- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
True but due to his double minor consequences he's taking a 1.8 penalty to his SC multiplier so he's setting at a .1.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
HAZOU: Good news! That murdergod you were so salty about me consorting with has joined Team Stop the Collapse of Civilisation!
SHIKAMARU: Hazou, it's four in the morning…
HAZOU: By the way, did you murder Akane?
SHIKAMARU: Hazou, it's four in the morning…
HAZOU: By the way, did you murder Akane?
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Concern: Before we do this, we need to ensure that either this doesn't actually empower Jashin, or that Jashin is an okay entity to empower.
In particular, this is something Shikamaru and Kei and Ami are definitely going to bring up in-universe. And if we don't loop them in, they'd likely consider Hazou to be Jashin-influenced already, and tell Asuma as much.
We need to get more data on Jashin from Hidan, then dump it on Shikamaru/Kei/Ami, and arrive at the best way forward with them.
Amazing update! I was on the edge of my seat until the dice roll, that was so fucking clutch. Losing all the villagers was a reality check though, I guess we have some influence with Hidan but not enough 
I guess for next update we just debrief asuma and go back to necro research?
I guess for next update we just debrief asuma and go back to necro research?
- Location
- Somewhere
I wonder if Jashin is the dice rolls, in the way that the Out is this thread.
In terms of pure number of deaths, and number of "sacrifices" Hazou is likely to make are going to be insubstantial difference in the total number of sacrifices Jashin gets, because Hidan.
Also, I want to be really careful about not giving Shikamaru reasons to kill us. the Dragonwar is a pretty good reason(for now), but still.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Sure, but the concern from the Thinkers' point of view would be that worshipping Jashin may be giving Him a foothold in Hazou's mind (which is already more accessible to eldritch horrors than most people's). And, like, look at it from their point of view. Hazou goes somewhere with Hidan, disappears off the map, and then comes back wanting to sacrifice things to Jashin at mass scale? Assume that Jashin is a possibly-superintelligent eldritch god, which means He is at least as capable as a social specialist. What would be your interpretation?
Plus it's not actually rock-solid that the raw number of sacrifices is what matters, as opposed to some symbolisms. (E. g., if Leaf as an institution now sacrifices all its criminals in Jashin's name, maybe that counts as Leaf worshipping Jashin? Who knows! (Maybe Hidan does!))
Agreed? I'm not sure if you're disagreeing with my proposed course of actions here. Looping him in is how we ensure he doesn't think we're compromised and in need of being caldera'd.
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So it might actually be a good idea to open a temple to Jashin in Leaf.
(No, no, hear me out. I'm going somewhere with this.)
When you think about it, Jashin is basically Mars. He's a martial prowess and fertility god who rewards boldness and killcount, and protects the growth of civilisation (farming, medicine, childbirth, etc.). And Mars was a really well-liked god.
Make it clear that Jashin worship is to be conducted along tower-approved lines (eg. "Kill the enemies of civilisation in general and Leaf in particular", "Leaf is a holy city", "Nurture and protect humanity") and we've got the makings of a non-politically-toxic religion here. Make Uplift an official Leaf philosophy, taught in the academy alongside Will of Fire and Spirit of Youth, and make it clear that Jashin is Cool With This, Actually (TM), and Wants You to Slaughter Leaf's Enemies, and we could spin this in a fairly decent direction.
We sell this to Asuma via Hidan being terrifying and demanding a Jashin cult, and explaining the Probability Maths to him. It turns out that the fighting/fertility god is real, and he wants to help us. You really turning down a god showing up with a leaf headband?
(No, no, hear me out. I'm going somewhere with this.)
When you think about it, Jashin is basically Mars. He's a martial prowess and fertility god who rewards boldness and killcount, and protects the growth of civilisation (farming, medicine, childbirth, etc.). And Mars was a really well-liked god.
Make it clear that Jashin worship is to be conducted along tower-approved lines (eg. "Kill the enemies of civilisation in general and Leaf in particular", "Leaf is a holy city", "Nurture and protect humanity") and we've got the makings of a non-politically-toxic religion here. Make Uplift an official Leaf philosophy, taught in the academy alongside Will of Fire and Spirit of Youth, and make it clear that Jashin is Cool With This, Actually (TM), and Wants You to Slaughter Leaf's Enemies, and we could spin this in a fairly decent direction.
We sell this to Asuma via Hidan being terrifying and demanding a Jashin cult, and explaining the Probability Maths to him. It turns out that the fighting/fertility god is real, and he wants to help us. You really turning down a god showing up with a leaf headband?
- Location
- Book Fort
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- They/Them
This would undermine the Will of Fire's religious monopoly within Leaf. The Hokage is considered the Will of Fire's living avatar/embodiment. Bringing in another religion would break that monopoly and undermine the Hokage's authority within Leaf. And Asuma needs all the authority he can muster. Asuma would not allow Jashinism to spread throughout Leaf.
I thought it was at one point and was retconned? Am I remembering that correctly?
- Location
- Yes.
Youthism and Toadism.
Well, I'm pleasantly surprised. Overall outcome here is not great, not terrible.
Church of Youth exists as a tier-two religion under WoF. Aim for the same deal.
Jashin gets Official Hokage Thumbs Up so long as his cult plays nice with the primacy of the hat.
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I think we might be able to find a way to sell it to him, if we can sell to Mari and Kei that building a temple to Jashin is actually a good idea and we aren't insane.
- Location
- Yes.
[X] Introduce Hidan to Yuno and Hanabi
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
IIRC, no one treats the Church of Youth as a religion, and instead treats it like a charity house/Food Bank/Goodwill. Further, I think it was Ami who said that Asuma can't repeal CoY without good cause for risk of personally undermining the previous Hokage's authority.
As for Toadism, even Noburi admitted that no one takes it seriously.
I think that this was told to Hazou back during the Silent War against the Hagoromo?
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
At one point, there was a proposal for a stunt called Prophet of the Out, which would have given Hazō Out-based socials and drastically transformed him as a character. After some discussion and experimentation with writing an Out!Hazō, the QMs decided not to use it.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Youthfulness is a philosophy that Lee can't even explain. Hazou has complained about it in-character before.
Jashinism literally preaches about a god above humanity that humans need to worship.
Jashin would undermine the Hokage's religious authority/monopoly in Leaf.
Nah, Jashin is just a new god joining the pantheon. The emperor is the chosen scion of Jupiter, and Absolutely In Charge, but Mars is still cool to have around.
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
I doubt you'll be able to convince Asuma about the benefits of going from having a monopoly on religious piety to sharing it with a blood god with an unknown scripture. I also doubt Asuma has the influence within Leaf to force the ninja populace to accept such a drastic change in theology. Further, I believe that trying to do so will only cause him to further doubt Hazou's loyalty to Leaf and his mental stability.
It's social suicide. Maybe even literal suicide.
I will actively vote against any such action plan, even if it has Hazou pursuing Necromancy Seals within that same plan.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In this context, 'microlife' refers to very small but still visible to the naked eye things. Worms that tunnel into human flesh, tiny acid-spitting beetles, etc.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What is the math of him only getting .5 XP? Even with two minors, his effective Resolve is still in the 50s, no?
As I understand it, the TN is still just 20 + # of SC hours, Hazou would roll 62 - 8 on the roll and manage ~49 hours (with expected dice yadda yadda) for a 1.5 multiplier or so
Am I missing something?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
FWIW I don't think this alternate argument would have worked. He was already about to not believe us on the "Jashin doesn't want me to kill people" argument
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Them being bad people isn't what makes it okay. Their deaths are ultimately not counter to his Uplift goals and their deaths also please Jashin. The former matters because of his own convictions and avoidance of hypocrisy, the latter matters because Jashin is a true force and Hidan is an even truer one. One that even Asuma fears and one that Hazō is currently well situated to leverage.
No one deserves to die, not even these bandits. But that's not what it's about. It's about guiding the world into a future where even people like them wouldn't have to die. And it's about aligning Jashin with such a future, if at all possible.
If not, I vote for a full debrief, including character traits gleamed, deep lore, physical weaknesses, acts we had to commit and everything else. Though I'd also like to hear if anyone has specific things in mind that we shouldn't tell Asuma about.
@eaglejarl How many did he end up killing and was he at all selective about it?
We could have killed a third ourselves, which would have been less than 40%. But I don't think that this would have been good for Hazō's mental health or for his reputation and ability to continue preaching Uplift. Bad as it is, I think that instrumentally everyone in the village dying at someone else's hand is better than Hazō being the one to get his hands dirty here.
Good point. In fact, @RandomOTP could we also update Kei instead of only Mari? It might be a psychological burden for her, but it might also just help both her and Hazō and their relationship to each other. Kei is also in a prime position to analyze Hidan's words and attitudes and transfer the necessary parts to Shikamaru/Ami.
Which is why we don't recommend that Hazō sacrifices convicts to Jashin, we just suggest it as an option. Whether that gets spun into Hazō going down that route sincerely, or him becoming an executioner but lying about the Jashin dedication, or him being denied (or "denied") that role are all options that Asuma should decide on and Shikamaru should weigh in on.
Those are joke religions that don't undermine his authority infront of anyone that matters. And we have clearly presented Uplift as a compatible offshoot of Will-of-Fireism.
This could work in Mist maybe, but not in contemporary Leaf. That's just not how the Will of Fire religion is set up. The Will of Fire doesn't even allow reverence towards lesser Kami. At best it allows limited appeasement rituals based on Hagoromo instructions and scientifically tested incentives and cajoling. Otherwise the Will of Fire is an unquestionable philosophy with metaphysical weight and a collective effect on souls that only worships the Sage of Six Paths and those few who graced the blessed office of the Hokage.
So maybe we can convince Asuma that sacrificing people to Jashin when convenient might be to Leaf's benefit. But a temple and cult are both an obvious no go.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them