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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Kaizuki said:
I don't care what you say we're not going at Mami with a weapon and intent to harm.
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Mami is not made of glass, she is not going to break just because we treat her as a serious combatant in a spar. Excluding Homura's loops she is the most experienced member of our group, she is perfectly capable of defending herself and we need to trust in her and her skills.

'Lement said:
The problem with throwing hammers is that they make lousy cover and don't force as great dodges as bigger things.
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The hammers aren't meant to be used as cover, they are meant to force Homura and Mami to do something other than shoot Sayaka while she closes, by either having to dodge or deflect them. They won't force a large dodge, but they don't need to, a lot of little dodges and/or deflections will add up.
 
Hm. If we have a free hand, why not. Adding mentions to first and last line:

[X] "Yes. Lets flank Homura from the right so that she obscures Mami, throw stuff for cover and distractions, and when not possible crater the ground."
[X] "Destroy everything and dive for cover. Kick up dust but keep on moving as Homura and Mami can sense where you are. Your sword should be capable of exploding but don't blow up Mami and Homura. "
[X] "Keep moving, keep using your flying abilities to minimize profile."
[X] "See if you can do your flying and lightshow separately? My magic would perhaps attract attention as well."
[X] When possible, throw up a car and fly with it to crash towards Homura, using your hammer to baseball it as she dodges. Otherwise, follow the advice given to Sayaka, throwing hammers if nothing else more useful is handy.
[x] If we can take Homura out, try the same pincer maneuver on Mami.
[x] When we inevitably get beaten long before ever getting that close, congratulate them on a good match, hug Mami, and ask for feedback on our tactics and performance.
 
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[x] "So do we get airsoft guns, too, or are we just attacking you guys with our magical weapons?"
-[x] "...you guys are going to just be using airsoft, right? *gulp*"
[x] "Okay, Sayaka, our only real advantages here are flight and speed. We're going to break in opposite directions to divide their attention."
[x] "Fly low, move fast, keep cover between you and them as much as possible. Fire near them to keep them off-balance."
[x] "We'll swing wide and try to hit Homura from both sides at once."
[x] Do that. If we have no airsoft, then throw warhammers at the ground with enough force to crater it and produce dust clouds to reduce their visibility.
[x] Use our wings as a shield as we make the final rush on Homura, throw a hammer at her feet as a decoy, and try to get close enough to glomp her if Sayaka's not already engaging her in melee.
[x] If we can take Homura out, try the same pincer maneuver on Mami.
[x] When we inevitably get beaten long before ever getting that close, congratulate them on a good match, hug Mami, and ask for feedback on our tactics and performance.
 
Do we know that Sayaka's swords do actually explode? I don't think it's ever happened in any of the spin-off materials.
 
Onmur said:
Actually should lay off the explosives.

Too dangerous.
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It's more about throwing stuff up, but I guess should clarify that to Sayaka.

changed to [ ] "Destroy everything and dive for cover. Kick up dust but keep on moving as Homura and Mami can sense where you are. Your sword should be capable of exploding but don't blow up Mami and Homura. "
E:
'Lement said:
Yes we do know. Iirc, it's in Urobutchi's concept notes (I recall @AuraTwilight linked it before, thought it may take me a bit to find it)

EDIT: Nevermind, it was Redshirt Army on guidebook (was confused by wraith arc images being last posted by AT, I think?). Still Sayaka Shirouing, though.
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Though yeah, I suppose can → should be capable of
 
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Updating to try and implement some of 'Lement's ideas.

[x] "So do we get airsoft guns, too, or are we just attacking you guys with our magical weapons?"
-[x] "...you guys are going to just be using airsoft, right? *gulp*"
[x] "Okay, Sayaka, our only real advantages here are flight and speed. We're going to break in opposite directions to divide their attention."
[x] "Fly low, move fast, keep cover between you and them as much as possible.We'll swing wide and try to hit Homura from both sides at once."
[x] "Fire near them to keep them off-balance. If your swords can do anything cool like explode, use that to create dust clouds and flashes to blind them. And if that lightshow you produce when you fly can move separately from you, use that as a decoy. If not, it's fine, just use speed, cover and suppressing fire."
[x] Do just that. If we have no airsoft, then throw warhammers at the ground with enough force to crater it and produce dust clouds to reduce their visibility.
[x] Grab something big to use as a shield as we make the final rush on Homura, throw a hammer at her feet as a decoy, and try to get close enough to glomp her if Sayaka's not already engaging her in melee.
[x] If we can take Homura out, try the same pincer maneuver on Mami.
[x] When we inevitably get beaten long before ever getting that close, congratulate them on a good match, hug Mami, and ask for feedback on our tactics and performance.
 
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*facepalm* Sorry, I misspelled your name. Fixed now.

EDIT: But hey, at least I remembered the apostrophe?
 
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Is fine. That misspelling has resulted in many amusing jokes in it's time, even if it is not the intent or roots of it :p
 
'Lement said:
[] When we inevitably get beaten long before ever getting that close, congratulate them on a good match, hug Mami, and ask for feedback on our tactics and performance.
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I am against this line. The point of the spar is to try to win and refine our skills and teamwork, not to throw the fight and get Mumihugs. We should not go into the fight expecting to lose quickly, not only will it keep us from fighting properly, it is also discourteous to Sayaka if we completely dismiss her skills and abilities as a teammate, and discourteous to Mami and Homura to dismiss their restraint. If we lose fine, but if we go in believing that our quick loss is assured then there is no point in even trying. Mami and Homura are skilled yes, but without magic Homura cannot use Time Stop, and she is unlikely to waste her more dangerous bombs in a spar so she is limited to her guns and her melee skills. Likewise Mami is also limited from using her higher tier magic. It will be a difficult fight but not an unwinnable one.
 
Mm....It's already (kinda? eh, close) flew through our heads, though.
Firnagzen said:
How did you put it to yourself earlier? Team Oh God They're Gonna Shoot Us versus Team Oh Yes We're Gonna Shoot You?
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I would like to win, of course, but I don't think congratulating Mami and Homura should they win insults Sayaka even if she ends up carrying the team with her melee instincts; after all we're applying that same thing to ourselves.
 
I was just trying to be humorous, but if it really bothers you that much....

[x] "So do we get airsoft guns, too, or are we just attacking you guys with our magical weapons?"
-[x] "...you guys are going to just be using airsoft, right? *gulp*"
[x] "Okay, Sayaka, our only real advantages here are flight and speed. We're going to break in opposite directions to divide their attention."
[x] "Fly low, move fast, keep cover between you and them as much as possible.We'll swing wide and try to hit Homura from both sides at once."
[x] "Fire near them to keep them off-balance. If your swords can do anything cool like explode, use that to create dust clouds and flashes to blind them. And if that lightshow you produce when you fly can move separately from you, use that as a decoy. If not, it's fine, just use speed, cover and suppressing fire."
[x] Do just that. If we have no airsoft, then throw warhammers at the ground with enough force to crater it and produce dust clouds to reduce their visibility.
[x] Grab something big to use as a shield as we make the final rush on Homura, throw a hammer at her feet as a decoy, and try to get close enough to glomp her if Sayaka's not already engaging her in melee.
[x] If we can take Homura out, try the same pincer maneuver on Mami.
[x] In the highly probable event that we lose despite our best efforts, accept it with good cheer, tell Sayaka she did well, and give mad props to whoever took us out.
[x] Whoever wins, congratulate everyone on a good match, high five Sayaka, hug Mami and tell her how awesome she was, and ask for feedback on our tactics and performance.
[x] Suggest that we change up the teams and go again.
 
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Shouldn't we keep this one pretty short?

[X] Take cover with Sayaka behind something big and heavy that you can pick up and throw reasonably quickly.
-[X] Yell to ask about rules. How many hits for an out?
-[X] 'Fly fast, keep moving, remove their footing. If we can, we go two on one on either and try to make it harder for the other one to shoot. Friendly fire. If we can't gang up, split.'
[X] Nervously yell at Homura to remember the airsoft gun.
-[X] To Sayaka: 'Move!'
-[X] Chuck your cover at Mami/Homura as a distraction.
 
'Lement said:
Mm....It's already (kinda? eh, close) flew through our heads, though.
I would like to win, of course, but I don't think congratulating Mami and Homura should they win insults Sayaka even if she ends up carrying the team with her melee instincts; after all we're applying that same thing to ourselves.
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What flew through her head was that they would be getting shot, not that the fight was hopeless.

The insult isn't because we congratulate the winners, the insult comes from completely dismissing Sayaka's skills by believing that being on her team means that we would not only inevitably lose, but that we would lose quickly. That is not the sort of thinking we need Sabrina to get into.

Spars are used to learn, not just for the experienced people to slap around the newbies and show off their superiority. Mami and Homura are not so skilled that Sabrina and Sayaka have no chance, and even if they were they would not fight at that level while training.
 
AramilOniasha said:
The insult isn't because we congratulate the winners, the insult comes from completely dismissing Sayaka's skills by believing that being on her team means that we would not only inevitably lose, but that we would lose quickly. That is not the sort of thinking we need Sabrina to get into.
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I don't think Sayaka is our main reason to be afraid at this moment.
 
We don't think that we're going to get creamed because Sayaka's on the team. We think we're going to get creamed because we're going up against two of the best magical girls alive, in circumstances that heavily favor their skillsets and limit the use of our own. The odds are against us.

Anyway, I've already changed the vote to address your concerns.
 
Knowing that your Kouhai Sayaka will be relying on you during this horribly difficult spar...

... It fills you with DETERMINATION.
 
'Lement said:
We gave crippled Kyoko more respect than that :/
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There's a difference between respecting another skilled combatant and having your best and only friend, who you might be suicidal without, brandishing a weapon at you. I don't know where the line between those is for Mami and I don't care to try finding out.

Also, the expectation that you will be brandishing a weapon at your best and only friend, who you might be suicidal without. That's probably the worst part. Without grief defenses we are fucking helpless in a fight against somebody like Mami. You're asking her to aim a lethal weapon at us in the name of dodge training.

Do I need to keep spelling out for you what a monumentally idiotic idea that would be? I do? Alright.

We are a tiny little rock that is currently pinned to the front of our shirt. We've also got basically no experience fighting without using grief for defense and offense. You want to start a "friendly spar" with live ranged weapons, not even melee weapons which A) can be blocked and B) can be fairly easily kept the fuck away from whatever body part, no, ranged weapons where keeping hits away from any given part of the body requires huge effort by the shooter and the target, with our soul on our shirt.

And you're talking about respect.

I don't know what's worse, the disregard for our life or the disregard for the situation you're forcing on Mami by asking her to threaten our life by shooting live weapons at us.

Like, what even? I know this is pretty harshly laid out, but seriously, that's actually the worst... argument, idea, everything I've seen in... in... I don't even know how long.

I'm going to assume you really didn't think about what you were saying, because the alternative would be that you did think about it, which would just be... Ugh.
 
[X] First things first, let's get some cover.
-[X] Take cover with Sayaka behind something big and heavy that you can pick up and throw reasonably quickly.
--[X] As you do, telepathy Mami and ask about rules. How many hits for an out?
[X] Alright. We have to try and single them out 2v1 to have a chance. Homura's melee's worse then Mami's, we'll try and start with her.
-[x] Closing in is gonna be tricky. Fire near them to keep them off-balance, and move as quick as you can as you do. I'll try and kick up some dust with my wings and hammer - if you can distract or blind them on the way in, try it. I'll use my soul gem radar to try and guide us in.
[X] Form mini-wings, then crouch and tilt them into the ground so you can launch dirt everywhere with them.
-[X] Pull out your hammer. See if you can streamline it a bit. Speed's more important then power here.
-[X] Nervously yell to Homura not to forget the airsoft guns.
-[X] To Sayaka: 'Move!'
-[X] Chuck your cover at Mami/Homura as a distraction, spray dirt everywhere to obstruct visibility.

[x] Close in on Homura first. Use the wings to help you maneuver. Keep Sayaka updated on positions as you do. If/when you close on Homura, try and keep your wings as a shield between Mami and the fight - obstruct her firing line.
-[x] If it works, try going for Mami.
 
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Live weapons, while safer for us than for normal humans, still isn't actually safe, yes.


That said, I think that if we want to stand a chance in this fight, I think we need to use the terrain. We have junk. Let's use it. Make a shield and box them in with it.
 
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