We need chakra for this, unless you want the team dry in a potential combat situation.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
@eaglejarl @Velorien Did everyone recharge enough in the night to refill Noburi? If not, how much chakra has everyone got?
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Well, strictly speaking it's 'gofer', made by smooshing the words 'go for' together, and it has more to do with being sent to fetch and deliver things than it has to do with being demeaning, though the latter element is still present.
- Location
- Liverpool
I start off quite liking this plan, but less so over time. If we come off a too hostel, a group may just decide to kill us and Ally with an enemy of ours and be done with it. I know it's a good Ninja/bad Ninja thing, but I think that hard approach here might be slightly too far. Maybe a more subtle "if leaf weren't so dedicated to being fair/if Keiko wasn't willing to intercede of their behalf, contingent on her continued support of Isan, that would have been the start of a war... Sorry, annihilation."
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think that this needs to be Takahashi's show, first and foremost. For a dozen reasons, Keiko's continued political involvement in Isan is not the optimal outcome. We need to sell him as a leader. I think that presenting him as someone who can stare down the demons and/or who can have a good working relationship with the largest military body in the world (depending on what your bumpkin score is) does that, and it requires that we make threats and demands and generally provide him with something to push back against.
I think that you're probably right that I'm coming on a bit strong - I'll re-write that, but I don't think that presenting this as Keiko's intercession sets Takahashi up for success.
E: re-wrote my plan.
Last edited:
[X] Action Plan: Lose In Order To Win
Word Count: 287
Prep:
Any thoughts, folks?
Word Count: 287
Prep:
- Have scrolls and books that can improve upon the specializations and institutions of Isan's clans. (Get Asuma's approval)
- Communicate with Takahashi (Use discrete runners).
- Ask about clan, police, and merchant reception to Azai's fall and the Isan team
- Get Takahashi's input on plan (below)
- Premise: Takahashi calls for a town meeting to discuss the death of the Pangolin Summoner, who should receive the Scroll, etc.
- Get Takahashi's input on plan (below)
- The team arrives at this meeting dramatically.
- Keiko decides if she summons Pangolins for intimidation or not.
- Demand justice and Isan's debt for the assassination attempt.
- Keiko can verbally spar or quibble with Inoue.
- Have Takahashi intervene between Inoue and Keiko as a neutral party and mediator.
- Calibrate with Mari's whisper jutsu.
- Takahashi must appear as a pragmatic protector and unifier of Isan: the best option by process of elimination.
- Have Takahashi convene with other clan heads to discuss Isan's next steps.
- Isan has been weakened and divided enough that factions have attempted blatant assassinations.
- Their familiarity with the Goketsu is a source of precious leverage to have over a major village and should be exploited.
- Takahashi also has Leaf on a loose leash (Keiko's wizened sensei), but one he'll use carefully.
- Use materials from the Prep section above primarily to neutralize (bribe) anti-Leaf and neutral Isan factions into following him. (Ex: Aida improve village security, Gasai get Taijutsu buffs, etc)
- Secure limits on Pangolin Summoner influence in Isan.
- Stress Isan must be stabilized.
- Takahashi will present the clans terms. The team should grudgingly accept unless too unreasonable.
- Lean on pro-leaf allies as appropriate.
- Guage Isan disposition to Leaf team
- Use hidden in the mist and skywalkers if immediate exfil is needed.
Any thoughts, folks?
Last edited:
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm going to hold off on voting for a bit, but I have some commentary/feedback. I think that a lot of this is very good.
That we're alive might already be information available to everyone - most everyone knows what the Isan Team looks like (Mari stands out in a crowd, at any rate) and we weren't unseen.
I think that having the Summoner clan call a meeting to talk about Summoning - who gets the Scroll, specifically - is a very good idea.
I do have concerns that our surviving this is going to push the 'they're demons' faction further into their delusion. I don't have a good way around this - someone else might.
Having Takahashi drop that he knew we were warned and that we're being weasel-y by exploiting the attack is inspired. I think that the plan could benefit from a little more emphasis that Takahashi has sway over Leaf/Keiko, to hammer home that he's the best man for the job; right now, I feel like he could wind up being just one more clan leader at the meeting, not necessarily running things.
Takahashi making the point that Isan is weak and divided seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure he should say that in front of us. Making it clear that Takahashi will not assent to a dysfunctional alliance is a good show of strength, though.
The comment about bringing in allies confuses me - fleshing it out a bit might be a good idea.
I don't think we need to specify this beyond 'arrange for a clandestine meeting with Takahashi'. They're ninja, and they're good at their jobs.
That we're alive might already be information available to everyone - most everyone knows what the Isan Team looks like (Mari stands out in a crowd, at any rate) and we weren't unseen.
From a look-and-feel perspective, I would break 'arrive at the meeting dramatically' out from under the bullet point of brainstorming. A single line to the tune of 'share the plan (below) with Takahashi, incorporate his feedback' seems like it would be adequate.
I think that having the Summoner clan call a meeting to talk about Summoning - who gets the Scroll, specifically - is a very good idea.
This isn't the approach I favour - I think we should come down on them very hard - but a unilateral declaration of 'you owe us' feels like it does a good job of framing the conversation, as does their arguing with Inoue, specifically. Nobody should have any doubt that the two sides here are Leaf and Inoue, and this accomplishes that well.
There's an awful lot to like, here. Takahashi the moderate will appeal to a lot of people - folks that like us as well as folks who are on the fence. I imagine that our survival is going to result in a lot of people questioning their decisions.
I do have concerns that our surviving this is going to push the 'they're demons' faction further into their delusion. I don't have a good way around this - someone else might.
Having Takahashi drop that he knew we were warned and that we're being weasel-y by exploiting the attack is inspired. I think that the plan could benefit from a little more emphasis that Takahashi has sway over Leaf/Keiko, to hammer home that he's the best man for the job; right now, I feel like he could wind up being just one more clan leader at the meeting, not necessarily running things.
Takahashi making the point that Isan is weak and divided seems like a good idea, but I'm not sure he should say that in front of us. Making it clear that Takahashi will not assent to a dysfunctional alliance is a good show of strength, though.
The comment about bringing in allies confuses me - fleshing it out a bit might be a good idea.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Depends on how many loyal ninja Takahashi can command. He has more than just his clan, but an entire faction of "anti-Azai" ninja following him. Not to mention he could also lean on the Cursed Children demographic that we've subverted into being pro-Keiko/pro-Leaf. We don't need the secret to remain that way forever, just for a few hours until the meeting.
Assuming 150 CP average for a genin we need 10ish ninja to refill Noburi after Keiko summons her tessura. Doesn't make sense to do it as a trickle b/c summons cost extra every hour they stay in the human path.
- Location
- The Soviet Republic of Canuckistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
More to the point, shock and awe have diminishing returns. Keiko backed by two Pangolins is not twice as impressive as Keiko backed by one, IMO.
We only need all of them if we imagine that things are going to kick off in a big way, such that a dozen Pangolins will be useful in keeping us alive. If someone starts shit, that simply isn't going to be the case. Either they'll be utterly overwhelming or easily managed, depending on popular opinion.
Yeah, I imagine this. Wtf you think Inoue/Aida are going to do when faced with utter defeat and irrelevance? There's a good chance they're going to go "third time's the charm" and try to kill us yet again.
Thanks for the feedback. Implemented most of the changes you suggested. Wasn't quite sure what I should do with some of the pro-leaf clans beyond having Takahashi leaning on them if need be. Besides, that, I figure we could bribe the clans with exchanges that would strengthen them.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What meeting is this?
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Well, you know *gestures vaguely* the meeting. :3
Some concrit for the plans. Obligatory: I am biased and have my own plan in the running etc, so I understand you may want to disregard my points even though I am doing my best to critique them as if I hadn't.
@Shrooms
I'd recommend adding a contingency if you cannot coordinate with Takahashi before the public confrontation takes place. I have Mari take over most of his role and/or cue him with her Whispers jutsu if needed, but I'd suggest you add something to not get caught flatfooted.
Juuuuuust in case.
And finally: I'd remove the bit about having Takahashi ask about the scroll. Some of the clan leaders probably know that summoning scrolls are indestructable so the fact that it wasn't in the rubble is a good indicator that we didn't actually die. It's even surprising they still think - or pretend to, anyway - that we did without having our corpses found, but mentioning the scroll will just rub it in their faces and put them on their defensive when we want them to be incautious and incriminate themselves.
@FaintlySorcerous
Your plan starts off with the team being very aggressive/hostile which is already concerning to me because if the intimidation fails, we'd put our team at risk of fighting and/or civil war breaking out. It doesn't matter whether Leaf would punish Isan afterwards because we cannot resurrect our people yet. People, mobs especially, can be really, really stupid and shortsighted.
Then there is also an argument to be made that if Isan becomes hostile and attacks us (even with us all of us surviving and fleeing) they have but no choice to ally with a village hostile to Leaf for their own protection.
So basically, too risky for too little gain because:
You also have Takahashi being extremely confrontational and shutting down Keiko. And since we are scripted to lose it makes us look toothless and weak. Why wouldn't the Inoue or Aida continue to push against us now that it is apparent that Takahashi can control us? Or worse, those that were still on the face like the Kannagi and Yoshida? We can't afford to look weak, IMO. Merciful in victory? Sure. Even willing to compromise but not weak.
And I do get what you are trying to do here with bad cop/good cop but it's more like bad cop (Takahashi) and incompetent cop (Keiko).
A contingency about what to do when coordinating with Takahashi isn't possible is also missing (see my advice to Shrooms above).
And finally, the accusations of the Inoue clan/Loremasters could be made more explicit. There is a lot of stuff regarding the High Priest and the honor guard but nothing that explicitly accuses the Inoue about making shit up to delegitimize the Summoner (which is especially awkward because Takahashi does it to us), only implicitly.
@Orisha91
I don't understand what you mean with "Inoue exploited the Leaf team's deaths but so did Keiko"? Where exactly are we exploiting an assassination attempt on us? At worst, we didn't reveal ourselves immediately - which is understandable since we are just being cautious. The Inoue potentially incriminating themselves is something they are doing on their own or at Takahashi's prodding (who is not meant to be seen as working with us).
The last part also comes up with "(Takahashi) knows the leaf team was forewarned". How does he know that? We didn't tell him because we, ostensibly, never met with him to tell him that.
You are also making the team look pretty bad, explicitly pointing out our blunders. I wrote my concerns regarding that in FaintlySorcerours' section so I shan't repeat them here.
Adding a contingency about what to do if you can't coordinate with Takahashi would also go well here (see Shroom's section above).
@Tua
Everything in your plan is amazing and people should vote for it.
PS: You are very handsome.
(Seriously though, I'd be happy to receive some concrit of my own if people are willing.)
Last edited:
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
I am giving it weak odds of that actually being the case. The attack didn't look well planned or they'd have made a better excuse for the attack (We attacked them? Really? Why send 30+ ninja now, what's the threat?) and Inoue's actions reek of desperation rather than cunning.*
Still, why make it easier on them?
*All of which my plan makes a point to bring up to catch them in the contradiction, get them flustered and susceptible to our other avenues of attack.
Hint, hint.
Takahashi is framing the attack as one that was sloppy and well known in advance. The Leaf team. That they didn't contact allies or reveal themselves earlier is more than caution. It's another attempt to throw the balance of Isan's leadership off balance...again.
That's the point. He is implying the attack was known among many who did not participate in it.
As for making the team look bad, Takahashi does this in private among the other clan heads, but uses them as point of leverage that the other Isan leaders should exploit. I'm sure worse has been said about us among our allies, so as to appear strong to the others or put on airs. The goal is to wrangle about nearly a 3rd or possibly half the clans who are neutral or former Azai associates. Gaining their support is possible only if we appear as an untamed Tapir Isan can leash if done carefully. It's not going to be pretty trying to appeal to them, but needs must.
I'll definitely take your advice about having Mari calibrate with that wind jutsu though. Thanks for the feedback.
I would say for your plan, tone down on the religious rhetoric or using Ui. The team has increasingly shown reluctance to further lean on the religious power they have. I would say
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Right, if it were in private then it's less bad but going by how the plan was structured it looks like some of it will be said in public. I am also concerned that there will be a public confrontation whether we want it or not so it might not come to the private backdoor meeting.
Not that I think the public discussion is a bad thing in itself. It's where we have the advantage due to the "normal" Isanese being awed by Pangolin like Pantomaimu. The clan heads on the other hand could/would go against public sentiment or their established religion if they thought they could get away with it.
Which is exactly what they did by sending the assassins.
If we can win the crowd, formalize the alliance and remove the problematic clan heads we win.
Could you elaborate on that? The only concrete musing about Ui/religion I remember was during the council of Mari where they wonder if it would work. Followed by this bit which indicates that she thinks it will work:
And since we saw the aftermath of the chapter, we know it worked and not even the Inoue could gainsay us. Why would they be more reluctant to use something that worked before, especially when - and this is a guess but IMO an educated one - the Inoue are so desperate that they'd only gainsay us now after they think we are dead? If they'd had the confidence to oppose us in the matter of religion they would have done so with us still alive. Or at the time we murdered their leader in front of everyone.
E: Not that we are going that far and claiming Ui is possessing us. We are only confirming what Azai himself said: Ui is still around (unless religion is a thing in MfD, this is clearly a lie but a lie the Isanese were using themselves) and that Keiko is the most direct link to him through the Pangolin (not a lie).
So as far as I am concerned this an even milder claim than the one we already know worked.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I honestly think this works even better. Inoue made the announcement, so everyone would be assuming she's the one who verified it. Inoue declares us dead as divine judgement, Takahashi calls a meeting and asks what to do with the scroll, and then Inoue either has to be like "uh so I was wrong" or lie more, only for us to show up right after.
It's more that we, the Leaf team, we're able to pull a win over the high priest using Pantomaimu and sheer momentum+ Mari bullshit.
We don't actually know how well received killing Azai went down now that the village has had time to digest what occured. I'll grant to you that a minority chose to kill us and Inoue took advantage of that. But we really don't know how much sympathy or authority we have over the majority or if people are just too intimidated to contradict us to our face and were actually quite disturbed by the murder of Azai and are fearful of us.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
I don't see that as too much of an issue as long as it doesn't boil over into hate. Them fearing us a bit is a good thing since it will bolster Takahashi's position by being able to negotiate down some of our demands.
Plus, Keiko has their interests at heart and makes it explicit in my plan to soothe any concerns there and transform fear into respect and adoration. Because let's face it, ninja role models are nothing if not intimidating to their enemies and since Keiko wants them to be allies, they won't be enemies if they join us.
Except for those few who would yet try to start some shit. Those should keep fearing us and remember what happens to our enemies.
Last edited: