While I would understand your position if this were real life, the fact remains that it isn't. This is fiction. A quest, specifically. Ono is a thoroughly unpleasant fictional character, and the work as a whole and all of its readers are worse off because of her presence. We have no particular reason to insist on reading more about her, especially since she'll stop appearing in the story (except as a valuable resource) if we don't.

(Aaaand someone's Soul Gem is clearly about to shatter... :oops:)
I get why you as a reader are annoyed at Ono. She's clearly there to test our patience, as SWB (?) commented.

...Beacon, the problem there is that we're kind of playing a savior archetype character. A decidedly warped one, given that Firn's approaching things more realistically, and we're really no Madoka...but one of the character goals is to try and help everyone, to the point where she went out of her way to make that happen for people who'd done far worse than be snarly at us. That and...it's kind of having the character let someone else die and be submitted to literally continuous torture if we write her off.

Honestly, I don't think most of the canon cast would do that with the knowledge Sabrina has. Homura, possibly. Kyouko, a definite maybe. All of the other main characters? Uhhhh yeah no, they wouldn't do that and would be horrified if it ever came out.

That, and I suspect letting Ono die would have very, very unpleasant consequences down the road. Not only is it the morally wrong choice to just write off someone who might be brain damaged by magic, who definitely doesn't know better, and most of all hasn't really done anything to deserve being left to die...it'd meant all Kyubey would need to do to break Mami and everyone else's trust in us from then on would be to tell the entire, literal truth of what we did. Our whole approach to things in general in on offering a better option. That makes being the savior-type more of a necessity than anything given how distrustful everyone is likely to be...and that's without us leaving people to die and possibly trying to conceal it.

If we want happy fluff-times without horrifying trauma, dealing with Ono and trying to get through to her is the way to do it.
'Ono? Oh, she turned into a Witch, like most Puella Magi do. Sabrina came by later and killed that Witch. Didn't she tell you?'

tl;dr: giving up on Ono over her being a bitch is completely out of character and seems very much like a trap option for later trauma that might literally ruin everything

Again, she's a teenaged girl with issues. Show some sympathy.
This. So much this.

Ono here is probably a lonely, scared, but fundamentally good person who needs help and hugs. Just like most of the PMMM cast.

Apply hugs, damnit. If we can't apply hugs, get through to the point where we can. Don't take her lashing out in anger or putting up a front at face value and ruin everything because of it. That's the way canon happens. We don't want canon to happen.

That said, some initial anger over the 'crony' remark would make sense...and shut down potential Mami trauma if we do say nothing.

[x]Say what you want about me, but don't you dare call Mami a crony. Or Homura. Mami's one of the kindest people I know. You don't know anything about either of them...and they're here because they give a damn about what happens to you and want to help you.
[x]Homura. Put that away, please.
[x]Calm yourself before you keep speaking. Let Mami or Homura speak first if she has anything to say.
[x]Yes. We broke into your house. Because you are going to die if you keep doing things your way. That's why we did it, and why you need to listen to us.
-[x]You're using your magic too much. Do that and your gem fills up with grief. If it's full? That kills you.
--[x]It gets worse. Remember what you felt like when we found you? That won't go away unless you use a grief seed...and the worse it gets, the less likely you are to want to do something about it. Grief's self-reinforcing.
--[x]That's why grief seeds are so important. Why you need to use them, and why most Puella Magi need to hunt constantly to stay alive. Why I want to try and cleanse everyone...and why I gave that grief seed to you.
[x]If you never want to see us again, we'll do that...but only after we're sure you'll be alright on your own. You think I'm a meddler? Fine. Show me that you don't need me to meddle and I promise you'll never see me again. You can hunt Witches on your own if that's really what you want then...but only when we're sure you won't actually die.
[x]If Mami lets you go, will you listen to us?


Breaking there so we can react properly to however Ono takes it.
 
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And yet, here we are, failing at getting through to her. Either not so simple as you claim, or we're worse than Homura at social. Which is it?
Ehh~ Like I said earlier in the thread, we're not failing. It's just the situation isn't responding as fast as our grief control, and that frustrates us.
We knew the obstacles when we were going into this conversation, and now we're navigating around those obstacles.

And I said simple in comparison. Ono hasn't been exploiting magical girls, we're not needing to negotiate a treaty, we didn't have to bust face to get here. Simple. It's just talking.
 
And constantly and unceasingly failing at getting through to her and those like her (i.e. Akiko) through social means is good...how??
It's wrong not to try. Abandoning her to get herself killed is bad. I don't really understand why people are seriously considering just leaving her? We know she'll get herself killed/witch out and then an innocent teenaged girl will have suffered a fate worse than death because she was kind of a bitch.
 
And constantly and unceasingly failing at getting through to her and those like her (i.e. Akiko) through social means is good...how??
I'm assuming we can succeed eventually with her, if not Akiko when we go to check up on her. At worst, we can say we tried and failed rather than just giving up on problem cases. (ie: did the right thing)

Look at it this way: better to try and have Akiko in a coma than to just tear through her and her gang and smash their gems in front of a bunch of horrified fellow megucas. I don't want the character to be a murderer, even indirectly, and definitely not over something as petty as 'she's kind of a stubborn, stupid bitch'.

We don't want to go full Homu.

Or what Corny and Gadjo said.
 
Look at it this way: better to try and have Akiko in a coma than to just tear through her and her gang and smash their gems in front of a bunch of horrified fellow megucas. I don't want the character to be a murderer, even indirectly, and definitely not over something as petty as 'she's kind of a stubborn, stupid bitch'.
Where did I ever advocate this?
 
And hell, Aikko doesn't have to always be considered a failure. It's entirely possible that we come up with a solution to help with her wish's mental rewiring. Perhaps through Witch conversion, perhaps through therapy.
 
Where did I ever advocate this?
Okay, fair enough. It still works even without the part about gem smashing...and if we're playing for keeps, it'd be pretty tricky to get them all alive without gem smashing in that kind of situation. Not to mention the part where we'd effectively have killed them/put them all into permanent-for-now-comas without trying for the alternative.

And hell, Aikko doesn't have to always be considered a failure. It's entirely possible that we come up with a solution to help with her wish's mental rewiring. Perhaps through Witch conversion, perhaps through therapy.
Don't know about Witch conversion but we are going to need to find a magical therapist in the near future at this rate.

And agreed.
 
Okay, fair enough. It still works even without the part about gem smashing...and if we're playing for keeps, it'd be pretty tricky to get them all alive without gem smashing in that kind of situation. Not to mention the part where we'd effectively have killed them/put them all into permanent-for-now-comas without trying for the alternative.


Don't know about Witch conversion but we are going to need to find a magical therapist in the near future at this rate.

And agreed.
Operation "How do you Cash in a Gold Bar" will be a vital component.
 
The bit at the start needs to be there for Mami's sake and is relatively inoffensive...while getting across again that they're there for her sake. Then we explain the situation without escalating or provoking her, and give her a way for her to get rid of us that fulfills our goals and gives her some degree of control.

[x]Say what you want about me, but don't you dare call Mami a crony. Or Homura. Mami's one of the kindest people I know. You don't know anything about either of them...and they're here because they give a damn about what happens to you and want to help you.
[x]Homura. Put that away, please.
[x]Calm yourself before you keep speaking. Let Mami or Homura speak first if they have anything to say.
[x]Yes. We broke into your house. Because you are going to die if you keep doing things your way. That's why we did it, and why you need to listen to us.
-[x]You're using your magic too much. Do that and your gem fills up with grief. If it's full? That kills you.
--[x]It gets worse. Remember what you felt like when we found you? That won't go away unless you use a grief seed...and the worse it gets, the less likely you are to want to do something about it. Grief's self-reinforcing.
--[x]That's why grief seeds are so important. Why you need to use them, and why most Puella Magi need to hunt constantly to stay alive. Why I want to try and cleanse everyone...and why I gave that grief seed to you.
[x]If you never want to see us again, we'll do that...but only after we're sure you'll be alright on your own. You think I'm a meddler? Fine. Show me that you don't need me to meddle for you to stay alive and I promise you'll never see me again after that. You can hunt Witches on your own if that's really what you want, then...but only when we're sure you won't actually die.
[x]If Mami lets you go, will you listen to us?
 
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While I would understand your position if this were real life, the fact remains that it isn't. This is fiction. A quest, specifically. Ono is a thoroughly unpleasant fictional character, and the work as a whole and all of its readers are worse off because of her presence. We have no particular reason to insist on reading more about her, especially since she'll stop appearing in the story (except as a valuable resource) if we don't.

(Aaaand someone's Soul Gem is clearly about to shatter... :oops:)

And I disagree. I consider this an important part of our development.

Seriously, listen to Ugo, Corny and Gadjo.

I'm sorry to hear that, but trying to shock Ono into accepting our words is not helping. If she does somehow believe it's not a trick we purposefully prepared to fool her, I don't see how having a corpse in her room will not make her panic further.

Shocking people doesn't mean putting her in a better emotional state. It can backfire easily.

It might backfire, but I think purposely angering her is more likely to. I'm hoping she'll feel relieved when we cm back to life. Then she'll be much easier to convince.

Ono just asked a question.

We could answer. Since it's a question she made, there's a chance she'll listen to a single answer.

[] Thank Mami.
[] Honestly? Disparaging remarks aside, I find you to fragile to survive without help. When you started throwing a hissy fit tonight, I was worried you wouldn't make it until tomorrow, and well, lo and behold, you're filling up your Soul Gem about ten times faster than a depressed Magical Girl down on her luck and getting extorted out of her life line.

Maybe something else, something shorter, but we might have one shot at Ono listening to anything we have to say, if we answer this one question.

Answering the question properly is good.

I also think that Ugo's vote is also good as long as it's not stonewalled. I'm willing to switch to it and move my own vote to backup plan.
 
[] Keep trying to get Megane talking. Stop and listen when she does.
-[] Is that all she has to say to you? What else does she think of you?
--[] She was upset when you just cancelled on her without warning, right? For continuing to badger her? And now you're suddenly in her house.
-[] "Meddling foreigner and her cronies" What does she think you're here for? What does she think your group really is?
[] Ask her why she thinks you stopped her on the day you all first met.

I'm tired and can't think anymore. Honestly, Muramasa's original vote would probably be for the best if we can't think up a way here. Short and gets right to the point.
 
Im gonna be honest, most of what's getting thrown around here is the same sentiment, only with different wording.

Don't know that we're so hot at specific wording, so I think this vote of O's works the best on number of bases covered.

[] Smile, thank Mami.
[] Keep an eye on Ono's Gem.
[] If at any time Ono starts yelling or ranting, let her be, then continue:
-[] Tone: Passive aggresive? Trying to get her ranting.
-[] She's not scaring us with this. All of us fight nightmares every day, and today was specially bad.
-[] We'd really like to leave her alone, and it would be right, if she wasn't pretty much commiting suicide. We'll leave once we're certain she won't die if left alone.
-[] We didn't want her in our team because we knew she would help us. We want to help her.

Work with this people, phrasing ain't gonna help us.
 
Passive aggressive isn't a good tone, really...and while everyone's more or less on the same page, I don't think those points and phrasing are going to be good for getting Ono to listen to us or want to do what we say. It's coming over as smug and trying to order her around while belittling her. It'll make her hate us for that...and honestly from her POV, it's pretty well justified.
 
[X] Ask her why she thinks you had approached her so abruptly the day you met.
-[X] It's because her gem would have filled up completely and shattered had you done nothing and just let her go. Emotional turmoil combined with overuse of magic will do that.
-[X] She would have died. If her gem gets too corrupted, it will kill her. Either because it would weaken and distract her too much for a Witch, or because it will fill completely breaking her soul gem.
[X] If she keeps overusing her magic and her gem continues to get corrupted at this rate then she'll die. You know that she's already used up your seed. It should have lasted her far longer than this, which was partly why you were worried.
 
[] Keep trying to get Megane talking. Stop and listen when she does.
-[] Is that all she has to say to you? What else does she think of you?
--[] She was upset when you just cancelled on her without warning, right? For continuing to badger her? And now you're suddenly in her house.
-[] "Meddling foreigner and her cronies" What does she think you're here for? What does she think your group really is?
[] Ask her why she thinks you stopped her on the day you all first met.
Hey, everybody, question? What if the Kyuubey shadowrunning about him poisoning relations between us is real, in some way? Wouldn't that be an effective bar to this conversation, until we've dealt with it? Just saying...
 
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So if we're going to go for the "get Megane to talk", can we at least improve it. Getting the feeling we'd hit a brick wall with current vote, at best.
 
[x] To answer your question: You don't know how to survive as a magical girl. You are burning through an insane amount of magic. To put it in perspective, the average magical girl can go about a week before they need to use a grief seed. You are going through at least one grief seed a day even without fighting a witch. That's irregular and not sustainable.
[x] Not only that, but you are horribly underestimating the threat the witches present, and I don't know why. I take it you've fought at least one witch. Maybe you got really lucky and that witch happened to be a really easy one. I don't know. I really hope you're not treating one witch as a base line for all the witches your going to encounter.
-[x] Underestimating the witches will cost you your life. That goes for everyone in this room. Not just you.
[x] When we found you, you were about to fight a very dangerous witch with your soul gem half way corrupted, no grief seeds to fall back on and yourself in no emotional state to be fighting witches in the first place. There is a very good chance, you would have died had you fought that witch.
[x] Now I'm not asking you to talk about your personal life. But as a magical girl, you have some serious problems that will get you killed if we don't address them. They can be fixed. But we have to talk about them.
 
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[x] Honestly, I should leave you like that for the crony remark. You don't disrespect my friends Miss Ono. You don't know anything about them, and yet somehow they give a damn about you despite yourself. You want to insult someone? You insult me.
[x] To answer your question: You're a dysfunctional magical girl who almost got herself killed yesterday. You're not doing much better today. You're burning through your magic at an insane rate. You're horribly underestimating the threat of witches in general and quite frankly I don't see you surviving past the next day or two.
[x] You have anything you want to say to that? I'm listening. We have all the time in the world right now.
[x]We are not leaving until we've truly talked about this.
 
Did we get anything out of her outside the 'gaijin and her cronies' comment she made whiel angry? I want to know more, and trying to only help has resulted in her walling us off.
[X] *shake head* "I can't."
[X] "You're dying and you don't even know it."
[x] Megane, we wouldn't have broken in like this if your life wasn't in danger.
-[x] Take one of your Grief Seeds (Andrea). Place it on a desk or bedside.
[X] Stand with Mami and Homura.
[X] "Please calm down. No one here wants to hurt you."

Well, this is the plan that was executed last update. But I'll note we got interrupted on the "dying" line, didn't continue at any point, and Mami took over for the rest of what was said. I'm unsure if she even heard what we were saying at all.




Anyway, here's something that tries to engage what she's said, hopefully in a way that may allow her to be angry without escalating.

[X] Convey our appreciation to Mami non-verbally.
[X] Calmly. Let her respond to each line if she's inclined to. If she interrupts, let her finish. Pick up again after, repeating if necessary, or picking a response to what she said if one applies and would be helpful, or create a response along the same lines as the below if none apply.
-[X] I'm sorry I had to break into your home.
-[X] I understand that you feel slighted when I cancelled our appointment earlier.
-[X] I apologize that I needed to bother you about meeting today.
-[X] I needed to talk with you today because you haven't been told what you need to know to survive as a magical girl.
-[X] I chose to intrude against your will because you would die if I did nothing. Your soul gem would fill, break, and you would be gone.
-[X] I'm not going to leave until I'm satisfied you are taking me seriously.

I don't see a point in continuing the vote past that point, because what we say next will entirely depend on the degree of success or failure. Hopefully there's a grudging acceptance that we'll have to talk, and we can actually get to the point. Hopefully.
 
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