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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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[X] Plan: Maximum 2.83 = 2
[X] Plan Books and Runesmiths Do Not Mix

Voting anti-library, more than anything else here.
Dutch said:
It is also on the Rune of Enemy Detection, Alarm and Immolation. So its not a one-off thing.

But if I were to make a book? Written in a cryptic and vague way only an elder could manage. Then ciphered, ciphered again and ciphered a third time at minimum. The book is to be stored in a particularly designed part of the workshop that is heavily reinforced, sealed and runed with the Rune of Enemy Detection, Rune of Terror and Rune of Alarm.

The books themselves have a Gromril cover and lock. On the lock is a Rune of Locking keyed to a specific Rune of Opening than is only ever temporary inscribed on the key. Requiring a Runesmith to reactivate it every single time.

On the book itself the Rune of Immolation, set to activate if the book leaves the Runesmith's private library (except maybe with some exceptions), is touched by a anyone not a Dwarf, anyone not a Runesmith, anyone who triggers the accompanying Rule of Enemy Detection or if someone turns a page without completing a security check. The Rune of Enemy detection is keyed to anyone dressed or carrying markers of Chaos or Hashmut worship (or anyone not a Runesmith if you want to go that route).

For the security each page is adorned with a drawn rune at the bottom of the page, possibly also ciphered. If the reader tries to turn the page before naming the correct rune, the Rune of Immolation will activate. Destroying the book. Depending on the contents of the book, the runes drawn can be rarer.

On particularly sensitive stuff we can put a Master Rune of Misfortune. Which flat out irrevocably curses someone if they come into possession of the item if they weren't specified (by name, clan or profession) by the creator of the rune. Which causes them to fail otherwise successful actions up to three times per day.

And those are just my 6 in the morning thoughs.
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Bear in mind that security is inversely proportionate to accessibility; the harder we make it to access and understand, the harder it'll be to access and understand. Which... well, generally defeats the purpose of having a library to begin with.

Plus, you say 'we' can do these things, and you're probably right. Snorri has the ridiculous productivity needed to inscribe that many runes, and the resources needed to pay for them all. But... how many other Runesmiths and Runelords will be able to say the same? How many will either balk at the time investment, balk at the cost, balk at the flagrant flouting of the Rule of Pride, or just decide to go ahead with lesser protections?

I'm not against libraries at all, ever, but if the choice is none/minimal or extensive? I know where I'm voting.
 
I still think the library is over worried about Runelore. Snorri's library won't include them and so even if we're a step closer its actually kinda unlikely that others will go even further over that line.
Dutch said:
A Chaos Dwarf could also simply torture the information out of Gunnardson. He also has more info in his head than will be written down in any book.
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Didn't they already fail that aproach in Dum? All Runes there came from Hashut's knowledge and the Runesmiths where cleared by Gazul and the big conclave of any fault?
Dutch said:
The latter can already be done under these rules. Under the "anyone who tries to access this without XXXX conditions."
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How do you turn that into something that can be perceived and not faked?
 
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Dark as Silver said:
How do you turn that into something that can be perceived and not faked?
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Long run, you really can't. All fixed security systems are vulnerable to analysis and breakdown over time- especially if there's a way to remove what's being protected to a secure location, which there would be with books (overcome the proposed immolation rune, and you can take the book and do what you want with it).
 
Dark as Silver said:
I still think the library is over worried about Runelore. Snorri's library won't include them and so even if we're a step closer its actually kinda unlikely that others will go even further over that line.

Didn't they already fail that aproach in Dum? All Runes there came from Hashut's knowledge and the Runesmiths where cleared by Gazul and the big conclave of any fault?

How do you turn that into something that can be perceived and not faked?
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think it mentioned in dum that they did succeed in torturing a few rune smiths or apprentices?
 
Sir LagsAlot said:
Seems a lot simpler than the gronti considering we just need to do some research to finish it rather than collecting a T5 ingredient, wait dozens of turns to get enough adamant to make it and do a ton of research for it on top of that due to all the feature creep.

And is that supposed to be a vote?
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Haha, no. First we need to deal with our ridiculous AP backlog from this massive endeavor, then we need to guess and complete (granted we have a good idea as to it's general path) what research paths we need to take to get to that point. And then we need to hope that there is no special material needed to make a semi-autonomous copy of a dwarf mind.

And then after all that, we then have to need to convince others to actually use this new fangled newly developed technology. Something that deals with the realm of the mind.

And that isn't including the need to convince them to prove that this new fangled technology is secure enough to be worth putting in guild secrets, not to mention runesmith specific secrets.
 
We also need to finally compress our signature rune combos like Mountainsouled. Smh making biggest learning rune place and not even having that many master runes.
 
If you're against the no library plan on the grounds that the library doesn't have anything too important in it, that's fine. My vote for the plan wasn't out of extreme dislike for the library even if I'm a little leery about the Max level, it was to support a winning plan that didn't go too high on Maximum. If you're against it on the grounds that dwarven security is invulnerable, that's less okay. Runes are not full proof and can be tampered with through enough time or know how so security runes aren't 100% assurance. Physical defences and locking them away isn't fullproof, because when the greenskins and skaven come holds will fall, it's just a matter of how many, so any libraries will be compromised. And that's putting aside the fact that clan eshin is fully capable of infiltrating holds. And then there's the chaos dwarf infiltrators to boot.
 
Why is plan books and runesmiths don't mix going to a total of 1 + 1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.33 = 3.16? I thought we were specifically told that anything equal to or above 3 is the same as long as it's less than 4?

Cursix said:
My vote for the plan wasn't out of extreme dislike for the library even if I'm a little leery about the Max level, it was to support a winning plan that didn't go too high on Maximum.
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Is the yes some library plan at 4 maximum? cause otherwise they're both equivalent! (my rationale for library is that it's fine to have books about reagents, they save time but nothing actually critical is being written down)
 
[X] Plan: Durin's Dream

I just assume if we don't have runelore in our library people will understand the intent is useful reference material is fine and dandy.
 
astergremlin said:
Like the learning and communication thresholds? Those are mechanics no?

Like are people narratively opposed to the idea of say 1 maximum on procurement?
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Procurement, forges and business are the ones that lean towards "Organization runesmiths" the most.

The classes, forum and library are more "knowledge can be found here, for those that choose seek it"
 
astergremlin said:
Like the learning and communication thresholds? Those are mechanics no?

Like are people narratively opposed to the idea of say 1 maximum on procurement?
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Yes, those. It got over 30 and 15 with the fewest possible maximums since people are heavily opposed to going any higher than low threes.

Most people seem to favor spreading out our maximums rather than concentrating them after they finish classes as well as forums so more like people don't care rather than actively oppose maxing our procurement.
IronFist said:
Procurement, forges and business are the ones that lean towards "Organization runesmiths" the most.

The classes, forum and library are more "knowledge can be found here, for those that choose seek it"
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The plan he's talking about focuses on procurement, forges, and business after it finishes class as well as forums so I don't see your point.
 
astergremlin said:
Why is plan books and runesmiths don't mix going to a total of 1 + 1 + 0.5 + 0.33 + 0.33 = 3.16? I thought we were specifically told that anything equal to or above 3 is the same as long as it's less than 4?
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No, we were told that Maximums round down.
Narrative (rather than mechanics) probably work on a spectrum otherwise Snorri has only two states between no doubt and stressed to the point of suicide.
Additionally they don't like the changes some of those things make.
astergremlin said:
Like the learning and communication thresholds? Those are mechanics no?

Like are people narratively opposed to the idea of say 1 maximum on procurement?
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Yes, explicitly the plan avoids procurement because they don't like how it moves the Runesmiths to a more traditionally structured plan.
 
Dark as Silver said:
How do you turn that into something that can be perceived and not faked?
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Something based on the ancestor gods? A seal on the doors or the entire library that invokes Valaya to deny entry to anyone who is an enemy of the Karaz Ankor as long as it's fulcrum stands would be thematically appropriate and would even fit with the marvelous defenses vote we're going for.
 
Dark as Silver said:
No, we were told that Maximums round down.
Narrative (rather than mechanics) probably work on a spectrum otherwise Snorri has only two states between no doubt and stressed to the point of suicide.
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Yeah that's what I mean re: rounding down, 3 = 3.16 = 3.88.
Re: narrative working on a spectrum, that might or might not be true since in response to a question about why increased forging would increase the maximum since presumably everyone is on board with that, soulcake mentioned it's only in aggregate that it would which is why there are no consequences for <2 maximums.
I guess to be sure, @soulcake is there any distinction narratively on the reception of our endeavour if it's 3 vs 3.5 vs 3.8?

Dark as Silver said:
Yes, explicitly the plan avoids procurement because they don't like how it moves the Runesmiths to a more traditionally structured plan.
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Ah I see, thank you.
 
astergremlin said:
sorry there are so many plans, can someone tell me which ones I can approval vote for that have 3.88 max and forging 1/3, business 1/2, procurement 1/2, and 1 in two out of three of forum, classes and library and 1/2 in the remaining one?
(and ofc max all for build options)

I'm okay with forging 1/2, business 1/3 too at a pinch but prefer the former.
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By the way, I'm still v much overwhelmed by the number of plans that are going. Will there be a run-off at the end between the top two or something?

Thanks everyone for answering all the questions 😅
 
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