You're correct. Tactical Movement represents the ability of the character to bodily haul ass, move around/through obstacles at speed, move in three dimensions using his ability to stick to surfaces, and doing all of the above to advantageously position himself during a fight, possibly under enemy fire. It's a "ninja battle parkour" type of deal.

You can expect an unmolested ninja to be pretty fast in a straight line over easy terrain, even if they don't have high Tactical Movement skill. It's the difficult terrain, enemy fire, and the need to constantly change directions/move in three dimensions that'll get them.

Yeah, that makes plan Rihaku a bit more problematic. Basically, if we can be stealthy all is well, if we can't we wouldn't even be capable of getting into close combat against a moderately trained Genin. Really risky with a build that is as heavily close combat dependent as plan Stealth Assassin.

We'll need every fight to be on our terms....
 
One note (way too late in the process to do anything about it, but something to think about): with So Close Yet So Far, we may be able to partner with Sasuke (assuming his clan died and he wants to restore it). I don't have enough knowledge of the Naruto universe and how bloodlines work to know if this is better served as a male or female, or if they'd be equally capable of such a bargain.

If we want to maximize our value to Konoha, we should be male because the bloodline proc chance is extremely low. While Kakashi won't know exactly how low, he'll know that it's "a low, but not minuscule chance for this character's offspring to be full-fledged Uchiha or effectively identical in Sharingan development."

This seems like the most well thought out plan thus far. My only issue with it is that we have 0 in Dispelling, which means that we just auto-die if we happen to meet any genjutsu users. I guess it's good we are sneaky.

Yeah, the reason we have 0 in Dispelling and Tactical Movement right now is because these skills can be bought in the field with the instant-buy system as long as we have good chances of succeeding on our first roll, and they can both be boosted by chakra (2 points for Dispelling level 1, up to 4 points for Tactical Movement) to increase our success probability. With this we save up to 3+ Xp from outside our initial Skill pool, expanding our relevant Skill Xp from 15 to 27+ (15 base + 3 free Tai, Stealth, Awa Xp + 3 Bank).

However, my strategy for all field missions is essentially "remain stealthed at all times." We're the Hidden Dragon that sweeps in and makes a mess of enemy plans while they waste their initial salvo on our teammates. Our ideal teammates are a medic-nin that can buff us, and a defense-focused nin that is flashy and attracts enemy fire. However, once we get some Xp and our first training session, our moderate vulnerability to long-range combat will be neutralized. Our preferred location in battle is either hidden, or close to enemy fighters, because paradoxically that is where we are safest - any enemy in dash range has their effects defended against with Taijutsu, and even enemies out of range must limit their AoE effects to avoid hitting their allies. We can use Taijutsu to defend against all non-AoE physical attacks, too, since it covers the most common ninja defense of dodging.
 
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I disagree with your assumption that we should choose a country without a Hidden Village. In fact, i agree with Rihaku that we should attempt to hide in a country with a powerful Hidden Village. This is because the main threat to us comes in fact from Mist Hunter Nin. They are in canon quite famous for their prowess, and unlike everyone else they have a reason to be searching for us. In Fire Country, they are going to have to move very carefully, if they don't want to tangle with Konoha, which is quite capable of handing them their asses if poked badly enough.

We on the other hand, do not have to ask around, search for clues and generally be conspicuous in order to keep on our preys trail. As ninja we are entirely capable of living off the land for a long time, with minimal contact with civilisation. This means that as long as we keep our heads down and don't attempt to steal missions on Fire territory there is a minimal chance of Konoha-nin picking up on us, and a even lesser chance of the Hunter Nin picking up our trail. And even a decent chance of Konoha finding the Hunter Nin and fighting them off for us.

In a country without its own ninja, they are entirely free to hunt us down using any means necessary.

Since the majority of the border guard will probably be Chunin teams with a few Jonin commanders, it is going to be easier to move across Fires borders later on than to fight of the Anbu-Jonin level Hunter task forces.
Fair points.
Taking this into account I seem to have under-valued short/medium-term risk from Hunter-nin compared to the medium/long-term risk of the stated goal of attempting to start a hidden village.

Though if we attempt to seriously take missions from clients to make a living(staying out in the woods the rest of our lives is not appealing in addition to this not being the stated premise), we are probably going to run into some of the same problems the Hunter-nin will in regards to staying hidden. But that is a risk that comes after keeping the hunter-nin at bay on the priority-list.

Although, honestly, I feel like the soul-stealing bloodline would be more useful than the Iron Nerve bloodline for a stealth-focused character. @Rihaku, would you mind considering using that as the bloodline for the Stealth Assassin build?
Even @eaglejarl s interpretation of the soulstealer bloodline is ludicrously powerful compared to literally anything else I've seen in this thread. I'm genuinely shocked it got approved.

(Although I'm equally shocked that no one seems to want the almost-sharingan.)

The soul-stealing bloodline is one that shows its power late-game.
Iron Nerve has early-game and mid-game survivability. In addition to some late-game potential with the possibility of Uchiha offspring.
So even though soul-steal can allow us to become much more powerful and save us a ton of xp over the run of the game, if we don't get there it's all for naught. The temptation for power is great though and it seems like a more straight-forward path.
The almost-sharingan pales a bit in comparison to Iron Nerve and Soul-steal in terms of versatility and integration with stated plan.
Almost-sharingan necessitates a ninjutsu-build for best effect, while soul-steal and Iron Nerve can work well with several builds.

Does anyone have a strong preference for our Elemental Affinity? In the fluff, earth and water tend to have the broadest utility, with offense, defense, and mobility options easily available, while fire and lightning are more linear/focused, lightning being more versatile than fire. I know earth is the most popular affinity, but I'm considering water favorably. It's good against fire, it enables Hidden Mist technique, it can be focused into a cutting edge or distilled to produce near-zero electrical conductivity... in a scientific setting, water is really strong. On the other hand, losing the potential of subterranean transit would be a problem.

[X] Plan stealth assassin
[X] Earth-affinity
 
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@MordBad even in the early game, skill levels are expensive. Soulstealer would give us a pretty big advantage over other genin from the moment we start killing.

I'm pretty dubious about plan stealth assassin, and I still think plan stealth mole would work better for survivability, but I'd be totally on board with a plan stealth assassin/soulstealer/earth-nature.
 
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Where is that stated? I know that we are a Genin and thus young, but i don't think we know our position in the timeline. For all we know we were in the Academy class that graduated before Zabuza.
Actually, that got covered somewhere earlier in the 14 pages and counting of the thread. You begin at the start of the canon timeline, with much but not all of the history up to that point the same as canon.
 
[X} Plan stealth assassin
[X] Earth-affinity

Why waste time on openly-offensive techniques when there are much easier alternatives. This a rational-quest, and a knife in the dark is worth a thousand swords at dawn.
 
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When voting, copy paste the vote instead of writing or you will make mistakes like these that make vote counting a pain
Good thought. Fix'd.


@MordBad even in the early game, skill levels are expensive. Getting from 0 to 4 costs 17 skill points. Soulstealer would give us a pretty big advantage over other genin from the moment we start killing.

I'm pretty dubious about plan stealth assassin, and I still think plan stealth mole would work better for survivability, but I'd be totally on board with a plan stealth assassin/soulstealer/earth-nature.

Ok, so how about this?
Soul Assassin Build

Dex 2 Str 2 Sta 2 [12 XP]
Capacity 4 Regen 4 [27 XP]
All Others 1

[3 XP banked]

Taijutsu 4 [7 XP]
Stealth 4 [7 XP]
Awareness 2
Weapon Arts 2
Resist Fast-Talk 1 [1 XP]
Transformation, Clone, and Substitution 1

Bloodline Limit: The Unending Hunger [30 XP]
(I encourage better names than this. Feel free to contribute)
When you kill a sentient being you can elect to consume their soul.
When you do so, if their best skill (randomly chosen if tied) was higher than your current level in that skill, you will earn a free skill-level in that skill.


[X] Soul Assassin Build
[X] Earth-affinity
 
When you do so, if their best skill (randomly chosen if tied) was higher than your current level in that skill, you will earn a free skill-level in that skill.

Might be better to rephrase that so that it's randomly chosen between any of their tied-for-highest skills that are higher than ours.

Otherwise we might have weapons 3 and taijutsu 4, and kill someone with 4 in both, and roll taijutsu and not get a point despite them beating us in weapons.
 
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The soul stealing power is insanely strong, yeah. My main concerns with the soulstealer build are 1) it will turn out much weaker in practice than it is on paper, as we waste time killing people whose best skill never lines up with our specialties 2) it's a pretty generic path to power that begins with "become an ice-cold psychopath" and ends with "engineer the optimal flow of critically wounded shinobi to your proximity so you can land the finishing blow, over and over." We might end up too us trying to exploit our power and never actually get on with experiencing the world of the quest. Also, anyone that actually hears of that power will try to have us killed immediately at any cost. It's like someone trying to build a basement nuke. You bomb them to stone age before they even have the chance to go supercritical.

Every veteran shinobi we serve under is going to wonder if we have it out for them, and probably be entirely justified. I'm afraid it will distort our play style into something uninteresting while simultaneously denying us immediate benefits. After all, it'll be pretty hard to find someone not only with Taijutsu 5+, but whose best skill is Taijutsu 5+, and then kill them (and survive the several-minutes-long soul extracting process while vulnerable, possibly in their guarded clan compound or on the open battlefield). Even harder for Stealth.
 
@Rihaku bear in mind that we only get 1 point regardless of how much higher their level is than ours. Our optimal move with soulsteal is to continually kill people who are only just stronger than us, which is what we should be doing anyway to be honest.

In addition, killing non-taijutsu users gives us points in other skills without needing to lose our taijutsu spec. Other skills mean versitality. Versitality means options. Options mean surviving when things get unpredictable.

Iron Nerve makes us overpowered at the start, but in the mid-late game it stops being such an advantage. Soulsteal gives an advantage that scales as we use it and maintains its power throughout the game.
 
There is a bit more variation in chūnin and jōnin, so the Kage level is going to be higher. I'm not going to reveal all the details, but I'll say this: you can expect a lot of variation inside each rank: an advanced chūnin will dominate the basic one even more than your 2 dice of difference suggest.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but messing around in AnyDice it seems every skill rank of difference changes the average by about +-50, and higher total skill levels only increase how far from the average we can expect to go (standard deviation). Going by what @eaglejarl said about the dice mechanics, that means a single rank of difference averages a critical success, and two or more ranks are double or more that.

We're already looking at decisive victories for a single rank, and if we're expecting chunin/jonin hunter-nin after us at any point... well, I guess my question is, can we expect to have a chance at existing after our homeland figures out we're not already dead? If they send even a single jonin with better Stealth and Awareness skills then than anyone on our team, how do we avoid Game Over?

After all, our highest jonin are disposable enough to be sent on a suicide mission en masse, and if the skills are that far apart at the top, it seems like they should have a least a single Jonin that can wipe the floor with our entire team.

Edit: Updated with right exponent, thanks @Rihaku
 
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I would just like to point out on the Stealth Assassin build that the proposed bloodline hardly seems worth 30 points to me. It applies a nerfed ability to learn how to do physical motions, and only if there's someone who is already better and capable of doing those motions doing these motions in ideal viewing conditions. We can't do it mid-fight, we can't do it if it's foggy or raining, and we have to see it done multiple times before we can do it ourselves.

While it sounds good on paper, I fear the strict conditions on the Iron Nerve bloodline would make it markedly less useful than either potentially Sage level chakra sensing or perfect internal chakra control.
 
Yeah, I'm aware of soul's gross advantages, I just think they'll turn out vastly weaker in actual play. To consider an example, say we want to raise Chakra Control. How many people do we know of for whom Chakra Control is the #1 highest Skill, who we would have a reasonable shot at killing?

...Sakura? I can't think of anyone else.

The clan ninjas probably all specialize in clan-specific stuff, so we would have to Itachi them to get to a good level. Search is actually going to be a huge issue. We can't just kill willy-nilly because the technique requires us to stand over their corpse for several minutes afterwards, completely vulnerable, which rules out using it in the midst of combat.

If we kill in an un-focused fashion without target research, we'll end up with a large number of level 1 Skills that could have been bought for 1 xp anyway. Remember, specific Taijutsu styles are individual skills, and each technique is an individual skill. Most high-level techniques probably aren't even useful unless they're high-level.

If we kill in a focused fashion, we run into the problem of search. How many people are 1) stronger than us in our skill of choice, but 2) weak enough to feasibly kill, with 3) that specific skill as their highest, in 4) our reasonable search radius, that 5) we can kill and stand over their corpse for several minutes without drawing massive sociopolitical consequences? That pretty much rules out all Konoha ninja, so our only valid targets are other missing nin? Conditions 1 + 2 are hard enough to satisfy. Add in 3 and 4 and it looks daunting. Condition 5 on top of all that makes it look like a pipe dream. It's basically a power we can't profitably use unless the GMs dole out favorable circumstances by fiat, until we're jounin-level and able to defy established power structures.

And, of course, that's leaving out the problematic characterization such a shinobi would require. I don't want to play a total sociopath!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but messing around in AnyDice it seems every skill rank of difference changes the average by about +-50, and higher total skill levels only increase how far from the average we can expect to go (standard deviation). Going by what @eaglejarl said about the dice mechanics, that means a single rank of difference averages a critical success, and two or more ranks are double or more that.

We're already looking a decisive victories for a single rank, and if we're expecting chunin/jonin hunter-nin after us at any point... well, I guess my question is, can we expect to have a chance at existing after our homeland figures out we're not already dead? If they send even a single jonin with better Stealth and Awareness skills then than anyone on our team, how do we avoid Game Over?

After all, our highest jonin are disposable enough to be sent on a suicide mission en masse, and if the skills are that far apart at the top, it seems like they should have a least a single Jonin that can wipe the floor with our entire team.

It should be (32.5/50), not (13/50), no?

I would just like to point out on the Stealth Assassin build that the proposed bloodline hardly seems worth 30 points to me. It applies a nerfed ability to learn how to do physical motions, and only if there's someone who is already better and capable of doing those motions doing these motions in ideal viewing conditions. We can't do it mid-fight, we can't do it if it's foggy or raining, and we have to see it done multiple times before we can do it ourselves.

While it sounds good on paper, I fear the strict conditions on the Iron Nerve bloodline would make it markedly less useful than either potentially Sage level chakra sensing or perfect internal chakra control.

It doesn't have anything to do with observation, what it does is let you recall and replicate any physical movement you've successfully performed before. It's not a crappy Sharingan, it's like if someone took the motor-cortex interface of the Sharingan and turned it recursively in on itself, while integrating it into the full nervous system.
 
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Yeah, i too feel uncomfortable about the Iron Nerve. Especially the part that says the user and any Sharingan user knows that their offspring have a possibility to be bona-fide Uchiha (somehow).

One would think that if we knew, our village knew. And why in the fuck would a village send a Genin that has the potential to spawn a clan with one of the Three Great Dojutsu on a suicide mission?
 
If they send even a single jonin with better Stealth and Awareness skills then than anyone on our team, how do we avoid Game Over?
Well that is the question that we're hoping you all figure out an answer to. I've thought up some strategies that would give better odds than others, but we fully expect you to surprise us at some point. You're clever people, I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work.

Do note that if it becomes known that there is a soul stealing monster actively stealing souls, this will have rather far-reaching effects.
 
It doesn't have anything to do with observation, what it does is let you recall and replicate any physical movement you've successfully performed before. It's not a crappy Sharingan, it's like if someone took the motor-cortex interface of the Sharingan and turned it recursively in on itself, while integrating it into the full nervous system.
A tendency to reproduce motions you've done before would probably actualy severely retard the learning process, as bad habits formed the first time an act is done would be retained indefinitely.

Yeah, i too feel uncomfortable about the Iron Nerve. Especially the part that says the user and any Sharingan user knows that their offspring have a possibility to be bona-fide Uchiha (somehow).

One would think that if we knew, our village knew. And why in the fuck would a village send a Genin that has the potential to spawn a clan with one of the Three Great Dojutsu on a suicide mission?
This is also a point.
 
Yeah, i too feel uncomfortable about the Iron Nerve. Especially the part that says the user and any Sharingan user knows that their offspring have a possibility to be bona-fide Uchiha (somehow).

One would think that if we knew, our village knew. And why in the fuck would a village send a Genin that has the potential to spawn a clan with one of the Three Great Dojutsu on a suicide mission?

Well, the probability for prior generations would have been minuscule (hence So Close, Yet So Far). 1/128 for your mom, 1/512 for her parents, etc. So prior to your generation, it would only have been a theoretical quirk known to the family, and kept as a shameful secret in a clan tired of being considered Mist's Strictly Worse Uchiha Variant (every Village has one!).

The eugenics program probably would have been successful within ~2-4 more generations, but the Mist pogrom wasn't exactly the work of a well-grounded mind.

A tendency to reproduce motions you've done before would probably actualy severely retard the learning process, as bad habits formed the first time an act is done would be retained indefinitely.

Yes, a tendency you couldn't control would be extremely useless, just like Kakashi would be worthless if he accidentally performed one of his Sharingan-memorized jutsu every time he made a movement. That's why it's an active power that can be seamlessly toggled. We remember the movements we've made, but we don't have to replicate a given one unless we want to.
 
Yes, a tendency you couldn't control would be extremely useless, just like Kakashi would be worthless if he accidentally performed one of his Sharingan-memorized jutsu every time he made a movement. That's why it's an active power that can be seamlessly toggled. We remember the movements we've made, but we don't have to replicate a given one unless we want to.

In that event, we'd still have to learn things at the same pace as normal people. It'd just make it easier to make a move in the exact same way we did at practice. Unless it allows for some conscious variation like moving an extra half-step it will still have questionable usefulness on the battlefield.
 
Thanks for the catch. I meant to put 13/20 (division by 5). Here's the new link, and I'm updating my post. It doesn't change the numbers much, though.

Hm, for X+Y = 5, the denominator equals 2.85; for X+Y = 10, the denominator equals 4.5... yeah, that's rough. What's the chance of the less-skilled ninja forcing a tie at 4 skill vs 3 skill?

I imagine the stark differences do taper off at mid-high skill ranks, though. Graphing "14 skill vs 9 skill" yields a similar, but much flatter curve to "6 skill vs 3 skill," even if the chances of the lower-skilled shinobi winning are similar in either case.
 
I am looking forward to the start of the game, and would like to thank everyone who is working on making this quest. I do not have much more to add to the discussion about our character so will abstain from further commenting until the game starts or a new vote is called for. As it stands our character already has a bloodline of sorts, a hive mind of optimizers focused on increasing his personal growth and survival with knowledge beyond what would normally be expected of a standard genin.
 
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