Yeah, but the Duplicatonator is just our last five Inators again. Give me something fresh. Also, lots of people have said they want Miragequest at some point. Well, some point is now or never. Just want to make that clear.
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DoofQuest- a Disney Villains Victorious CK2-Style Quest
- Thread starter Made in Heaven
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] The On-Ice-inator! Doofenshmirtz cryogenically freezes himself for two months as a proof of concept. Next turn, Mirage is in charge of DEI! King stats and National Actions will be changed to reflect this!
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
Here's a hypothetical framework of a set of actions to take next turn to take advantage of Duplicatonator-powered Super Crits
Martial: Supervillainy (DC 85)
Diplo: Either double Reach Out to Shere Khan and Glomgold (DC 70) or one Reach Out and one Recruit from Rolodex (DC ???, but generally fairly low)
Stewardship: Split/Second (DC 80) and Collab with Smarty Mart (DC 70)
Intrigue: Infiltrate Zootopia (DC 70)
Learning: Collab with Imagination Institute (DC ???)
Occult: Coven (DC 48)
Supervillainy, Split/Second, and Smarty Mart all give income, meaning with crits on all of them we'd likely be able to buy Hopper the turn after next. Smarty Mart also gives us temporary access to a very strong Stewardship Hero, and I imagine a crit there might put us on the path to recruiting him on a more permanent basis, like we've done with the Dickens. Critting on the Imagination Institute would be very nice, in both a "we might make progress on getting Russ back" and "the feds might be more positively inclined towards us" sort of way. And critting on creating the Coven could have some very nice effects on our Council, our future Occult actions, and Malifishmertz, if the Coven can act as a support network for him.
In short, I believe we have some very good ways to take advantage of a super crit turn from the Duplicatinator, and that's why I feel like it's the right choice here.
Martial: Supervillainy (DC 85)
Diplo: Either double Reach Out to Shere Khan and Glomgold (DC 70) or one Reach Out and one Recruit from Rolodex (DC ???, but generally fairly low)
Stewardship: Split/Second (DC 80) and Collab with Smarty Mart (DC 70)
Intrigue: Infiltrate Zootopia (DC 70)
Learning: Collab with Imagination Institute (DC ???)
Occult: Coven (DC 48)
Supervillainy, Split/Second, and Smarty Mart all give income, meaning with crits on all of them we'd likely be able to buy Hopper the turn after next. Smarty Mart also gives us temporary access to a very strong Stewardship Hero, and I imagine a crit there might put us on the path to recruiting him on a more permanent basis, like we've done with the Dickens. Critting on the Imagination Institute would be very nice, in both a "we might make progress on getting Russ back" and "the feds might be more positively inclined towards us" sort of way. And critting on creating the Coven could have some very nice effects on our Council, our future Occult actions, and Malifishmertz, if the Coven can act as a support network for him.
In short, I believe we have some very good ways to take advantage of a super crit turn from the Duplicatinator, and that's why I feel like it's the right choice here.
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- Location
- USA
Assuming we'll get a crit on such an action is a big ask.
We would what, be investigating the toonforce? That's going to be extremely difficult. Because what would be funny? Is if all of our research blows up in our faces. And that's a regular fail. Imagine a critical failure. And I really don't want to add more risk to the question of whether we would get Russ back or not, or whether we would repair our fed relations or not.
A Mirage turn gives us new perspective that we can use to capitalize on things that Doof would never even think about, stuff that we would be prevented from writing in ourselves.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
It is something fresh! I've heard it called a rerun but it's more like a massive season finale crossover special.
We get a different deviled-egg hero than last time, so that's new and fresh. Think how much different it would have been if Phineas and Ferb, or Monogram, or Janna got deviled-egged instead of Roddy - we get a whole new perspective on the classic villain model.
And we get a whole new Crit turn. That's a whole new slate of actions, dozens, to catastrophically fail or succeed beyond wildest expectations, all completely different than the ones the original Probabilitor-Inator hit. I can't see how that could possibly seem like a stale rerun, we and everybody else are working on new things now, our priorities are taking us in new and different places, and so even if the Inator's the same, the input and the output are both going to be completely unlike the last.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
I mean, I don't really think I'm assuming too much? Like, if we take Doof+Ludivine+Imagination Institute Hero Unit+EXP boost, we're hitting somewhere around +110-120. Unless the action we take with them is extraordinarily difficult, we've got good odds of passing the DC and thus getting a crit success.
And I don't remember if we ever actually narrowed down what we'd be researching with them, which is why I'm speculating about the results so much.
weredrago2
"Cowabunga, Shadow the Hedgehog..."
- Location
- Florida
You're exaggerating the novelty of something you just did. It's the same five inators you last rolled up, so you know exactly what to expect: RNG messing with your actions (as well as the actions of literally everyone else on this side of the Kuiper Belt), one of your hero units becoming unreliable/unstable, a sizable income loss, and a significant PR loss. The last three are non-negotiable, and like last time will happen regardless of how lucky you get with the other actions.
I'm only calling this argument out because I've seen a few arguments that "the same thing you did for the last five rounds" is more fresh and new than the alternative option that just opened. Vote what you will, but it doesn't really track.
- Location
- Washington
Okay, I'm trying to think of some downsides for taking the MirageQuest since I want to be fair in my judgement since I made a pro/con list for the Dup. Anyone got any ideas for it besides lower martial and learning stats?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean you're welcome to disagree with me, but none of what I said was untrue. It's still a very different outcome and a flipped look at a different character. There were plenty of TNG episodes powered by the holodeck or Q bullshit, but it's not like they were all dull copies of each other. Just because the framing device or inciting factor might be the same doesn't mean the outcome will be.
And I didn't say it would be more fresh and new, just that it wouldn't be a stale repeat. I certainly do think it will be more interesting and entertaining though, whichever you think is more 'fresh'.
b-wolf95
Secretly a good boy
Unable to reliable preplan because we're not sure of what actions we get.
For that matter, getting several actions lock off for a turn even if we really want to do them.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
And the Duplicatinator will never be able to replicate the Super-critinator ever again. At least we still get a chance at Miragequest, but Superturn 2 is never happening again.
- Location
- USA
There are plenty of actions that would also essentially get locked off if Duplicatinator wins no matter how badly we really need them to be done on that turn because people will end up limiting themselves to mostly voting on low DC actions.
You didn't count natural crits on that turn. Overall we had 7 crit success and 3 crit failures. You can say that those 4 crits would have happened even without inator, but it is only with Doof at the helm. With Mirage we are not getting those crits at least in both learning and probably not in stewardship too. Add the fact that we will be busy with placating feds in diplo which would not be easy, and we can forgot about crits in diplo too. As I see it, we would have something like 7 crit successes and 3 crit failures in Duplicatorinator case, and like 1 crit success and 1 crit failure in MirageQuest.
Most of this perspective consist of making deals with government by taking advantage of Doof incapacitation. Maybe if it was someone else taking over DEI I would have been more interested, but Mirage is basically very effective bureaucrat. Most interesting thing we can do with her is to rejoin government and then wait for inevitable fallout next turn, I don't really know what else we can do with her.
- Location
- USA
We also unlock the ability to better gauge how various groups actually perceive us. The public, each and every faction: feds, Xanatos, Shego, Olympia, Zaibatsu, etc, and more importantly, why, and then we can use that information to help guide our actions for the rest of the quest.
Doof's opinion tracker is a joke at best. Mirage's would be extremely useful and detailed.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We'll be a unit down, since I'm assuming Mirage won't be available for national actions and Doof is fully out of the picture. We'd also lose Doof's personal actions, and while Mirage's are probably pretty good as replacements, that's still no potions or tinkering with inators (or inators themselves even, most certainly) or using personals to get the much more important permanent stat boosts on Doof.
And Doof will forever be the crappy father that voluntarily froze himself and thus missed his only daughter going off to college...
- Location
- USA
Where are people getting this "Mirage = Government deals" thing from? It seems to be coming from nowhere.
This on the other hand is kind of compelling.
This on the other hand is kind of compelling.
- Location
- Washington
Decided to compare the stats of Doof and Mirage just for the heck of it to see what we'd be working with if Mirage temporarily becomes our King Unit to see what benefits we'd get, so here is what we'll have.
Martial: 21 vs. 5 (Major hit here, we won't be getting as nice a benefit to our Martial national rolls as we would have with Doof. Makes sense, but man will it be rough if we roll just shy of what we would have got if Doof were still in charge.
Diplomacy: 18 vs. 24 (Pretty sizeable difference here. Not super extreme, but even of a bonus that I can see it making or breaking a national Diplomacy roll by a slight margin.)
Stewardship: 24 vs. 23 (Only slight difference here, so no major changes. The fact that Doof has slightly better managerial skills than Mirage is... wow.)
Intrigue: 18 vs. 30 (HUGE boost here. I think we'd be getting more bang for our buck here with Mirage at the helm. Probably have an easier time getting our investigation done with less error. Probably best to give our attention here the most.)
Learning: 38 vs. 11 (Again, a big hit but only slightly better than the Martial. So I doubt any fancy research projects are gonna make much headway.)
Occult: 4 vs. 0 (Not to big of a deal, honestly. Only difference is we won't get a slight stat bonus to our Occult national roll.)
Martial: 21 vs. 5 (Major hit here, we won't be getting as nice a benefit to our Martial national rolls as we would have with Doof. Makes sense, but man will it be rough if we roll just shy of what we would have got if Doof were still in charge.
Diplomacy: 18 vs. 24 (Pretty sizeable difference here. Not super extreme, but even of a bonus that I can see it making or breaking a national Diplomacy roll by a slight margin.)
Stewardship: 24 vs. 23 (Only slight difference here, so no major changes. The fact that Doof has slightly better managerial skills than Mirage is... wow.)
Intrigue: 18 vs. 30 (HUGE boost here. I think we'd be getting more bang for our buck here with Mirage at the helm. Probably have an easier time getting our investigation done with less error. Probably best to give our attention here the most.)
Learning: 38 vs. 11 (Again, a big hit but only slightly better than the Martial. So I doubt any fancy research projects are gonna make much headway.)
Occult: 4 vs. 0 (Not to big of a deal, honestly. Only difference is we won't get a slight stat bonus to our Occult national roll.)
Do we have a solid list of what stuff we'd know for a fact will be locked off? Surely attack the Waddle guy is out, so is suing him, but what else? It will be nice to know just to be sure it'll be worth it to forgo them for a short time or not.
From my understanding, Mirage's stats will be used in the National rolls in place of Doof's.
It is a nice little boost, but nothing major. NOW HER INTRIGUE ON THE OTHER HAND!!! (see above)
Lifeandlice
Practitioning side-character
- Location
- Usa
About this. Honestly, how do we prevent this from going Red Text level bad as a blow up from Doof when he gets back?
I can't really see how that particular action doesn't end up biting something. Probably doesn't help that Doof recently went through a revelation of sorts that might make him mildly more competent and just as petty as before in whatever revenge he could plan.
- Location
- USA
Mirage would also help us out by lowering DCs for various actions as well, as she would know how best to actually get things done in a lot of areas, as opposed to Doof, even if he does have one more stewardship, for example.
We're received confirmation that it's false.
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weredrago2
"Cowabunga, Shadow the Hedgehog..."
- Location
- Florida
Nobody said this.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's quite likely one of our two intrigue actions is locked in to a nearly unreachable DC action, and Monogram who would be our third is either out of commission or also locked into a probably massively-boosted DC action. It's a bad turn for intrigue, we won't be able to use her high stat for nearly as much as we'd like. And her crap learning hurts way more than an Intrigue buff helps, we're learning heroes and even our locked-in Occult hero operates off our learning.
Lifeandlice
Practitioning side-character
- Location
- Usa
I'll be honest, a 12 point boost to Intrigue, when that's never really been our focus, doesn't feel all that important compared to the 16 point loss in Martial and 27 point loss in Learning. Kinda overselling a mediocre boost and underselling some big losses.
Is that first bit confirmed or just you supposing? If it's been confirmed I've missed it somewhere in this rather long inator back and forth.
Lab_Accident
A 2D 1D4
- Location
- Your dreams
What are these urgent actions that we need done by next turn?
A +12, not that big a deal, compared to the -16 Martial and -27 Learning.
This feels like complete and total speculation, to be honest. Otherwise, we could DCs to lower by assigning Mirage to them, and that's never been how it worked.
KidFromPallet
Pokemon Fan
- Location
- Pallet Town
Yeah, I only looked at the ones that specifically were effected by the Inator to get a better idea of what exactly it did. But you are definitely right that the effects of Doof's stats shouldn't be ignored.
Oof, I hadn't even thought of this, but it's a really good point. If we use the Haste Potion, it's possible for Doof to fit that in alongside Personal Attention and Tinker, but if Doof's frozen...
Yeah, I think with just this alone I'd rather take the multi-Inator hit than miss Vanessa going off to college.
Edit: Alright, it seems like Doof won't be missing Vanessa going of to college even if he's freezing himself for the turn, which is nice.
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- Location
- USA
That's because Doof is the one assigning things, instructing what people do and how they do things. Doof is in control of DEI, despite him not really being the best person to actually run the business itself.
Mirage is.