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Paths of Civilization

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@Academia Nut

In very vague terms, how do you view our progress? Like surprised at the mega projects we managed, or disappointed at lack of rapid martial expansion?
 
No7sHere said:
@Umi-san it seems like that isn't the case after all, check academia nuts statement above.
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true, but if the southern coastal hills are unknown the way to know them might be establishing the settlement. We honestly should do that anyways so the WC can't enter that pocket there and trap us from forming a nice even expanse along the bottom of our territory. I hate inefficient borders.

Edit: @Powerofmind we already pave our roads... it's just that some also have steps in them.
 
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Powerofmind said:
That's basically the case. The lowlands are a hugely rich area for farming, but in order to possess all of them, we would need to have a military rating that could compete with every other contender. We could get around that by developing paved roads and full chariots, which would greatly increase our ability to project that Martial value, but catch 22, we'd need to control the lowlands for the first to be done, and the second still suffers from the issue of needing the manpower to use those chariots (which would be very hard to get, unless we already had the lowlands!).
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How about this:

We continuously wall each village until we get the upgrade that let us build walled settlements.

Once that, we might unlock the ability to build walls, and do so by surrounding the edge of the lowlands. This will required significant manpower, so we need to spam settlement at least every two turns to grow our population.

Once we surrounded the lowland, we can then start conquering in earnest.
 
Umi-san said:
yes. To all appearances.
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It looks like-
Academia Nut said:
I think I was confused about the initial question then. The forested hill are already under your control and expanding along them is the "New coastal" settlement actions, or absorbing the minor fishing villages and creeping up along the way. The southern coastal hills are currently entirely unknown territory.
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We simply do not have that option at the moment.

Maybe new trails can get us there? Or survey Land? Spamming coastal settlements look like it will take us north so that's not going to work.

We might just have to spam settlements until we get the option, or put down lots of trade missions towards the WC.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)

Considering the hero unit we've got here has already figured out a good portion of the thing, i'm gonna assume that the Warding project will only take 2 turns. It'll likely boost our stability as well once it's finished (and mysticism of course).

Even if we fail the flank attack, we still have other benefits from taking the action. While holing up is a viable direction, we'll still be stuck with a locked war-mission in order to deal with it (and considering our hero unit is a crappy warrior, this would adversely affect the success of keeping the nomads at bay...better to finish it now).

If we have the hero unit as our high chief, we'll definitely need to take sacred warriors. This'll keep our shaman's from accruing too much influence, and will almost definitely create something really, really good. I'm thinking either a medic unit (since it has synergy with the mega project) or just a much better version of cavalry (compared to if we made them without the hero unit).

Also, since our hero is a mysticism-type, we'll also have a bonus towards any study projects! So we should definitely try to get in a study forest action while we's still alive.
 
Note that we're electing the chieftain *candidate* which means the guy will be sticking with us for a while. So any actions we plan on taking in the future should be shaped by the knowledge that this guy has radically high mysticism, iffy admin and diplo, and poor martial.
 
Going by the map, northward expansion will be difficult and low-return. Our best avenues of expansion are towards the spirit talkers or confederacy for the difficult-but-defensible land, and the confederacy in particular because the hilly range to the west that could be hiding a new civ to interact with, not to mention being another especially defensible area.
Kiba said:
How about this:

We continuously wall each village until we get the upgrade that let us build walled settlements.

Once that, we might unlock the ability to build walls, and do so by surrounding the edge of the lowlands. This will required significant manpower, so we need to spam settlement at least every two turns to grow our population.

Once we surrounded the lowland, we can then start conquering in earnest.
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Considering the scale of the map (from roughly center of People territory, it takes several months' march to get to the Dead Priests), I would have to say such a megaproject would be on the scale of the Great Wall of China, and that if we could project that much economic power, that we would already have the lowlands by dint of might makes right.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Hole up in the hills where the People are at a maximum advantage.
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)

No time to review yet, but this megaproject is RIGHT up our alley.
Turtle up, double Main megaproject next turn with a defensive War Mission, and we got it
 
Powerofmind said:
Going by the map, northward expansion will be difficult and low-return. Our best avenues of expansion are towards the spirit talkers or confederacy for the difficult-but-defensible land, and the confederacy in particular because the hilly range to the west that could be hiding a new civ to interact with, not to mention being another especially defensible area.

Considering the scale of the map (from roughly center of People territory, it takes several months' march to get to the Dead Priests), I would have to say such a megaproject would be on the scale of the Great Wall of China, and that if we could project that much economic power, that we would already have the lowlands by dint of might makes right.
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Expanding in this manner makes sense. I favor the area by the WC first, so that the WC can't beat us to it and acquire fishing and trade ties before us. Acquiring that land also makes fostering stronger ties with the WC easier and safer.

Also, it wouldn't be a matter of *projecting* economic power because we'd just be expanding our own. I say this because I considering projecting to be pushing something beyond its normal limits. Since we'd have settlements there, it is projected within normal limits and thus not a projection.
 
veekie said:
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Hole up in the hills where the People are at a maximum advantage.
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)

No time to review yet, but this megaproject is RIGHT up our alley.
Turtle up, double Main megaproject next turn with a defensive War Mission, and we got it
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Our Warchief is the highchief candidate, and he has high martial, so his stats add to that of the Highchief.

@Academia Nut the Warchief is the martial candidate?
 
bluefur87 said:
what would it take for our people to be willing to settle along that southern coastline? Is that just going to be an option that will pop up next turn?
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Next turn there will be a north option and a south option along the coasts.

VoidZero said:
In very vague terms, how do you view our progress? Like surprised at the mega projects we managed, or disappointed at lack of rapid martial expansion?
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Ehhh... very focused I think it is. You may, however, start running into issues regarding focus in the near future.

Malevolo said:
the Warchief is the martial candidate?
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Generally that is where such candidates come from, yes, although sometimes it is a subordinate if the War Chief is older and mostly around as an advisor who wouldn't make a good heir.
 
I'm guessing right now our best bet is to build another fishing village or two in order to secure the southern hills and cut off anyone else's access to the sea. Then we can expand northward by absorbing the various fishing villages that dot the coast towards the metal shapers.

Hopefully our military action by sea will prove successful, because if it is then that will likely provide a bonus to any efforts to absorb said fishing communities. After all it would prove we can protect them, so long as they join us.

It will probably take a lot of "expand forest" actions to make sure all those coastal settlements are covered, so that needs to be taken into consideration though.
 
So, in light of the DP being way the fuck away, and the WC actually having the land amount to fight them, I have a proposition for a long term plan that I think most people can agree with the general idea of. We focus on diplomacy.

Getting copper tools will allow us to work harder and faster, though this is a mid-long term goal. Our first order of business along this path should be to establish trade with the metal workers.

The WC are our best bet in land to incorporate, but we will need to up our centralization and diplomacy to get to them. I propose building lots of new trails for this along with trade missions towards the WC. We also need to take the megaproject to explicitly create a vastly more attractive culture to incorporate them (as much as the diplo boost would be good).

So, I think we should do trade missions with the WC and new trails for the next few turns when possible.

Academia Nut said:
Next turn there will be a north option and a south option along the coasts.
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Yeeeeeees! We should definitely take this next turn. I also agree with the concept of study forests.
 
Umi-san said:
Also, it wouldn't be a matter of *projecting* economic power because we'd just be expanding our own. I say this because I considering projecting to be pushing something beyond its normal limits. Since we'd have settlements there, it is projected within normal limits and thus not a projection.
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In that particular case, it still falls under the catch 22. "We need to own the lowlands to be able to hold the lowlands from people who'd take it." The question, really, is how the hell do we take the lowlands in the first place. Basically, in order to commit enough resources to take them, we'd need as many resources as they provide in the first place.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)
[X] Hole up in the hills where the People are at a maximum advantage.
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
 
This time it is I who is late to the party -_-;

[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks ScourgeWarding megaproject)
[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)
[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)

Since we are going to have bad martial ability in the future, might as well hit them as hard as we can now.
Powerofmind said:
In that particular case, it still falls under the catch 22. "We need to own the lowlands to be able to hold the lowlands from people who'd take it." The question, really, is how the hell do we take the lowlands in the first place. Basically, in order to commit enough resources to take them, we'd need as many resources as they provide in the first place.
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More than anything it sounds like once you do have control of the Lowlands, you would be impossible to remove.
 
Powerofmind said:
In that particular case, it still falls under the catch 22. "We need to own the lowlands to be able to hold the lowlands from people who'd take it." The question, really, is how the hell do we take the lowlands in the first place. Basically, in order to commit enough resources to take them, we'd need as many resources as they provide in the first place.
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The lowlands would provide us with far more resources than they would other people, so that's not exactly true. The Dead Priests also aren't as deadly as we were worried about, we basically just need to back the WC and slowly diplo annex them by giving them better methods and encouraging them to follow our ways.

Our biggest problem was that we had no one that could contest the lowlands that would follow our culture, because the WC were weak, or so we thought. Being able to teach them the benefit of our ways should, at least, create a similar minded culture bloc that is fighting for the lowlands for us. Basically, we now have a viable ally to flip to our religion and use said religion to help unite any territory they would gain.

Another bottleneck here is going to be government. We will absolutely need to push writing before we can fully follow this plan through, but we can do this while gaining many things we want anyways. So we have a plan to take the lowlands without committing to a war or immediate forest creep, but it will take time.
 
Powerofmind said:
In that particular case, it still falls under the catch 22. "We need to own the lowlands to be able to hold the lowlands from people who'd take it." The question, really, is how the hell do we take the lowlands in the first place. Basically, in order to commit enough resources to take them, we'd need as many resources as they provide in the first place.
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I think you didn't read carefully enough. He wasn't proposing taking the lowlands, he was proposing surrounding the lowlands. I don't know what the next step was, though.
Having the lowlands surrounded would allow us to expand into them from a firmer base, and the progression as we expand on the lowlands would provide resources at a steady rate. We don't need as many resources as the lowlands as a whole provides, only more effective (i.e. leverage-able) resources than the DP possesses and the ability to reduce the amount of resources it can acquire as we expand.
 
[X] The ritual is incomplete, more study is required before it can be safely used on a widescale (Temporarily unlocks Scourge Warding megaproject)

[X] Build more boats and attempt a flank attack (Costs Econ to build new boats, which you will keep no matter the result)

[X] Bynwyn (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplomacy, Heroic Mysticism, accelerates Scourge Warding megaproject while alive, chance for bonus Stability)
 
Basically, imagine this. What would happen if the WC had our forestry techniques considering they control land up to the river?
 
BTW, @Academia Nut, could you please put a threadmark on the Civilization Sheet? It would make it easier to look up the current state of things.
 
@Academia Nut A few questions.

What do our advisers say on the econ cost of the Warding mega project? Will it cost mysticism instead of econ? Will it take 2 turns, or 3 (since we have a hero unit)?
 
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