???)
Total No. of Voters: 54

Alright, those are the votes, now to do some math.

Initial Stability: -1
Harmony: 0
King: Potential 1
Refugee: -2
Sacrifice: +1
Ward: Potential -1

No immediate stability bonuses, so I can calculate worst and best case scenarios without entering them and...

Worst Case Scenario: Temporary -4
...
Which of course kills us thanks to our harmony trait.
...
I'm not even going to bother doing further calculations. I'll just leave this here and hope people sort out this nonsense by tomorrow morning.

The only thing thqat the current vote can do to improve anything that doesn't sac the king or start spreading warding is to sac all econ this turn. If you can come up with a vote that a)gets us the same or more econ as we started B)doesn't drop us more than one stability, or actually gains stability, then I'd say you have a point.

bluefur87 · Apr 15, 2017

tryrar said:
The only thing thqat the current vote can do to improve anything that doesn't sac the king or start spreading warding is to sac all econ this turn. If you can come up with a vote that a)gets us the same or more econ as we started B)doesn't drop us more than one stability, or actually gains stability, then I'd say you have a point.

I am voting for that. I have stated the dangers.

If people want to play chicken with our civilization shattering then I don't see how you expect me to stop them beyond pointing out they're giving a vote for shattering the civilization. If you want to get people to move towards sacrifice everything, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm already there.

Literally, all people have to do to make that work is switch the current leading vote to sacrificing everything. We'll end up at 4-5 econ next turn, depending on how well the dice roll, and not risk the shattering of our entire civilization.

Umi-san · Apr 15, 2017

BungieONI said:
The only question is does our current plan follow this Ideal and/or the Ideal @Umi-san raised?

What do you define our current plan as? I define it as increasing our martial and technology level with a goal of an eventual expanse into the lowlands in order to end the DP.

I feel, to some degree, that this plan doesn't follow my ideals as described, but does follow yours in the sense that we will be working to annihilate a polity that opposes our morals. I say this because the DP already seem like they're becoming a softer nation, and in that sense are gradually reforming.

I want to reduce their power and increase ours, which involves war to strip land from them, but I don't want them completely dead. They can be made to be better.

Korporati · Apr 15, 2017

[X][Harmony] Yes, the people need to be further calmed (-1 to +2 Stability)
[X][King] Remain home (Chance of stability gain)
[X][Refugee] Many may enter (-3 Stability, +6-8 Econ, ???)
[X][Ward] No, it is sacred magic
[X][Sacrifice] Everything! (-4 Econ, +1 immediate stability, chance of extra stability, ???)
Edit :

tryrar said:
The only thing thqat the current vote can do to improve anything that doesn't sac the king or start spreading warding is to sac all econ this turn. If you can come up with a vote that a)gets us the same or more econ as we started B)doesn't drop us more than one stability, or actually gains stability, then I'd say you have a point.

Chill bro, its just a game and everyone has their own opinion.
Btw no need to double post

pbluekan · Apr 15, 2017

BungieONI said:
I think it does in a limited fashion.
I'll elaborate on my Ideal in a while. I've had this core for several days, and it was not even relevant to this thread, so there are a lot of behavioral assumptions that I need to give some thought on how to clarify.

There isn't a perfect option in this vote, and like I said earlier, sometimes we have to compromise. I think, in this vote, that compromise is not sharing the warding secrets. Yes, we are happy to open our arms, it's why people continue to flock to us, but there's a limit. The DP are enough of an issue for us to have hit hat limit.

Paths of Civilization

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Theoretical Lover of Girls

CAPITAL IS TO BLAME

Procrastinating.

Tell me a secret~

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Somethin's Fucky ...

Procrastinating.

Somethin's Fucky ...

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Procrastinating.

Somethin's Fucky ...