Paths of Civilization

highs2lows · Apr 8, 2017

@Umi-san
The DP will attack us because the capitalist slaver economy demands bodies. skulls for the skull throne and all that. With a pop comparable to ours and mostly slaves in the field it would have happened even without the violence glorifying slaver culture practicing ritual sacrifice.

tryrar · Apr 8, 2017

bluefur87 said:
So, what do we need?

Centralization- Currently at 3, putting it up to at least 4 would give us the ability to work much better.
Stability-Currently at 0, LoO procs all the time, buffing stability will help greatly in getting us huge econ drops.
Econ- Currently at 2, likely to drop rather heavily. Needs buffing, a comfortable area would be to keep it around 3, ideally 7+ for extra actions.
Mysticism- Is going to drop to 0, desperately needs to be raise
Martial- while the number is 4, our tech and raw troop numbers is crap. We need to specifically main this. All this said, my vote will be.

[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival

Our stability is what allows us to take large strides in econ, and LoO procs frequently. It is unknown if finishing our megaproject will give us more stability, but if it does we will get 2 stability to use towards LoO rather than 1. I also want to make sure we can afford to main expand warriors, but keeping the nomads off of us is much preferred, and I'd prefer to have our heroic diplomat back that.

So next turn could look something like
Main- Expand Warriors
Secondary- Expand Economy
Secondary- New trails

All those trying to enforce authority, please do keep in mind that has a chance of dropping our stability. We do not want to go into -1 stability at this point.

I might switch if you change that to Highland Kingdom trade mission-if we trade with them we might boost their impressiveness and protect mass defections to the Dead Priests, since a major power trading with someone boosts legitimacy.

tryrar · Apr 8, 2017

highs2lows said:
@Umi-san
The DP will attack us because the capitalist slaver economy demands bodies. skulls for the skull throne abd all that. With a pop comparable to ours and mostly slaves in the field it would have happened even without the violence glorifying slaver culture practicing ritual sacrifice.

They will hammer the Highland Kingdom first, since they're closer.

hylas240 · Apr 8, 2017

bluefur87 said:
So, what do we need?

Centralization- Currently at 3, putting it up to at least 4 would give us the ability to work much better.
Stability-Currently at 0, LoO procs all the time, buffing stability will help greatly in getting us huge econ drops.
Econ- Currently at 2, likely to drop rather heavily. Needs buffing, a comfortable area would be to keep it around 3, ideally 7+ for extra actions.
Mysticism- Is going to drop to 0, desperately needs to be raise
Martial- while the number is 4, our tech and raw troop numbers is crap. We need to specifically main this. All this said, my vote will be.

[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Establish Annual Festival

Our stability is what allows us to take large strides in econ, and LoO procs frequently. It is unknown if finishing our megaproject will give us more stability, but if it does we will get 2 stability to use towards LoO rather than 1. I also want to make sure we can afford to main expand warriors, but keeping the nomads off of us is much preferred, and I'd prefer to have our heroic diplomat back that.

So next turn could look something like
Main- Expand Warriors
Secondary- Expand Economy
Secondary- New trails

All those trying to enforce authority, please do keep in mind that has a chance of dropping our stability. We do not want to go into -1 stability at this point.

I'd be willing to switch out enforce authority for a festival, as long as we enforce authority next turn.

New trails will burn our already quite low econ in exchange for only 1 centralization. If we're at +1 stability, we'll be able to take any possible stability hit from EA in exchange for a bigger centralization boost.

bluefur87 · Apr 8, 2017

tryrar said:
I might switch if you change that to Highland Kingdom trade mission-if we trade with them we might boost their impressiveness and protect mass defections to the Dead Priests, since a major power trading with someone boosts legitimacy.

I mean, I'll consider it once I've seen the arguments die down. I've put mine out there for now.

hylas240 said:
I'd be willing to switch out enforce authority for a festival, as long as we enforce authority next turn.

New trails will burn our already quite low econ in exchange for only 1 centralization. If we're at +1 stability, we'll be able to take any possible stability hit from EA in exchange for a bigger centralization boost.

That depends on our stability for me, honestly. I'd rather take the stability hit for more econ and spend some of that on trails than to ignore it.

Umi-san · Apr 8, 2017

highs2lows said:
They will attack us because we present a soft target for their well oiled military and bodies for thier slave econony. We knew they were ready two turns ago and threw them some nomads as a snack to buy time.

Who will? The DP who are currently involved in eating up the WC? The nomads who raided us and lost twice?
Which of these is an actual threat NOW?

Note that a trade mission to HK returns the diplo cost and is likely to strengthen their ability to fight the DP.
Note that New Trails increases our centralization, which is low, and probably makes it so that we're able to move stuff around inside us faster.

Together, these work to delay a DP attack where the EW doesn't, cost 1 Econ less, and increase our King's ability to have an effect.

hylas240 · Apr 9, 2017

bluefur87 said:
I mean, I'll consider it once I've seen the arguments die down. I've put mine out there for now.

That depends on our stability for me, honestly. I'd rather take the stability hit for more econ and spend some of that on trails than to ignore it.

We can easily afford to sit at -1 stability for 1 turn either way.

Andres · Apr 9, 2017

@Academia Nut, we will lose 1 Mysticism this turn to complete the megaproject?

Sivantic · Apr 9, 2017

Umi-san said:
^ Agreed.
And again, our leader has shitty martial but good admin and great diplo. Do roads so he can reach people more easily and then do RH next turn, and THEN w/ a different leader do EA or Declare Glory.

It's less dependent on military and more to do with walls. Anyway he is mediocre in Military, which is okay apparently. Don't need to worry as much

veekie said:
No Main benefit for War Carts(probably just the improved roll).
But not really that hot for our martial situation

Main doubles everything.

veekie said:
We learn what stat is used for Restoration of Harmony. Administration...so this is probably what we take to get rid of corruption. Still need the initial +1 stability to burn to it first.

Actually it's Centralization remember?

Academia Nut said:
The fact that the continued efforts against the Dead Priests required the expansion of managed trails for moving men and goods to the south also meant that trade flowed just a little bit faster, and it wasn't quite as easy to colluded with/blame the traders for discrepancies in the ration balances.

New Trails raised Centralization and showed us the corruption.

Also latest vote tally
Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 589 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1
[1] Plan Git Gud

Task: Secondary
[6][Secondary] Trade Mission - Highland Kingdom
[5][Secondary] Expand Trails
[4][Secondary] Expand Holy Sites
[3][Secondary] New Trails
[3][Secondary] Enforce Authority
[2][Secondary] Expand Warriors
[2][Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[2][Secondary] New Settlement - Blue stone quarry
[1][Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[1][Secondary] Trade Mission - Metal Miners
[1][Secondary] Art Patronage
[1][Secondary] Expand Economy
Total No. of Voters: 17

Early days yet with only 17 voters. However with this I am off to play games!

highs2lows · Apr 9, 2017

tryrar said:
They will hammer the Highland Kingdom first, since they're closer.

Feel free to roll the dice I just think we need more than one turn of martial to catch up.
Edit: Dedicated Martial even with the same tech level from a lucky roll they have codified tactics from generations of warfare @tryrar

Academia Nut · Apr 9, 2017

BungieONI said:
Hey @Academia Nut has the Story of Crow or Gwygoytha been written down? What do we even write on for that matter? Clay tablets? I'm forgetting where, or if this was ever specified.

Nope, and good records of the oral traditions are probably centuries away. Writing is done on smoothed sand, leaves or bark, pottery sherds, parchment, and clay tablets, depending on intended durability.

Abby Normal said:
Do we know how many actions our sub-chiefs will do any given turn?

More than one. They will do things like expanding settlements and surveys and the like for the moment.

Andres110 said:
we will lose 1 Mysticism this turn to complete the megaproject?

Correct.

veekie · Apr 9, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

The Highlands Kingdom is lacking in appeal because it's diplomacy score is shit. Send them a trade mission with fancy red and purple shirts. And this is the best time to make diplomatic contact with the Thunder Horse while they are sworn not to attack our traders and we have a Heroic Diplomat.

Expand Warriors, from my reading, REALLY should be Mained if we want to change the way we fight rather than just replenish the lost warriors.

Objective here?

If Diplo or Econ above 6 and there is no megaproject active local chiefs are able to select actions that may consume these resources

Diplomacy 6 (+1)

Two Secondary Trade Missions means they potentially have 8 Diplomacy to spend next turn, once the Megaproject completes. Meaning that all our Chiefs will be able to run their own Trade Missions to keep Diplomacy high for us

This does mean next turn should be:
-[Main] Expand Warriors
-[Secondary] Expand Economy

And one other thing though.
Centralization is low, but not critical. We'd have better odds of improving it efficiently with an Administrator king who can take Main Restore Harmony and Enforce Authority together to root out corruption.

Massgamer · Apr 9, 2017

At some point we need to raise our Mysticism considering how far it fell. Doing another megaproject would help but what about also studying forests in general?

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

Ok, bottom line the action we should always take this turn:

Trade Mission-Highland Kingdom

The update hints that if we do this we might aid the HK's ability to obtain control over the minor polities that split off the WC, since trading would boost their legetimacy.

Actions we can take:

Just about any other really. There's no wrong action this turn

Umi-san · Apr 9, 2017

hylas240 said:
I'd be willing to switch out enforce authority for a festival, as long as we enforce authority next turn.

New trails will burn our already quite low econ in exchange for only 1 centralization. If we're at +1 stability, we'll be able to take any possible stability hit from EA in exchange for a bigger centralization boost.

EA is a dumb choice atm because it decreases stability by 0.5 for, generously, 1.5 centralization. Generously because, again, our hero has mediocre martial and the entire thing is based on using that.

AF is a better choice if ur prepared to lose stability but is still a waste of econ for only +1 stab. If you're worried about centralization *now* do new trails and hope the additional effects are worthwhile. If you're worried about centralization in a non-urgent way vote for something else, do RH as a main next turn, and then do EA w/ a different hero after.

Abby Normal · Apr 9, 2017

Academia Nut said:
More than one. They will do things like expanding settlements and surveys and the like for the moment.

Oh yeah, duh, of course they have their own action list... would the actions they are likely to take increase our econ? ...and if/when they do take actions that increase econ will we even see that gain ourselves, or will any bonuses from their actions go to their own private scores instead of the overall civilization one?

hylas240 · Apr 9, 2017

@Academia Nut If we send a secondary trade mission to the Thunder Horses, what's the minimum peace extension we can get?

BungieONI · Apr 9, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Nope, and good records of the oral traditions are probably centuries away. Writing is done on smoothed sand, leaves or bark, pottery sherds, parchment, and clay tablets, depending on intended durability.

More than one. They will do things like expanding settlements and surveys and the like for the moment.

Correct.

Speaking of centuries how many have passed since we started? As an estimate.

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

I can get behind making this a trading turn, and focusing on econ and martial stuff next turn

Spectrum · Apr 9, 2017

As with most other stats, we really probably don't want to see what happens when we drop to 0 Mysticism given our reliance on the Priest caste for legitimacy and studying. Don't lose sight of that guys, we NEED to do Expand Holy Sites.

highs2lows · Apr 9, 2017

[Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
If @veekie is willing to commit to double main expand warriors next turn I may be swayed.

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

I'm pretty sure since this was a Mystic megaproject, we're gonna gain 1-2 free mysticism, so it isn't critical we raise it. We do proably want to get it boosted in the next 3-4 turns though

VoidZero · Apr 9, 2017

tryrar said:
Actions we can take:
Just about any other really. There's no wrong action this turn

How about war mission to DP?

We can be Napoleon*.

On an entirely different note, i feel stronger martial would support dipo actions better; since big sticks makes carrots much more appealing.

*May cause unintended drawbacks

bluefur87 · Apr 9, 2017

veekie said:
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom

The Highlands Kingdom is lacking in appeal because it's diplomacy score is shit. Send them a trade mission with fancy red and purple shirts. And this is the best time to make diplomatic contact with the Thunder Horse while they are sworn not to attack our traders and we have a Heroic Diplomat.

Expand Warriors, from my reading, REALLY should be Mained if we want to change the way we fight rather than just replenish the lost warriors.

Objective here?

Diplomacy 6 (+1)

Two Secondary Trade Missions means they potentially have 8 Diplomacy to spend next turn, once the Megaproject completes. Meaning that all our Chiefs will be able to run their own Trade Missions to keep Diplomacy high for us

This does mean next turn should be:
-[Main] Expand Warriors
-[Secondary] Expand Economy

And one other thing though.
Centralization is low, but not critical. We'd have better odds of improving it efficiently with an Administrator king who can take Main Restore Harmony and Enforce Authority together to root out corruption.

You know, I agree with this, but I want to ask something. @Academia Nut does dropping bellow 6 because we are starting diplo missions this turn stop our guys from doing their own trade missions?

tryrar · Apr 9, 2017

highs2lows said:
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Thunder Horses
[X] [Secondary] Trade Mission - Highlands Kingdom
If @veekie is willing to commit to double main expand warriors next turn I may be convinced.

We don't need to double main it, and we likely could not afford to do so anyways since that'll likely cost 4 econ

Paths of Civilization

Procrastinating.

Advance toward the Future

Procrastinating.

High Clerk of the Ymaryn

Seven gremlins in a trench coat

Tell me a secret~

Passing Flan 布丁魔王