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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest

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I just think "being better against every faction but Xanatos" is a good enough reason to go for it.

Xanatos may have a angle but I trust him a lot more than some other factions.
 
If we are worried about Xanay not being our friend, we ought to offer him lessons about Evil. Because it is absolutely canon that Xanatos has a whimsical part thay wants to be like that.



David Xanatos: IT'S ALIVE, ALIVE! I've always wanted to say that.



Xanatos: Long time no see Goliath. I'm flattered you showed up just so I could use you as bait.
Coyote: This trough is filled with acid. In ten minutes, it's going to do a rather nasty job on that soil carving, not to mention your rugged good looks.
Xanatos: It's my first real stab at clichéd villainy. How am I doing?
 
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I'll admit, the most compelling argument for me is that doing it with Mirage means we're actually spending time with her, as opposed to Xanatos. She seems a lot more likely to be an actual friend than him.
 
ThatGuyWithIdeas said:
Take the deal. It is a step in the direction of being more effective than we currently are, a continuation of aspiring to be better than LOVEMUFFIN's style of villainy. Refusing isn't getting us anything and Xanatos will get back to Tier 3 infiltration anyway (it may look hard on paper, but this is Xanatos, he very much can claw his back to Tier 3 infiltration even if we luck and out and somehow catch moles of his in house cleaning), it will leave us stuck in our currently self-destructive ways. We need to strive on towards being a smarter and more effective villain. And for that, accepting the deal is the better decision.
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Not trusting Xanatos is not the same as staying stuck in our self destructive ways.
 
Murazor said:
If we are worried about Xanay not being our friend, we ought to offer him lessons about Evil. Because it is absolutely canon that Xanatos has a whimsical part thay wants to be like that.

David Xanatos: IT'S ALIVE, ALIVE! I've always wanted to say that.

Xanatos: Long time no see Goliath. I'm flattered you showed up just so I could use you as bait.
Coyote: This trough is filled with acid. In ten minutes, it's going to do a rather nasty job on that soil carving, not to mention your rugged good looks.
Xanatos: It's my first real stab at clichéd villainy. How am I doing?
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Xanay likes occasionally putting on a mask of Saturday Morning Cartoon Villainy. It's useful for getting people to underestimate you.
 
[] Take Xanatos' Promotion

Going for the deal. Xanatos, the Xanatos Gambit guy, is willing to teach us a little of his ways in Intrigue, it's totally worth it. I know the arguments said about doing this means becoming his pawn and never getting out of his grip and him knowing all our secrets , but well, in my opinion, in the long run this Can help us a lot. If we are his "pawn" as long as we don't give him a reason to sell us out or become so important that he can't do it it's okay. And that doesn't mean we have to stay that way, as people said before he isn't invincible, with time and lot, LOT of effort we can get out of his shadow and stand on equal foot with him, or at least not in a disadvantageous position. Playing the long game guys, at least that's what I think we should try.

Edit: further discussion and analysis from Burnbright has convinced me to change my vote
 
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Pro:
-2 Intrigue
-He'd get back to level 3 infiltration anyway.
-He's not trustworthy, but he is sort of reliable in his goals. Given greater threats, he is unlikely to directly betray us.

Against:
-He gets real and thorough level 3 Infiltration now, instead of having to subvert our loyal councilors. So far he only talked with a careless Doof 3 times.
-He gets to shape Doof and Doof's intrigue in ways convenient to him.
-We let him have information others entrusted to us specifically, without them having any say in the matter. This could also end up causing people to trust us with less.
-Is this really a decision Doof should make on his own?
-He may not stab us in the back directly, but he would certainly take advantage of any information he gained from us. Say goodbye to information advantages.


If someone disagrees or thinks there is something missing, I'd be willing to add or modify points.
 
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nwish425 said:
Not trusting Xanatos is not the same as staying stuck in our self destructive ways.
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The only reason we confronted David is because we got Doof to acknowledge that his perception of things isn't the most accurate.

Also we don't have a single clue as to what's going on in Mr. 72 intrigues head.

Made in Heaven said:
You can't detect an ounce of insincerity in it.
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Made in Heaven said:
He seems either used to a machine shop environment or just very good at hiding his unfamiliarity.

You aren't sure.
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Made in Heaven said:
You look at Xanatos's face, and you can't tell what he's thinking at all.
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Made in Heaven said:
Every word Xanatos is saying makes sense. You can feel your wounded pride being assuaged in real time, and your arguments slip from your fingers. But it still feels wrong somehow.
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Made in Heaven said:
"I'd expect nothing less." Xanatos says warmly.

You believe him.

You do.
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Made in Heaven said:
Does he have an angle?

Tick, tick tick.

You don't know.
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Heinz can only guess what are truthful statements.
 
Captain Flint said:
That's rude.
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No offense taken, s'cool.

I'm just choosing to take a stance out of principle rather than pure mechanical pragmatism. To get rather (very) hyperbolic, one could also argue that the smart choice would be to downright hand over the reins of DEI to Xanatos, becoming a subsidiary to Xanatos Enterprises, and mixing our combined resources into an ultra mega powerhouse guided by his superior intellect. Join the winning team and all that, since he's not a world ender and knows what he's doing. Enjoy the autopilot into success.

Doesn't mean any of us would choose to do it.

To add a bit more logic into the mix, even if it means reactivating my noggin for a bit, I don't believe the mechanical gain of a few assured intrigue points are really worth this big of a compromise, specially if we ended up rolling a 1. Narratively, it's also a disservice to Mirage. Strategically, even the smallest drop to Xanatos' infiltration means he will have to spend time and resources to get it back into place, which he will have to choose instead of another more productive activity, and if our mole sweep actually lowers it further then it could become an actual annoyance to rebuild.

Also, speaking entirely in-character, I don't see why we need to bend the knee this hard over the argument that it's a sacrifice to save the world. Toffee and Doris are threats but it don't look insurmountable to the point of us calling quits, and Doom may be scary but it's ultimately a rather down to earth conflict. Who's this Bill everyone keeps talking about? The Science guy from TV with the catchy song?

Also also, I somewhat feel like choosing the help means doing a 180 on the previous vote to become aware of Xanatos during the dream therapy. I mean, I guess it earned us the chance to get this deal and the extra intrigue, but if we were going to end up as Xanatos' piece anyway, I would have preferred Doof to remain blissfully unaware so the whole thing had a comedic undertone rather than a sad one soaked in defeat.

Edit: one more thing. Speaking of the last point, I can't help but be impressed by Xanatos effectively no selling the vote and having Doof as good as eating from his hand the instant the vote started having an effect. As easy as breathing it was. Still, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
 
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Kingster said:
Going for the deal. Xanatos, the Xanatos Gambit guy, is willing to teach us a little of his ways in Intrigue, it's totally worth it. I know the arguments said about doing this means becoming his pawn and never getting out of his grip and him knowing all our secrets , but well, in my opinion, in the long run this Can help us a lot. If we are his "pawn" as long as we don't give him a reason to sell us out or become so important that he can't do it it's okay. And that doesn't mean we have to stay that way, as people said before he isn't invincible, with time and lot, LOT of effort we can get out of his shadow and stand on equal foot with him, or at least not in a disadvantageous position. Playing the long game guys, at least that's what I think we should try.
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Pretty much my opinion, yes.

Some "small discomfort" short-term for some *amazing* bonuses against anyone not David (against whom we´d be pretty much lost in terms of Intrigue anyway and whom we don´t really plan on deliberately oppose) long-term, with the possibility of worming our way into Daves heart with our Doof-ness.
 
TheGleeman said:
Pretty much my opinion, yes.

Some "small discomfort" short-term for some *amazing* bonuses against anyone not David (against whom we´d be pretty much lost in terms of Intrigue anyway and whom we don´t really plan on deliberately oppose) long-term, with the possibility of worming our way into Daves heart with our Doof-ness.
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What do you mean by amazing bonuses?
 
Tlax said:
Also also, I somewhat feel like choosing the help means doing a 180 on the previous vote to become aware of Xanatos during the dream therapy. I mean, I guess it earned us the chance to get this deal and the extra intrigue, but if we were going to end up as Xanatos' piece anyway, I would have preferred Doof to remain blissfully unaware so the whole thing had a comedic undertone rather than a sad one soaked in defeat.
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I think that's not the case? Like let me explain, with our previous dive in Door's mind, most of his skewed view of reality was kind of "fixed", I don't want to say that's the case, but he really did become more self aware of his position and of what's going on with most of his relationships I think. He knows now that David is interacting with Doof for selfish reasons and its not his friend at all.

With that deal he is offering, while Doof fully knows what Xanatos is getting out of it, and thats kind of bad for some things that we would want to keep for ourselves, he is willing to teach Doof a little more about some aspects of this "Game" that he entered without fully realizing the implications. People might think Xanatos is getting more out of this deal than Us if we accept, but thats short thinking for me at least, in the Long run, its us that will benefit more if Doof training and "progression" I wanna say, keeps going on good. We started kind of late, but in time Doof can truly become a King of Xanatos or Shego tier, At least thats what I think. Lets take the opportunities that appear for improvement, just be aware what we are giving up so it doesn't take us off guard.
 
I don't think that making such a huge decision without asking any of the people affected by it is really an expression of personal growth. More like the opposite.

If there was an option to consult the councilors and maybe affected people like Winston, I'd be for it. But I don't think most of them would be enthusiastic. Which in itself is a reason to say no, if a weak one without confirmation.

TheGleeman said:
About twice the Intrigue "margin" possible compared to Mirage.
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It's 3.5 vs 5.5
Closer to 50% than double
 
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Kingster said:
I think that's not the case? Like let me explain, with our previous dive in Door's mind, most of his skewed view of reality was kind of "fixed", I don't want to say that's the case, but he really did become more self aware of his position and of what's going on with most of his relationships I think. He knows now that David is interacting with Doof for selfish reasons and its not his friend at all.

With that deal he is offering, while Doof fully knows what Xanatos is getting out of it, and thats kind of bad for some things that we would want to keep for ourselves, he is willing to teach Doof a little more about some aspects of this "Game" that he entered without fully realizing the implications. People might think Xanatos is getting more out of this deal than Us if we accept, but thats short thinking for me at least, in the Long run, its us that will benefit more if Doof training and "progression" I wanna say, keeps going on good. We started kind of late, but in time Doof can truly become a King of Xanatos or Shego tier, At least thats what I think. Lets take the opportunities that appear for improvement, just be aware what we are giving up so it doesn't take us off guard.
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Our odds of outsmarting Xanatos, by taking a deal that gives him intimate knowledge of our internal structure and thoughts seems...Counter-intuitive.

bigking321 said:
He already has tier 3 infiltration of us.
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And, if we refuse the deal, he won't anymore.

Yeah, guys, I would like to keep a secret from Xanay ever again, and not be a pawn.
 
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