Better idea. Make it known that we are the questing clan. Put in a request and if it's accepted be assured that they will do it. Heck even if we only let our already allies know we could still get a lot done to improve the absolute STATE of things.
 
some thoughts on religious radicalizing. our actions might produce conflict and hardship, and anecdotal stories makes me think religion devoutness grows in conflict and hardship.
 
We should also check in with the Minami. That will tell us exactly what not to do.

-because, whatever the younger generations feel, their leadership has already surprise-screwed us by backing the Hyuuga before and this will be a move Hinata will have prepared for. Probing them under the guise of action against the Hyuuga will make Hinata move pieces out of position and tell us in what direction so we can flank her.


I don't see any disproportionate harm being done, perhaps we have different standards of the two words.

Hags: "You used false pretenses to trick us into sanctioning the sacrilege of a holy ceremony. We want an apology before we trust your word again."​
Hazou: "I have upgraded all of your properties into glow-in-the-dark parking lots. You're welcome."​

...I'm okay with this.
 
This is kind of an abrupt departure from where we were a couple plans ago when we decided maybe we shouldn't try to topple a whole clan, but I just want to make sure that we're all keeping in mind that this isn't necessarily a war where it's complete domination or else. Keiko put it very well when she said the Hokage would be prefer a distinct lack of annihilation.

Our goals are, in order, make sure they officially and traditionally wed Yuno and Noburi, and all the rest of the Goketsu by association; have them recant their beliefs about gay marriage a la Keiko; and reduce their political power so we don't have to deal with this in the future.

I just want to make sure we're keeping this in mind before the destruction train snowballs out of control. We don't want to ruin their associated business owners' lives.

I haven't directly seen this suggested yet, but for once we have clear priorities, and given how quickly (in IC time) we change tack I'd rather say this too soon as opposed to too late.
 
This is kind of an abrupt departure from where we were a couple plans ago when we decided maybe we shouldn't try to topple a whole clan, but I just want to make sure that we're all keeping in mind that this isn't necessarily a war where it's complete domination or else. Keiko put it very well when she said the Hokage would be prefer a distinct lack of annihilation.

Our goals are, in order, make sure they officially and traditionally wed Yuno and Noburi, and all the rest of the Goketsu by association; have them recant their beliefs about gay marriage a la Keiko; and reduce their political power so we don't have to deal with this in the future.

I just want to make sure we're keeping this in mind before the destruction train snowballs out of control. We don't want to ruin their associated business owners' lives.

I haven't directly seen this suggested yet, but for once we have clear priorities, and given how quickly (in IC time) we change tack I'd rather say this too soon as opposed to too late.

I'm okay with that, yeah. Not seeking to bury them, but make them dependent upon the Goketsu or the Nara. We're cutting their revenue streams so that they'll be reliant upon the Goketsu.
 
The priority of a three bullet rifle with the bullets named Social, Financial, and Physical has been stated.
 
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This is kind of an abrupt departure from where we were a couple plans ago when we decided maybe we shouldn't try to topple a whole clan, but I just want to make sure that we're all keeping in mind that this isn't necessarily a war where it's complete domination or else. Keiko put it very well when she said the Hokage would be prefer a distinct lack of annihilation.

Our goals are, in order, make sure they officially and traditionally wed Yuno and Noburi, and all the rest of the Goketsu by association; have them recant their beliefs about gay marriage a la Keiko; and reduce their political power so we don't have to deal with this in the future.

I just want to make sure we're keeping this in mind before the destruction train snowballs out of control. We don't want to ruin their associated business owners' lives.

I haven't directly seen this suggested yet, but for once we have clear priorities, and given how quickly (in IC time) we change tack I'd rather say this too soon as opposed to too late.

Y'know what fancy paper with fancy words in fancy writing on it does really, really well?

Burn.
 
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sayin' look what you've done, you designed it
when the bough breaks, hear the wraith scream RIOT

Yeah, some folks inherit star spangled eyes​
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord​
And when you ask 'em, "How much should we give?"​
Ooh, they only answer "More, more, more!"​
There must be some kind of way outta here​
Said the joker to the thief​
There's too much confusion​
I can't get no relief​
Business men, they drink my wine​
Plowmen dig my earth​
None will level on the line​
Nobody offered his word​
Hey, hey​
No reason to get excited​
The thief, he kindly spoke​
There are many here among us​
Who feel that life is but a joke​
But, uh, but you and I, we've been through that​
And this is not our fate​
So let us stop talkin' falsely now​
The hour's getting late, hey​
Hey​
All along the watchtower​
Princes kept the view​
While all the women came and went​
Barefoot servants, too​
Well, uh, outside in the cold distance​
A wildcat did growl​
Two riders were approaching​
And the wind began to howl, hey​


God, I'm old. Some of us tried. We really did. We're sorry that we failed to make right. Now it's your turn. They don't have to be our fault to be our problems.
 
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[x] Action Plan: Kagome's Forbidden Lore
[x] Action Plan: Recall Hazou's birthday

[x] Action Plan: A simple skeleton plan
Coordinate Hago stuff with Nara
Don't stop hago payments from election deal unless Nara/Mari say worth the reputation costs.
Focus on turning Hago civies instead of financially ruining them. Can we bribe them to stop doing business with Hago ninja? Can we adopt them?
Potential idea? Tell Hago ninja we are willing to work with them against the bigoted Hago ninja.
 
Asuma: "Hazou, the ANBU agents I've had tailing you since the whole treason thing have reported you personally meeting with a domestic criminal organization. Exactly how many ways are you planning to piss me off this year?"
 
I understand the indignation of people here, but I'm in favor of offering Hags some kind of "apology" they can accept. Something along the lines of "we are sorry that you felt inconvinienced, we all know that doing the right thing can sometimes be hard". That makes it easier for them to submit to Goketsu and not accepting it can be framed as being unreasonable.
 
I understand the indignation of people here, but I'm in favor of offering Hags some kind of "apology" they can accept. Something along the lines of "we are sorry that you felt inconvinienced, we all know that doing the right thing can sometimes be hard". That makes it easier for them to submit to Goketsu and not accepting it can be framed as being unreasonable.
I don't really think that helps them at all. It sounds like we're mocking them (which is kind of the point, and also they deserve it) but that doesn't mean they would be any more willing to concede after that than anything else we do to them
 
I understand the indignation of people here, but I'm in favor of offering Hags some kind of "apology" they can accept. Something along the lines of "we are sorry that you felt inconvinienced, we all know that doing the right thing can sometimes be hard". That makes it easier for them to submit to Goketsu and not accepting it can be framed as being unreasonable.
I think I understand what you're saying. Instead of cornering them, which might make them go wild or commit an act of desperate stupidity, you're saying that we should funnel them along what lines we want, so that we can get what we want while the Hagoromo can keep their pride. But they wouldn't be able to keep their pride as a staunchly (radically) traditionalist clan that is also the religious pillar of Leaf. It's also worth pointing out that, should the Hagoromo back out now, they won't be able to retain their self-concept as "the last remaining bastion of the True Way." So I think that we can safely say that the Hagoromo won't apologize, because to do that is to lose the identity that they've chosen for themselves.

Besides, In all honesty, we've already made a list of terms (recant your statements: agree to officiate Goketsu marriages, just like they've agreed to do all of the Leaf's marriages, and they recant their statement about nonheterosexual lifestyles being detrimental to the Will of Fire). The Hagoromo put their hand into the fire, all they have to do to stop their hand from burning is to take it out of the flame.

Personally, (as a member of the MfD hivemind, a voter, and as a simple reader of the story) I don't give a flying fuck about the Hagoromo's pride. They've harmed Keiko, Hazou's sister in heart, name, and law. They've harmed Shikamaru, Hazou's brother-in-law, peer, and friend. They've even harmed Mari --Hazou's mother, Hazou's older sister, Hazou's mentor and wise authoritative figure --by their declaration. Not to mention the innumerable denizens of the Leaf, who have the gall to be born as "nontraditional" (in open or in secret), who were just told that by their religious leaders that they, personally, are a slow poison that will cripple and kill their motherland, their country of birth, and their home.

Then, there's the fact that these arrogant idiots just called attention to their monopoly on Leaf's religious community, and announced in an open letter that they're willing to use said unity to shape Leaf to their bigoted whims, regardless of what anyone else might say. How long before the Leaf becomes like Mist? Loud, extreme declarations of (religious) fidelity and open displays of zealotry, just in case a (Hagoromo) agent might be watching? How long until the worry of "Am I traditional/obvious/devout enough" leads to radicalization of a huge chunk of Leaf, sowing yet more discord? The Hagoromo have cut of their nose to spite their face, and then demanded that all of Leaf do the same.

We're leaving their clan alive and only harmed in the political and financial senses. We've all pretty much precommitted to setting up safety nets for the innocent civilians whose only "sin" was to be affiliated with the a particularly stupid clan. Sure, we'll need to be careful about how we do this, and we'll probably need to prepare for reprisals against Haru and Akane's respective families, but this? This is us being merciful. The Hagoromo know the terms, and we're doing our best to make this a bloodless endeavor.

Edit: were the Hagoromo pushed into this by the Hyuuga? Probably. Should we have tea with Hinata to see what this is all about? Yes. But even if Hinata tried to call the Hagormo off, they're determined to be stupid at this point, and would likely charge ahead anyway.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by eaglejarl on Sep 26, 2020 at 4:10 PM, finished with 98 posts and 9 votes.

Voting is closed.
 
Besides, In all honesty, we've already made a list of terms (recant your statements: agree to officiate Goketsu marriages, just like they've agreed to do all of the Leaf's marriages, and they recant their statement about nonheterosexual lifestyles being detrimental to the Will of Fire). The Hagoromo put their hand into the fire, all they have to do to stop their hand from burning is to take it out of the flame.
Strictly speaking, I don't think you ever delivered this list of terms to the Hagoromo.
 
but if we need to set up a meeting after the fact to point it out
I would be amazed if the Hagoromo are genuinely that dumb to think that their misfortunes aren't directly caused by their acti---

Actually, you know what, you're right. Once the Hagoromo turn into functional wage slaves we can give them a letter expressing our...displeasure, at the current state of affairs.
 
I would be amazed if the Hagoromo are genuinely that dumb to think that their misfortunes aren't directly caused by their acti---

Actually, you know what, you're right. Once the Hagoromo turn into functional wage slaves we can give them a letter expressing our...displeasure, at the current state of affairs.
And we could coordinate with Mari and Keiko so that the letter reaches maximum levels of "courtly manners" and "restrained murderous intent."
 
"No, she's not!" Hazō said, taking care not to move his jaw too much lest he slice his own throat open. "We're being honest, real I just meant that no one lives forever. Wouldn't you like it if kids were studying your theories a hundred years from now? You could be on the shelf next to Nishimura and Kita...but not if you don't pass on your knowledge."

The eyes got very slightly calmer and the knife pressed a little less tightly.

"Nishimura and Kita, huh?" the man murmured. "Hm. 'Pay attention, class: now that you've finished Kita, we'll be moving on to Kagome.'" The knife loosened a bit more and the man mumbled to himself for half a minute. "Yeah. Yeah. 'Hamasaki-sensei, may I please be allowed to check out Kagome, volume VII?' 'No! That's much too advanced for you, brat!' Yeah...." The knife fell away completely—less because Kagome (if that was his name) was taking it away and more because he was lost in his thoughts and not paying attention to keeping the knife in place.

Rereading some of the earlier chapters because reasons. Anyway, We should bring this up to Kagome, and ask him if he wants to publish some of his knowledge. Hazou could write as Kagome dictates, or Kagome could write it flat out. I know Kagome's passionate about education, and was really sinking his teeth into GED before he had to devote his entire day to decrypting Jiraiya's notes, but this was still his dream at one point. Even if Kagome's found a different passion, or is no longer satisfied by that dream anymore, we should at least bring it up.

Worst case scenario, we get some touching bonding time between our insightful, loving uncle/mentor and Hazou. (I admit this is mostly because I'm an absolute sucker for heartfelt character moments and touching scenes. As in, I've read the "A Selfish Happiness" chapter no less than four times already.)
 
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