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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Buggy said:
Aramatsu
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I assume this is intended to be Amaterasu? Overall an excellent post, clearly presented with only this one instance of autocorrect or spellcheck making it unclear. I think I'd want to first test the viability of "create air dome/similar barrier at center of destructive effect" before we go straight to Project Ice Cube.

Sir Stompy said:
Am I missing something? Is the implication that he's going to have to cut Nobs up to do this? Examination does not have connotations of surgery IMO.
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I can back this up, for what it's worth- I've been medically examined a great many times for checkups and similar and I've only had one minor surgery in my life.
 
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DanZapman said:
I assume this is intended to be Amaterasu? Overall an excellent post, clearly presented with only this one instance of autocorrect or spellcheck making it unclear. I think I'd want to first test the viability of "create air dome/similar barrier at center of destructive effect" before we go straight to Project Ice Cube.
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Whoops, fixed! Thanks for pointing it out.
 
[] Training Plan (Hazou): Minimum Callig for RRB unstagnation

[X] Training Plan (Hazou): Callig and Loot
Calligraphy 42 -> 45 (-132xp)
Mud Hut 0 -> 1 (-0.5xp)
Fertility Jutsu 0 -> 1 (-0.5xp)
 
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[X] Training Plan (Hazou): Minimum Callig for RRB unstagnation
I'm fine with that. We can't work on RRBs for three weeks still since that's when our Consequence clears but we will eventually need these levels.

@T_of_A Any chance we can get a PS level on top of that? We can afford one or likely two depending on how long the update covers.
 
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[X] [Hazo Training] None

There's no reason to commit to spending Hazou's XP before we spend some prep days finding out if where we are in regards to runecrafting
 
Oneiros said:
[X] [Hazo Training] None

There's no reason to commit to spending Hazou's XP before we spend some prep days finding out if where we are in regards to runecrafting
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Well Callig 45 specifically we will need within three weeks of now for research that we've already started, no matter how amazing Runes are. Our XP rate allows us to fit both PS 20 and Callig 45 by then if the community decides to pursue the former which makes it a fine investment and I'd rather not sit on an XP pile forever on the off chance some meme vote cycle spends it all on Stealth or Deceit.
 
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Oneiros said:
[X] [Hazo Training] None

There's no reason to commit to spending Hazou's XP before we spend some prep days finding out if where we are in regards to runecrafting
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Due to a change to the rules for prep days, we've effectively taken a Calligraphy nerf. IIRC we need Callig 47 to maintain the level of skill we previously had.

And we've already tried RRBs ages ago. We know it's going to be quite difficult. The alternative to leveling Calligraphy is buying a lot of FP to rerolls.
I'll also note that we're not done researching high-end paper seals. Sure runes are great, but they're slow, defensive tools. Our main combat seals are probably going to stay paper seals for a while (and we've got Jiraiya's seal stash coming up). Researching top-end paper seals is going to need a little more Calligraphy than we have.

And of course it's possible Minatosealing will require Calligraphy (at least the biju seal chain seems to be ink on paper). We know TH is also required, but I'd be very surprised if having Calligraphy wasn't still needed to make things go faster.

EDIT:

[X] Training Plan (Hazou): Callig and Loot
Calligraphy 42 -> 45 (-132xp)
Mud Hut 0 -> 1 (-0.5xp)
Fertility Jutsu 0 -> 1 (-0.5xp)
 
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T_of_A said:
Due to a change to the rules for prep days, we've effectively taken a Calligraphy nerf. IIRC we need Callig 47 to maintain the level of skill we previously had. And we've already tried RRBs ages ago. We know it's going to be quite difficult. The alternative to leveling Calligraphy is buying a lot of FP to rerolls.

I'll also note that we're not done researching high-end paper seals. Sure runes are great, but they're slow, defensive tools. Our main combat seals are probably going to stay paper seals for a while (and we've got Jiraiya's seal stash coming up). Researching top-end paper seals is going to need a little more Calligraphy than we have.

And of course it's possible Minatosealing will require Calligraphy (at least the biju seal chain seems to be ink on paper). We know TH is also required, but I'd be very surprised if having Calligraphy wasn't still needed to make things go faster.
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Iirc Callig 47 isn't to maintain our former level of Skill, its to benefit from +3 from Iron Nerve which makes it Callig 50 AB 6. That being said, its not necessary for making rolls that we know are completely safe for RRBs already - it is unoptimal for that as rerolling -6s is many times cheaper there.

The general 2/3ds Sealing as Callig rule indicates that Callig 45 (+3 from Iron Nerve) = 48 + 10 (2 AB Prep) -> 58 * 3/2 = TN 87 Seals.
On the other hand, Callig 47 (+3 from IN) = 50 + 12 (2 AB Prep) = 62 = TN 93 Seals. Imo that's overkill with how XP strained we are.
 
Buggy said:
If the effect is overlapping solid ground, such that there is no airflow in one direction, the overall momentum should be downward, and so I expect it all impacts the solid interior of the effect regardless of the intricacies of the flow.
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Unless the solid core has incredible viscosity / tensile strength, you'd get toroidal flow around the edges, producing outward jets at ground level. More like sandblasting until it gets a chance to thaw, and probably less total cryogenic-liquid flooding than the original EM nuke, but I'm pretty sure there'd still be some.
Wherever particles of air-ice bounce off the core's surface, make it back out to the edge of the effect, and encounter normal-temperature materials, they'll flash-boil. If the resulting explosion reduces net incoming air flux in that vicinity, thus allowing more bounces to reach the edge, that would mean exhaust jets are self-reinforcing, so it'd be less stable than it seems based on an assumption of negligible turbulence.
 
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Crunbum said:
Iirc Callig 47 isn't to maintain our former level of Skill, its to benefit from +3 from Iron Nerve which makes it Callig 50 AB 6. That being said, its not necessary for making rolls that we know are completely safe for RRBs already - it is unoptimal for that as rerolling -6s is many times cheaper there.
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It is to reach our previous level of skill - we used to be able to prep up to Sealing AB days on callig, now it's only up to Callig days. We lost 6 points, effectively. We went from safe on -6 to only safe on 0 or better. IE, we only rerolled -9 or worse.

So now the plan is to buy 5 levels to get the next AB for one more day of prep, effectively 7 levels. This puts us back to where we were before, safe on -6 for RRB. Only buying 3 levels means rerolling on anything worse than -3, AKA rerolling -6 or worse.
 
Shrooms said:
It is to reach our previous level of skill - we used to be able to prep up to Sealing AB days on callig, now it's only up to Callig days. We lost 6 points, effectively. We went from safe on -6 to only safe on 0 or better. IE, we only rerolled -9 or worse.

So now the plan is to buy 5 levels to get the next AB for one more day of prep, effectively 7 levels. This puts us back to where we were before, safe on -6 for RRB. Only buying 3 levels means rerolling on anything worse than -3, AKA rerolling -6 or worse.
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But... we can do a time ladder bonus now. Why are we just ignoring that?
 
Twinnstars said:
But... we can do a time ladder bonus now. Why are we just ignoring that?
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That's for drawing a seal you already know. That was the buff. Essentially the QMs undid a weirdness where you could successfully research a seal with prepped calligraphy and then be unable to draw it afterwards because drawing the blank couldn't be timeladdered.
 
[X] Training Plan (Hazou): Callig and Loot
[X] Training Plan (Hazou): Minimum Callig for RRB unstagnation
 
Shrooms said:
That's for drawing a seal you already know. That was the buff. Essentially the QMs undid a weirdness where you could successfully research a seal with prepped calligraphy and then be unable to draw it afterwards because drawing the blank couldn't be timeladdered.
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Post in thread 'Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest' Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

I don't see anything in here about it being limited to seals we know?

Ah - is your interpretation that crafting seals is the set of "creating seal blanks for known seals" rather than "Creating seal blanks"? That would explain it
 
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I would like to note that pursuing GC 40 and a synergetic Earth Ninjutsu 40 attack is far stronger, cheaper and better for long-term pyramid breadth and available capstone-tier skills, than pursuing a Taij based offense, with or without Lightning Element for SoTS.

Benchmark 1 : Taijutsu 49 + SoTS (1405 XP)
Taijutsu 49 + Strength of the Storm 30 + RRBs
We will consider the best case scenario - that Hazou both applies Roki (Deceit 24 so that's unlikely against a Jounin) and the maximum 4 SoTS tags to the roll, inflicting 1 Stress to himself in the process.

Benchmark 2 : Earth Ninjutsu (518.5 XP)
Earth Dragon Bullet 40 + GC 40 + Elemental Journeyman Stunt
EDB is exact same as WDB, being a hacked variant to give us a benchmark on what we could expect from a good attack jutsu. At Level 40 it makes up to five attack rolls until it hits. This means it can be used against up to two targets with a guarantee that neither will get their Substitution bonus even if they both burn their supplementals. Jounin are likely to have Substitution 40 for a +20 so negating that is a huge deal. Against a single target, the attack effectively hits for the best of ~4 rolls on Fudge Dice, further improving it by an average of exactly 5 points.

Numbers
1. Taijutsu : 49 + 11 (RRB) + 20 (SoTS, 4 Tags at AB 5) + 5 (Roki) + 6 (Boost) = 86 if Roki fails or 91 if it Succeeds
2. EDB (Single Target Effectiveness) : 50 (40 + Earthshaping/4, capped at 50) + 5 (AB) + 10 (GC 2 AB) + 6 (Boost) + 20 (Multi-Attack bypasses Sub 40) + 5 (Dice Shift from best of 4 Rolls) = 96 or 111 with Elemental Advantage

Conclusions
- Even with Roki and 4 SoTS tags applied to the roll (1 Stress to self), the Taijutsu benchmark still hits at 5 points lower than a single target EDB 40 - or 30 lower in the extreme case in the other direction (Elemental Advantage, 3 SoTS tags, no Roki). Ninjutsu crushes, number wise.
- Despite performing far worse in rolls, the Taijutsu build costs a sky-high 2.71 times as much XP as the Earth Ninjutsu benchmark.
- Versatility-wise Earth Ninjutsu in EDB 40 GC 40 would offer a lot of options while Taijutsu would actively shrink them by forcing Hazou to close into melee and make himself vulnerable to even attack. Not only that, to roll higher than the benchmark, Hazou would long-term need to level Taijutsu into one of his high slots of the pyramid while the Ninjutsu build does not have such restrictions due to the Elemental Stunts.
 
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