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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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We need more combat stats, yeah.

Still!

I'm pleasantly surprised that the Explosiver runes didn't register as 'this could reshape society/kill cities' on Kei's radar, even if they are smaller than the lightning storm. And it's always nice to set off massive fuckhuge explosives without attracting ninja!

I'm even more pleased by the Mark II. The ability to create runic-tier explosives at range? We need one in every base we ever build. It's the perfect Goketsu device! We finally, finally have something that really matters against S-Rankers, even if we'd be screwed without our barriers once they figure out our location and close the gap. And we have barriers!

acidshill said:
I think we can probably do an action plan to meet Orochimaru and receive his report of the situation before we get those rune mechanics. Although probably the very next update would be planning our attack with him, for which we need those mechanics. I'm just assuming voting will open after Orochimaru tells us what's going on, because that's usually the way it works.
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Personally, I'm just hoping that Oro's spread focus means that he hasn't yet figured out how to decouple the rift (he lacks Minatosealing), and that we're about to seriously impress him.

I doubt it, and it's much more likely he's either come up with the same stuff as us, or he's come up with something complementary (push/pull runes). Still, Minatosealing, the chakdar/chakrascope, the Iron Nerve, timewarping, our replacement for Disciple of the Beyond… we have our own advantages, so I'm going to hope.

And we're going to kill Hidan, becoming Jashin's new High Priest. I hope.

Although we haven't made a Thousand-Yard Stare-based memetic explosive yet, so we could be doomed to fail.

Oh, Jashin, why didn't we just use our Disciple Of The Beyond insight and study our own madness? Oh, right, bad idea. Why didn't we study Mari and… no, worse idea.

Huh. How did our (possible alternate) make the selective TYS-based murderrune?

Edit: Oh, the Battle of Sanity Sundered demands Ami escape from the Bearutoverse. Never mind, that's never going to happen. Just a trick of the paint.

We've got a real chance!
 
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Cariyaga said:
So, uh. Are we just ignoring that Oro will either have kept in contact with Tsunade himself or intentionally not have done this? Because... I only see one of those being true.
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He'll have done one of those two. by learning which, we can figure out what his game is.

I expect that she'll say one of:
"yeah, I already know, I'm coordinating with Oro on Naruto's behalf"
"WHAT!? no, I hadn't heard that. He went missing and refuses all contact, he must be planning to steal it for himself."

The point of contacting her is to distinguish between these cases.
 
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boo600 said:
We finally, finally have something that really matters against S-Rankers, even if we'd be screwed without our barriers once they figure out our location and close the gap.
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Eh, Remote Explosiver is an ambush strike. It can't do anything else.
I think our biggest win against essies is actually Ninja Radar. Now that's a really good silver bullet to have. 1km range spying device ? Makes surprise attacks against us all but impossible ? Lets us better set up the ambushes we so desperately need ?
Now that's a top-tier Rune.
 
Ladies and gentlemen… We've done it. Now for the easy part! Sneaking the runes into the most closely monitored Akatsuki space, and not getting murdered for it—
 
Left-Hand Mutant said:
He'll have done one of those two. by learning which, we can figure out what his game is.

I expect that she'll say one of:
"yeah, I already know, I'm coordinating with Oro on Naruto's behalf"
"WHAT!? no, I hadn't heard that. He went missing and refuses all contact, he must be planning to steal it for himself."

The point of contacting her is to distinguish between these cases.
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Right, so, my qeustion then I guess is like... what is the Oro team actually doing? It says Oro team, it says prepare to join Oro, but it never says whether or not they are going to Oro.

If we're not... well, I guess we have time to decide against joining him, but like... i don't think we decide that even if he intends to steal it for himself? Because the idea there is to just get on his good side. Which contacting Leaf outside of his remit is absolutely not.

And if we are, then we're contacting Leaf outside his remit anyway and going to piss him off in person.
 
Cariyaga said:
Right, so, my qeustion then I guess is like... what is the Oro team actually doing? It says Oro team, it says prepare to join Oro, but it never says whether or not they are going to Oro.

If we're not... well, I guess we have time to decide against joining him, but like... i don't think we decide that even if he intends to steal it for himself? Because the idea there is to just get on his good side. Which contacting Leaf outside of his remit is absolutely not.

And if we are, then we're contacting Leaf outside his remit anyway and going to piss him off in person.
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Renamed it to the "Rice Team" to reduce confusion.
The plan does not have us contact Oro yet. We'll see what we can learn about the situation, then decide.

If Oro plans to steal the rift for himself, I'd very much like to derail that, either by proactively inviting Leaf to join, or by letting him attack the rift solo and picking off whoever survives.

If Oro is stealing the rift without Leaf, he probably dosen't plan to share it. If he was willing to share it, he'd be likley to be working with Leaf and enjoying the extra firepower from Tsunade/Naruto.
 
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If we are worried Orochimaru is betraying us, we should send Mari to talk to him, alone. She is the only one who has a chance of escaping his rune-prepared ground (if she sends a clone and waits a mile away on a Skytower), and she might be able to win a Deceit roll against him and suss out whether he's planning to backstab us.

[X] Interlude: Finalize Rune Mechanics
[X] Interlude: Here's the team, Cannai
 
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Cariyaga said:
[X] Interlude: Here's the team, Cannai
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RandomOTP said:
[X] Interlude: Here's the team, Cannai
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Noumero said:
[X] Interlude: Here's the team, Cannai
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A reminder that with the Leopard war still ongoing (unless it finished since we last checked, I guess?) Cannai will have to return to the Seventh Path immediately. Like, probably the combat round after being summoned. I'm not expecting him to have time to do much of anything, let alone engaging in extended conversation.

Edit: Actually, @eaglejarl @Paperclipped @Velorien , how is the Leopard war going? Hazō's been carrying messages on DotB rest days, so he should have a general sense.
 
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Noumero said:
If we are worried Orochimaru is betraying us, we should send Mari to talk to him, alone. She is the only one who has a chance of escaping his rune-prepared ground (if she sends a clone and waits a mile away on a Skytower), and she might be able to win a Deceit roll against him and suss out whether he's planning to backstab us.
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Orochimaru loathes social specs, and Ami said his policy is to attack first when they try anything, or when he thinks they might be trying anything. We witnessed this firsthand when Mari tried to distract Orochimaru from vivisecting Kei.

Whereas Hazou actually has a positive rapport with Orochimaru, and seems to have gained (if not Orochimaru's respect, then at least) his acknowledgment.

I suspect that if we send Mari, Orochimaru will wound her out of annoyance before telling her to fetch us.
 
My ideal approach is: Keep MariKeiTenKago aside as backup (of the form: make contact with the ninja in podunk village if we do not make contact within X time), and go visit Oro with Noburi and Yuno.

Do not try any sneaky bullshit about trying to get into contact with Leaf without him agreeing to its necessity; anything we try will not be sufficiently-sneaky on a few hours' RL thought, see how he got a message to us. Try to convince him of that, and make it clear that if (and only if) he wishes to return to Leaf, Hazou can make that happen. If he doesn't wanna return to Leaf, let it lie, and do our utmost to capture the rift either way.

If he attempts to retain sole ownership of it, make the note that he will presumably not be the first to explore it, given the completely unknown risk factors it poses, and Hazou is uniquely suited to doing so, being an asset that's capable of runecraft.
 
Cariyaga said:
My ideal approach is: Keep MariKeiTenKago aside as backup (of the form: make contact with the ninja in podunk village if we do not make contact within X time), and go visit Oro with Noburi and Yuno.

Do not try any sneaky bullshit about trying to get into contact with Leaf without him agreeing to its necessity; anything we try will not be sufficiently-sneaky on a few hours' RL thought, see how he got a message to us. Try to convince him of that, and make it clear that if (and only if) he wishes to return to Leaf, Hazou can make that happen. If he doesn't wanna return to Leaf, let it lie, and do our utmost to capture the rift either way.
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I approve of this approach, though I think I'd rather bring Mari than Yuno (much more stable, greater combat power with SC, ability to potentially beat Oro's Deceit would be useful). Bringing Noburi in particular means that if we decide to go with Oro we can start shaping blanks (at least, those small enough to store or carry to/from the Seventh Path) from his substrate immediately, without having to wait for the Fire team to rejoin us to get Noburi's chakra.

Additional note on that, actually; Oro is probably way stronger (like, physically) than we are and is also a summoner. We almost certainly can't lift our 625-point rune blanks, but he might be able to, so he might be able to carry them to Snake and back. That would let us make RE 2.0 blanks in advance, which would dramatically reduce the required setup time on site.
 
Which could be critical - Hidan's ridiculous luck is one of the most dangerous things about him, so minimizing set up time could be crucial, and should be a high priority.

I'm not sure if we can summon Cannai - Does the capacitor rune, which - as far as I'm aware - only gathers environmental chakra in one place, rather than making it available to us, interact well with summoning? Because, if the chakra envelope forms easily in a high concentration of chakra, that could help – but if not, then I'm not sure if we can summon Cannai, Noburi overcharge or no.

What tests have we made with the capacitor rune? I don't remember any.
 
strange_person said:
If [Noburi] has CR 40 and two purchases of ACE, I think that would mean [that his Shadow Clones have] a capacity of 441?
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No, sorry. Shadow Clones do not benefit from bloodlines or from ACE. They also aren't penalized by bloodlines, so it's something of a wash. Noburi explains his understanding of why, based on his research results: the Shadow Clone technique creates an entirely artificial chakra system for the shadow clone that isn't actually based on the physical chakra coils of the wielder. It's why his clones don't mimic his own coils, which physically are not 'full size'. He also thinks this explains why the shadow clones weren't affected by the chakra coil-smoothing effect in Orochimaru's cave. When created, they didn't copy the user's smoothed-out coils, and whatever their chakra systems are made of, they didn't respond in the same way as biological chakra systems to the cave water.


strange_person said:
Potentially important edge case: let's say Noburi makes two shadow clones. Akai One currently has fifty chakra, while Akai Two has a hundred. Akai One pops. How much does Akai Two end up with? Optimistic interpretation would be 125, but if it's all getting redistributed, could be considerably less.
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The existing rulings use this algorithm:
  1. Take all chakra of caster and their clones, put it in a pool
  2. Divide by number of instances
  3. Set all instances chakra total to that number, capped at your max.
  4. Prime gets leftover points on a non-integer divide.
  5. Anything over your max is lost.
Given that, this should have been an easy question. Still, the issue of 'what if one instance has different capacity than the rest' hasn't come up before, so we decided to reevaluate how to handle chakra rebalancing. After evaluation, we decided to be nice and come up with a more complicated algorithm that would work in the players' favor.


The Shadow Clone jutsu redistributes chakra among the network in its best attempt to put everyone at the same total without wasting chakra, with Prime getting any extra points left over from the remainder of the averaging. Basically, this amounts to "set everyone to the average chakra in the network, capped by their max. If there is chakra left over because someone had a lower max CP, divide it up again and Prime gets leftovers first."

The exact algorithm it uses is:
  1. Put all chakra from the entire network into a pool, notionally setting everyone's CP to 0
  2. Divide the pool by {number of instances who are not at full chakra} to get the target amount (call this 'Award' chakra)
  3. Give each instance 'Award' chakra. If Prime is not at full then start with them, otherwise start with an arbitrarily-chosen clone that is not at full. If 'current + Award' overflows their max then the excess goes back in the pool
  4. If there is still chakra left in the pool, divide what remains among those who are not at full. (i.e., go to step 2 and do a second round)
  5. Chakra remaining in the pool is lost.
Notes:
  • Everyone is notionally set to 0 on the first round, meaning that Prime will definitely not be full on the first round, so the first round always starts with them
  • There will never need to be more than two rounds

Things get complicated in two cases: when a caster has a different capacity than their clones (e.g. because of Noburi's freaky bloodline), or when the caster has the benefit of the Akimichi Chakra Enhancement (ACE) stunt. Shadow Clones do not benefit from the ACE.


Scenario 1: Simplest case

Bob has CR 30 and therefore a max of 300 CP. He's a normal bloke so his clones also have 30 CR and a max of 300 CP.
  • Bob the ninja: 207 CP
  • BobAlpha: 111 CP
  • BobBravo: 13 CP
That's 3 instances. BobBravo pops, leaving us with a pool of 331 CP and 2 instances. Final totals are:

  • Bob: 166 CP ; 331 / 2 = 165.5, Prime gets the extra point
  • BobAlpha: 165 CP

Scenario 2: Max capacity exceeded

Alice has CR 38, max CP of 380. She too is a normal bloke.
  • Alice: 380 CP (i.e., she's full)
  • AliceAlpha: 316
  • AliceBravo: 283
  • AliceCharlie: 281
That's 4 instances. AliceCharlie pops, leaving us with a pool of 1260 and 3 instances, meaning that everyone should get 420 CP, which is above everyone's capacity. Therefore, everyone gets filled to full and the remaining chakra is lost. Final totals are:

  • Alice: 380 CP (max)
  • AliceAlpha: 380
  • AliceBravo: 380
  • 120 CP wasted

Scenario 3: Someone has ACE

Shadow Clones do not benefit from ACE.
  • Hazō: 389 CP (max, based on CR37 + 1 instance of ACE giving +5%)
  • HazōAlpha: 302 CP (max of 370 due to Hazō's CR37)
  • HazōBravo: 307 CP (max of 370 due to Hazō's CR37)
  • HazōCharlie: 264 CP (max of 370 due to Hazō's CR37)
That's 4 instances. HazōCharlie pops, leaving us with a pool of 1262 and 3 instances, meaning that everyone should get 420 CP, which is above everyone's capacity. Therefore, everyone gets filled to full and the remaining chakra is lost. Final totals are:

  • Hazō: 389 CP
  • HazōAlpha: 370 CP
  • HazōBeta: 370 CP
  • 131 CP lost

Scenario 4: Caster (e.g. Noburi) has different max than clones

Noburi has only 3 internal chakra, but he has Chakra Reserves 40 and 2 instances of ACE. Again, Shadow Clones do not benefit from the ACE instances.

Noburi's bloodline means that he started life with a max of 1 internal CP, which is the number that the Shadow Clone jutsu checks when determining current and maximum capacity. His 2 instances of ACE have expanded that to a massive 3 CP instead. His Shadow Clones do not get his bloodline or his ACE instances, so they each have a max of 400 CP based on his CR40.
  • Noburi: 1 CP
  • NoburiAlpha: 49 CP
  • NoburiBravo : 100 CP
That's 3 instances. NoburiBravo pops, leaving us with a pool of 150 CP and 2 instances. Both instances get 75 CP…except Noburi has a max internal capacity of 3 CP, so 72 CP is excess and goes back in the pool for a second round. NoburiAlpha gets his 75 award and then the pool is divided among all remaining instances who are not at full. NoburiAlpha is the only such instance, so he collects the rest of the pool. That leaves us with:
  • Noburi: 3 CP
  • NoburiAlpha: 147 CP ; (75 in the first round + 72 in the second)

Scenario 5: Weird bloodline + max exceeded
  • Noburi: 3 CP
  • NoburiAlpha: 227 CP
  • NoburiBravo: 381 CP
  • NoburiCharlie: 400 CP (his max)
That's 4 instances. NoburiCharlie pops, leaving us with a pool of 1011 CP and 3 instances. Everyone gets 337 CP. That overflows Noburi by 334 CP, so that goes back in the pool for next round.

Totals after round 1:

  • Noburi: 3 CP
  • NoburiAlpha: 337 CP
  • NoburiBravo: 337 CP
  • Remaining in the pool: 334 CP
We now have a second round. There is 334 CP in the pool and 2 instances who are not full. They each therefore get 167 CP; they each have a max of 400, so they can only accept another 63 each with the remaining 104 from each going back into the pool.

Final totals:
  • NP: 3 CP
  • NB: 400 CP (337 + 167, capped at 400 because that's their max, so 104 left over)
  • NC: 400 CP (ditto)
  • Remaining in the pool: 208 CP. All instances are at full, so the pool is lost.


I was looking back through some old posts because reasons and I came across this one:

faflec said:
Watch out Asuma, Hidan's gonna kill ya!

...wait a minute.
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This was posted in June of 2021. Hidan did in fact kill Asuma in Chapter 617, which was published in September of 2023!

Apparently faflec's "joke" about having a forum filled with time-breaking copies of himself was less a joke and more a truth.
 
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eaglejarl said:
This was posted in June of 2021. Hidan did in fact kill Asuma in Chapter 617, which was published in September of 2023!

Apparently faflec's "joke" about having a forum filled with time-breaking copies of himself was less a joke and more a truth.
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I'm assuming he made this joke because this is exactly what happens in canon - Kurenai is pregnant and Asuma dies immediately thereafter by Hidan killing him

It's Asuma's canon event

Shrooms said:


The mf who framed Asuma

Sorry man, getting killed by Hidan is your Canon event
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