Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
For the sake of everyone being on the same page as Mami and Kyouko here, here's the relevant parts of the TDS summary from the PMMM wiki:
Shortly after Kyouko's dad does the murder suicide:
Kyouko tries to hunt a witch, and almost dies due to lack of illusion magic:
Kyouko brings up no longer hunting familiars.
They fight.
Shortly after Kyouko's dad does the murder suicide:
Article: The scene cuts to Kyoko and Kyubey together as he asks if she's going to fight any witches today. He states that she hasn't purified her soul gem in quite awhile and that she has to get a grief seed soon or else she won't be able to fight anymore. Kyoko states she doesn't need the power anymore. She believes she was a fool to believe in miracles as hers destroyed her family. She states that if her power can't help her protect what's important to her, then what good is to having it anymore. Kyoko thinks about what her dad said to her and wonders if he was right to see magical girls and witches as the same thing. Kyoko then asks Kyubey if she were to stop hunting witches if she would just die like everyone else. Kyubey doesn't answer her, and Kyoko states that she was kidding as he already knows that.
Kyouko tries to hunt a witch, and almost dies due to lack of illusion magic:
Article: Mami happens upon finding the witch's barrier gone and finds Kyoko down in the snow. She quickly runs to her side and hugs her, telling her it's cold outside and that she's injured. As Mami heals her up, she tells Kyoko that she's so happy to see her as she hadn't see her in awhile, worried about what had happened to her. Kyoko tells Mami she's sorry and adds that she can't fight with her anymore. Mami apologizes and blames herself for not finding Kyoko earlier, and restates that she's just so happy that she's still alive. The chapter ends with Kyoko breaking down into tears, crying that it's all her fault that her family has died.
Article: Episode 4 begins from where the last episode left off with Mami offering ginger tea to warm Kyoko up after being out in the cold. Kyoko notes how Mami has even loaned her some of her clothes and says it must be putting her out. Mami answers that it's not a problem as it's already getting late and that she should stay over at her place for the time being. Mami then asks what she is thinking of doing now, and says that if it's ok, she'd like Kyoko to stay with her until things settle down for her. Kyoko turns her down, as she doesn't want to impose on her that much. Mami understands, but adds that she would like Kyoko to stop trying to do everything by herself, and that she can be her back up in battles too. She suggests that they do things together from now on, and offers to make dinner for tonight. As Mami leaves, Kyoko clutches her soul gem in her hand and (thinking) apologizes to Mami, as she's afraid she can't fight with her anymore after her ordeal.
Kyouko brings up no longer hunting familiars.
Article: Mami asks if something has happened to Kyoko, but she ignores her and goes on to state that while Mami may be trying to be a hero and "protect the peace", it's too much of a pain to play along with her hobbies, and that it just doesn't seem right to her anymore. Mami is upset and asks her what is she talking about, as regardless there's a witch or it's familiar attacking people, it's best to save them or they'll die.
Kyoko then snaps at Mami, saying that they can't possibly go saving everyone all the time. Mami is speechless, and Kyoko adds that whether people are possessed by a witch or not, the ones who want to die are going to, and asks Mami why she should have to risk her life saving jerks like that and says to let the familiars have them so they have some more grief seeds in the future. Mami understands that Kyoko is just upset about how she feels about her family, but that she still shouldn't say things like that. Kyoko snaps back saying that what would she understand, as she is a girl whose family died in an accident, which is in no way the same as a girl whose family died because of her. Kyoko states that Mami was right about one thing; that she really should've made the wish for herself instead, as the only one who would be hurt is herself, and that that way, she doesn't push her own selfish ideas of happiness on someone else. She adds on that she got her whole family caught up in her own misery, and that it serves her right as her magic started the whole mess in the first place. Kyoko then accuses Mami that somewhere down inside, she thought something like this was bound to happen, and Mami tearfully says she never thought of that at all. Kyoko states that she has made up her mind, and is not going to anything anymore for other people's happiness, or try to save anyone either. She will never use her magic for that reason, and instead use her magic to make herself happy. Kyoko then asks Mami if they're done being a team, as Mami might hate her now for what she has said. Kyoko turns to leave, but Mami grabs her by the wrist. Kyoko tells her to let go, but Mami cries as she says that she won't and that she doesn't care how tough it is for her right now, but she refuses to let Kyoko live her life like that, as trying too hard to act strong like that will make things tougher for her. Mami also says that she can't leave her alone like this, that she can't just walk away from Kyoko after all that. Kyoko sighs in frustration, and uses her magic to repel Mami away from her, saying that she's leaving even if she has to blast Mami away to do it. Mami is taken aback as Kyoko has transformed into her magical girl form and takes a fighting stance.
They fight.
Article: Mami asks her if this is truly what she wants and if she really thinks she can stand the loneliness. Kyoko doesn't answer and leaves without a word, leaving Mami alone. Mami cries to herself about her failure again, and asks why it always turns out this way as now she's back to being all alone again. The scene then switches to Kyoko, who is seen alone as well from the top of a building, looking down at her soul gem and thinking to herself that Mami can find a better friend than her.
- Location
- Here
[x] Wait. Let Mami handle it.
-[x] If things are seriously not working:
--[x] Out loud, to Mami:
---[x] Mami, if you don't know how to help someone, it's typically not because you aren't "good enough" -- it's almost always because you don't understand their trouble. You usually prefer not to push people to explain themselves to you, instead opting to let other people come and explain their issues to you on their own, but one of the awkward facts about life is that people are generally really bad at deciding to do exactly that. It always seems easier, less risky to just... not tell anybody what's actually wrong. To not volunteer the information you need to understand their problem. It can be hard to tell when, but sometimes, you absolutely have to just push.
-[x] If things are seriously not working:
--[x] Out loud, to Mami:
---[x] Mami, if you don't know how to help someone, it's typically not because you aren't "good enough" -- it's almost always because you don't understand their trouble. You usually prefer not to push people to explain themselves to you, instead opting to let other people come and explain their issues to you on their own, but one of the awkward facts about life is that people are generally really bad at deciding to do exactly that. It always seems easier, less risky to just... not tell anybody what's actually wrong. To not volunteer the information you need to understand their problem. It can be hard to tell when, but sometimes, you absolutely have to just push.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
OK no pressure... just Redshirt and best cat waiting to see what I propose... hahahah ahahaha (help)
.... OK I can't figure out a coherent vote really.. so ALL my thoughts plus an attempt!
I think the best way to explain my idea is by explaining how I think the broader behavior Kyouko has with pushing people away interacts with her relationship with Mami.
As Kaizuki said Kyouko viewed Mami as benchmark, a role model, one that she ultimately in the end feels like she betrayed along with her own ideals. So, she pushes Mami away because Mami should not be with someone like her. Kyouko pushes everyone away because she can't be happy – she says its because of the nature of the world but I think that may just be a rationalization.
The reason Mami and Kyouko reconciling is so important, I think is that if Mami Tome the role model still wants to be friends with her maybe, just maybe Kyouko will decide that her actions have not forced her to live without friends.
But Kyouko accepting Mami again runs into both Kyouko's personal history with her and with her impulse to push people away unless she can't rationalize it like our agreement with her to train Sayaka. It also runs afoul of Mami's fears about being alone, and losing friends.
If only we had a group on the sidelines that are friends of Kyouko and Mami. To provide Mami that buttress of morale, to remind her she isn't alone while showing to Kyouko that she's not some irredeemable monster, destined to be left alone.
Oh wait….
We're looking at this as trying to help Mami reconcile with Kyouko when really, we need to see it as a group of friends helping two of their friends make amends and move forward together along a new and better path.
Kyouko and Mami reconciling how Kyouko pushed Mami away is something that can only be done between Mami and Kyouko. But those actions were part, and are part of, a larger pattern of behavior that IS something that can and should be refuted by her friends.
In the end Sayaka, Sabrina, Homura and Mami don't hold how Kyouko left Mami against her or hold any sort of judgement on Kyouko over her wish's connection to the death of her family. But you can't just say that to her – she's just going to deny it all or say you are lying.
But if you provide some facts, explain why you are not judging her then she can't just refute you out of hand. She's going to try to provide counter arguments – which at least forces her to think about what's she saying and she has to force her way through any contradictions.
Of course as I write this I realize that the way Kyouko is acting shows her on a knife edge. "There's a place for people like me, Mami. Go home." … she's telling Mami to leave for Mami's sake. She's hunches her shoulders; she mutely shakes her head. She's taken postures that are defensive, meant to make her a smaller target.
Kyouko asked for this meeting, I think, expecting it to go wrong and to give her an excuse to validate her world view. Instead she has Mami refusing to step back from her, asking to be her friend even after she plays the whole "There was once a little girl who killed her family. The end," bit.
She's so close to having friends again, to having Senpai again, but she can't – she can't accept it without marginalizing her own mistakes. Actions and reactions, choices and consequences.
Thinking about it Sayaka is showing a useful tactic. Just drop pointed retorts against what Kyouko is claiming.
Edit: Like I just want to tell Kyouko she's being silly and how none of us are going to judge her, or consider her tainted or something due to what occurred... but I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO MAKE THAT VOTE.
-[X] The place for people like you, Kyouko, is with friends. Deny it all you want but I don't think anyone present would deny being your friend. Even Homura.
--[X] I've seen you with Yuma, I remember how you were ready to gut me like a fish when I showed up with a freshly contracted Yuma, knowing what this life is like. I've watched you train Sayaka. I don't think you are a bad person; I will not judge you on your past, for your actions in the present speak loud enough.
---[X] Apologize to Mami for interrupting but you couldn't let a friend say such things about themselves.
-[X] Let Mami Handle the rest
.... OK I can't figure out a coherent vote really.. so ALL my thoughts plus an attempt!
I think the best way to explain my idea is by explaining how I think the broader behavior Kyouko has with pushing people away interacts with her relationship with Mami.
As Kaizuki said Kyouko viewed Mami as benchmark, a role model, one that she ultimately in the end feels like she betrayed along with her own ideals. So, she pushes Mami away because Mami should not be with someone like her. Kyouko pushes everyone away because she can't be happy – she says its because of the nature of the world but I think that may just be a rationalization.
The reason Mami and Kyouko reconciling is so important, I think is that if Mami Tome the role model still wants to be friends with her maybe, just maybe Kyouko will decide that her actions have not forced her to live without friends.
But Kyouko accepting Mami again runs into both Kyouko's personal history with her and with her impulse to push people away unless she can't rationalize it like our agreement with her to train Sayaka. It also runs afoul of Mami's fears about being alone, and losing friends.
If only we had a group on the sidelines that are friends of Kyouko and Mami. To provide Mami that buttress of morale, to remind her she isn't alone while showing to Kyouko that she's not some irredeemable monster, destined to be left alone.
Oh wait….
We're looking at this as trying to help Mami reconcile with Kyouko when really, we need to see it as a group of friends helping two of their friends make amends and move forward together along a new and better path.
Kyouko and Mami reconciling how Kyouko pushed Mami away is something that can only be done between Mami and Kyouko. But those actions were part, and are part of, a larger pattern of behavior that IS something that can and should be refuted by her friends.
In the end Sayaka, Sabrina, Homura and Mami don't hold how Kyouko left Mami against her or hold any sort of judgement on Kyouko over her wish's connection to the death of her family. But you can't just say that to her – she's just going to deny it all or say you are lying.
But if you provide some facts, explain why you are not judging her then she can't just refute you out of hand. She's going to try to provide counter arguments – which at least forces her to think about what's she saying and she has to force her way through any contradictions.
Of course as I write this I realize that the way Kyouko is acting shows her on a knife edge. "There's a place for people like me, Mami. Go home." … she's telling Mami to leave for Mami's sake. She's hunches her shoulders; she mutely shakes her head. She's taken postures that are defensive, meant to make her a smaller target.
Kyouko asked for this meeting, I think, expecting it to go wrong and to give her an excuse to validate her world view. Instead she has Mami refusing to step back from her, asking to be her friend even after she plays the whole "There was once a little girl who killed her family. The end," bit.
She's so close to having friends again, to having Senpai again, but she can't – she can't accept it without marginalizing her own mistakes. Actions and reactions, choices and consequences.
Thinking about it Sayaka is showing a useful tactic. Just drop pointed retorts against what Kyouko is claiming.
Edit: Like I just want to tell Kyouko she's being silly and how none of us are going to judge her, or consider her tainted or something due to what occurred... but I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO MAKE THAT VOTE.
-[X] The place for people like you, Kyouko, is with friends. Deny it all you want but I don't think anyone present would deny being your friend. Even Homura.
--[X] I've seen you with Yuma, I remember how you were ready to gut me like a fish when I showed up with a freshly contracted Yuma, knowing what this life is like. I've watched you train Sayaka. I don't think you are a bad person; I will not judge you on your past, for your actions in the present speak loud enough.
---[X] Apologize to Mami for interrupting but you couldn't let a friend say such things about themselves.
-[X] Let Mami Handle the rest
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Okay, so, fuck it. I'm like the least qualified of the effortposters here to do this, but it needs to be done. Let's put on a 10 hour loop of Confessio and do some fucking social.
Let's start with analyzing the Mami and Kyouko conversation so far:
Or, rather, its setting. Kyouko chose the meeting place, and she chose a bridge.
This bridge, to be specific, the place where they ended their friendship. This place isn't a happy memory for either of them, but it's an appropriate place to make amends... or to finally cut the last lingering threads. After this meeting, I don't think we'll have a second chance. This is "put up or shut up".
Compare this to how Kyouko acted when we discussed the meeting with her earlier today.
Kyouko's putting on a show here, but it's pure bravado. She's terrified.
Kyouko immediately starts hammering Mami's buttons by implying that Sabrina and Sayaka are just more students that will eventually leave Mami. Really showing her commitment to seeing this reconciliation through, huh? It's intentional self-sabotage, and I strongly suspect that Kyouko's doing this because while she wants to reconcile with Mami, she doesn't think she deserves to.
And this is the other side of the equation, and a large part of why we have to be so careful in terms of how we approach this.
This is the core of Kyouko's self loathing, and her desire to stay away from Mami, driving her away if necessary. She's the awful wretch of a human who killed her entire family. She thinks Mami deserves better. And in Sabrina, she sees that Mami has found that better person.
Indeed, she couldn't. She didn't deserve to be around Mami, when she was so fallen in comparison, and would only drag her down - literally, even, being a burden to sustain without her magic and the skills to sustain herself without it.
She outright says as much, but it's all still fueled by burning anger, and the desire to have Mami leave her.
Ouch. Compare this reveal to the way she approached it with Sayaka, puppet show and all. She's being increasingly blunt, and making light of the whole affair, because she's looking for condemnation.
And Sayaka, best girl that she is, calls her out on it.
Yuma really is sort of the linchpin here. Kyouko's treatment of her was a lot of the reason we thought this reconciliation might be possible at all.
'Nagging.' Mami saved Kyouko's life. Once when Kyouko was a newbie, at which point Kyouko was the one to ask Mami to train her.
Mami then saved Kyouko again after Kyouko lost her family and magic, bundling her up and bringing her home after she found her freezing to death.
Mami gave up hope for Kyouko, once. She won't do so again.
"A place for people like her." That's a refrain that Kyouko has repeated a few times now. It's central to her trauma. Right after the murder-suicide, when she nearly died, she had a hallucination of her family, holding out a whole apple just for her. She refused it - it's too much just for her! It should be shared with everyone else.
But they insist that she take it. After all, they won't need it anymore, since they're leaving.
It's easy to think that the "place she should be" is hell - and indeed there's a fair amount of overtones in that direction. But it ignores part of the story. Where she should be, first and foremost, is "dead". Along with the rest of her family, along with her beloved sister.
Let's start with analyzing the Mami and Kyouko conversation so far:
Or, rather, its setting. Kyouko chose the meeting place, and she chose a bridge.
This bridge, to be specific, the place where they ended their friendship. This place isn't a happy memory for either of them, but it's an appropriate place to make amends... or to finally cut the last lingering threads. After this meeting, I don't think we'll have a second chance. This is "put up or shut up".
Compare this to how Kyouko acted when we discussed the meeting with her earlier today.
Kyouko's putting on a show here, but it's pure bravado. She's terrified.
Kyouko immediately starts hammering Mami's buttons by implying that Sabrina and Sayaka are just more students that will eventually leave Mami. Really showing her commitment to seeing this reconciliation through, huh? It's intentional self-sabotage, and I strongly suspect that Kyouko's doing this because while she wants to reconcile with Mami, she doesn't think she deserves to.
And this is the other side of the equation, and a large part of why we have to be so careful in terms of how we approach this.
This is the core of Kyouko's self loathing, and her desire to stay away from Mami, driving her away if necessary. She's the awful wretch of a human who killed her entire family. She thinks Mami deserves better. And in Sabrina, she sees that Mami has found that better person.
Indeed, she couldn't. She didn't deserve to be around Mami, when she was so fallen in comparison, and would only drag her down - literally, even, being a burden to sustain without her magic and the skills to sustain herself without it.
She outright says as much, but it's all still fueled by burning anger, and the desire to have Mami leave her.
Ouch. Compare this reveal to the way she approached it with Sayaka, puppet show and all. She's being increasingly blunt, and making light of the whole affair, because she's looking for condemnation.
And Sayaka, best girl that she is, calls her out on it.
Yuma really is sort of the linchpin here. Kyouko's treatment of her was a lot of the reason we thought this reconciliation might be possible at all.
'Nagging.' Mami saved Kyouko's life. Once when Kyouko was a newbie, at which point Kyouko was the one to ask Mami to train her.
Mami then saved Kyouko again after Kyouko lost her family and magic, bundling her up and bringing her home after she found her freezing to death.
Mami gave up hope for Kyouko, once. She won't do so again.
"A place for people like her." That's a refrain that Kyouko has repeated a few times now. It's central to her trauma. Right after the murder-suicide, when she nearly died, she had a hallucination of her family, holding out a whole apple just for her. She refused it - it's too much just for her! It should be shared with everyone else.
But they insist that she take it. After all, they won't need it anymore, since they're leaving.
It's easy to think that the "place she should be" is hell - and indeed there's a fair amount of overtones in that direction. But it ignores part of the story. Where she should be, first and foremost, is "dead". Along with the rest of her family, along with her beloved sister.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Idea:
[JK] Hug Mami and Kyouko at same time
-[JK] Ignore Kyouko trying to stab you, she does not *really* mean it
[JK] Hug Mami and Kyouko at same time
-[JK] Ignore Kyouko trying to stab you, she does not *really* mean it
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Right, so, I don't have the energy or stress-tolerance to dig into much of what's going on here right now, so I'm going to keep things brief.
@Redshirt Army Thank you for your effortposts in service of improving the thread's awareness of relevant events.
On "blame QB" I would point out that in canon the thing that got her to discard her caustic hostility and try to reach out to others was the lichbomb being dropped on them. Because it means that the circumstances around her contracting weren't her being stupid, it was QB being malevolent and manipulative. It reminded her of why she became a magical girl, about being a hero ... because it gave her contrast to a villain
@Redshirt Army Thank you for your effortposts in service of improving the thread's awareness of relevant events.
On "blame QB" I would point out that in canon the thing that got her to discard her caustic hostility and try to reach out to others was the lichbomb being dropped on them. Because it means that the circumstances around her contracting weren't her being stupid, it was QB being malevolent and manipulative. It reminded her of why she became a magical girl, about being a hero ... because it gave her contrast to a villain
- Location
- Illinois
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN redshirt you killed it
This is good shit DB, not gonna lie.
So... Okay, here's the plan.
Step one: get Kyouko's backstory on the table. My vote.
Step two: once Kyouko's backstory is on the table, Mami and Sayaka are going to fucking *jump her* with "you're not a bad person" and "this isn't your fault" and we are going to go full goddamn ham right along with them. DB's vote.
Step two point five: we put Kyubey's involvement on the table early on in step two in conjunction with Sayaka. Brina's vote, possibly modified.
[X] Wait. Let Mami handle it.
-[X] If things are seriously not working:
--[X] Out loud, to Mami:
---[X] Mami, if you don't know how to help someone, it's typically not because you aren't "good enough" -- it's almost always because you don't understand their trouble. You usually prefer not to push people to explain themselves to you, instead opting to let other people come and explain their issues to you on their own, but one of the awkward facts about life is that people are generally really bad at deciding to do exactly that. It always seems easier, less risky to just... not tell anybody what's actually wrong. To not volunteer the information you need to understand their problem. It can be hard to tell when, but sometimes, you absolutely have to just push.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Right, the more I think about it the more I dislike this vote and this broad plan, both this version and the prior one with telepathy.
I think your plan here is fundamentally flawed, and the failure here is that the the most important things that Mami doesn't know... Kyouko doesn't know either. Kyouko already explained everything that she thought matters. Years ago, and again here.
If you want more than that, the you need an actual answer: What do you hope to actually have raised here in getting Kyouko's backstory out? What points do you want to see, and how do you expect that to solve or improve the situation? I get that you have a concrete goal in helping Mami with her confidence by allowing her to do this herself but what course of action do you expect that to be?
Just... look how we talk and theorize here. Time and time again, it's never when we say "we should do something!" that anything happens. Instead, it's only when someone produces an actual insight that or an update recontextualizes things and provides new information we see change in discussion.
And between the two, actual evidence and events from a new update does far more to change the discussion than insight.
I don't think it's breaching trust to step in and say things where they'll provide that realization and reexamination. Literally everyone here already knows we know things like this, and we've been upfront with them about that. (Though it would help a lot if we had been honest enough to tell Kyouko that we know things she doesn't.)
It might have worked better if we'd had time to actually plan with Kyouko, but fuck it. We took the course of meeting today and we're stuck with that.
Even as it stands however, the only thing that might ever be needed to the prevent any breach of trust is "Kyouko, is it okay if I say things that you haven't told anyone else yet? Because I think it's incredibly important here."
This is one of the as-yet-unspoken reasons I agree with Godwinson: That vote is something that recontextualizes everything. It will prompt reexamination, and do so in a focused way, one which just giving people advice to dig for info won't. And as Godwinson says, exactly that has happened and work for her before in other timelines.
-------------------------------
Beyond that, I think, DB and Godwinson's/my votes are at cross purposes. Superficially, though not fundamentally.
"I won't judge you for the past" is in direct conflict with "You are not the one in the wrong for the past"
And if you're going to weld all the various points together. I think it would be better to just.. do that. In one vote.
The observant will note that Firn has kinda removed the votecap this update and remember what that usually means.
DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Before work thought:
The big turning points in the post seem to when Sayaka spoke up and when Mami asked Kyouko about *her* [Kyouko's] student.
Something to think about.
The big turning points in the post seem to when Sayaka spoke up and when Mami asked Kyouko about *her* [Kyouko's] student.
Something to think about.
- Location
- Illinois
I'm going to be honest: this is just not true. It is literally false. Kyouko never told Mami a god damn thing about what happened. She never told her what her father did, she never told her what her father had been doing, she never said any damn thing about her dad finding her in that scene with the witch kisses, literally all she ever did was have vague, impossible to contextualize conversations with Mami about quasi-morality that Mami sort of took at face value because she had no fucking idea what was happening in Kyouko's life.
You're looking for some great insight, but the insight is literally that any of this ever happened at all. And honestly, that's the most powerful kind we've seen, which has only happened once: it was in timestop, when Mami found out that Homura was a person, and stopped being able to despise her.
The insight is literally that Kyouko's Dad fucking *broke her*, and that nothing Mami could have ever said would've helped because she didn't *understand that*. I've read TDS, I've seen what happened: literally the primary issue was that Kyouko wasn't sharing what the fuck was going on.
So unless your argument is that Kyouko is *incapable* of sharing that information -- which I don't think you were saying but could be said, I suppose -- I'm just not seeing it. This isn't an insight to us or Kyouko, but it sure as *fucking hell* is one to Mami, and as I've said before, I believe that once she has that information she can actually help Kyouko by literally standing up and saying, "Your dad was fucking *wrong* to villainize you for this." Because *she is a role model to Kyouko.*
If firn has lifted the vote cap here, I'll extend my vote in the next hour or so, because uh, yeah, lol. Thanks for telling me about that ><
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also, we directly told Kyoko that we'd do that before bringing Mami and she agreed to meet with the understanding that we would, so if anything us having avoided doing that so far is the breach of trust.
- Location
- Illinois
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
What Mami knows:
• Kyouko was out of contact with her for longer than usual, which was uncharacteristic of her.
• Mami heard on the news about the Sakura family dying in a suspected murder-suicide that burned their home down.
• Mami immediately hauled ass to Kasamino, where she managed to find a mangled Kyouko slowly dying of hypothermia in the snow after a disastrous witch hunt.
• Mami took Kyouko home and made her tea, fed her food, and lent her clothes. She offered Kyouko a chance to stay with her.
• Mami and Kyouko went hunting, and encountered a familiar. Still reeling from the loss of her magic, just a familiar was almost able to hurt Kyouko if not for Mami's help.
• Mami offered to do all of the hunting for both of them until Kyouko could get back on her feet.
• Kyouko, feeling like a useless burden, instead tried to drive Mami away by bringing up letting familiars live, something she knew was a sore spot for Mami.
• Mami called her out on this being just a lie and urged Kyouko not to lose her ideals.
• Kyouko pulled out her weapon and said she'd drive Mami away by force if she had to.
• They fought, Mami intentionally aimed to miss, so Kyouko pinned her with her spear at Mami's throat.
• Kyouko walked away. They both break down in tears, Kyouko because Mami deserves someone better, Mami because she's been left alone again.
• Kyouko was out of contact with her for longer than usual, which was uncharacteristic of her.
• Mami heard on the news about the Sakura family dying in a suspected murder-suicide that burned their home down.
• Mami immediately hauled ass to Kasamino, where she managed to find a mangled Kyouko slowly dying of hypothermia in the snow after a disastrous witch hunt.
• Mami took Kyouko home and made her tea, fed her food, and lent her clothes. She offered Kyouko a chance to stay with her.
• Mami and Kyouko went hunting, and encountered a familiar. Still reeling from the loss of her magic, just a familiar was almost able to hurt Kyouko if not for Mami's help.
• Mami offered to do all of the hunting for both of them until Kyouko could get back on her feet.
• Kyouko, feeling like a useless burden, instead tried to drive Mami away by bringing up letting familiars live, something she knew was a sore spot for Mami.
• Mami called her out on this being just a lie and urged Kyouko not to lose her ideals.
• Kyouko pulled out her weapon and said she'd drive Mami away by force if she had to.
• They fought, Mami intentionally aimed to miss, so Kyouko pinned her with her spear at Mami's throat.
• Kyouko walked away. They both break down in tears, Kyouko because Mami deserves someone better, Mami because she's been left alone again.
Nickballas
Pride is an interesting aspect of human nature.
- Location
- Greece
Fucking Teenage angst amrite?
- Location
- Illinois
[X] Out loud, for everyone to hear, without pausing, without inflection:
-[X] Something like a year ago, in winter, Kyubey failed to do its job and wipe the memory of Pastor Sakura of the Sakura Church after he discovered his elder daughter Kyouko standing over a large group of apparently dead people -- unconscious witch kisses -- in front of an altar and wearing a red dress, having just slain a witch in her own home. Pastor Sakura became convinced that Kyouko had made dealings with the devil in order to bewitch people, and descended into alcoholism and abusive behavior before eventually burning himself, his wife, and his younger daughter Momo alive in what is referred to as the "Sakura Church Fire."
--[X] Shut back up.
back to the future i guess
Given that quote from Torg, if Kyouko won't tell the full story we'd damn well better. We have permission *and* a responsibility to it. That beats out everything else.
- Location
- Laniakea
Uh... maybe a bit more tact than that.
We should probably remind Kyoko first that she promised to explain and that "I killed my family the end" does not really count. Because I wouldn't be surprised if Kyoko legitimately forgot the original idea the moment she laid eyes on Mami and her blood pressure started rising.
And even then, I'd only do that if Mami fails to push for a proper explanation on her own.
I do think that whatever needs to be said in this situation should be and will work best when said by Mami and we should give her as much opportunity to do so as possible before stepping in.
Which possibly means cleaning her Soul Gem, lest it distracts her from realizing that Kyoko is still stonewalling.
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Torgamous
Aspiring Gynoid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We promised to explain. This isn't on her.
[X] Out loud, for everyone to hear, without pausing, without inflection:
-[X] Something like a year ago, in winter, Kyubey failed to do its job and wipe the memory of Pastor Sakura of the Sakura Church after he discovered his elder daughter Kyouko standing over a large group of apparently dead people -- unconscious witch kisses -- in front of an altar and wearing a red dress, having just slain a witch in her own home. Pastor Sakura became convinced that Kyouko had made dealings with the devil in order to bewitch people, and descended into alcoholism and abusive behavior before eventually burning himself, his wife, and his younger daughter Momo alive in what is referred to as the "Sakura Church Fire."
--[X] Shut back up.
-[X] Something like a year ago, in winter, Kyubey failed to do its job and wipe the memory of Pastor Sakura of the Sakura Church after he discovered his elder daughter Kyouko standing over a large group of apparently dead people -- unconscious witch kisses -- in front of an altar and wearing a red dress, having just slain a witch in her own home. Pastor Sakura became convinced that Kyouko had made dealings with the devil in order to bewitch people, and descended into alcoholism and abusive behavior before eventually burning himself, his wife, and his younger daughter Momo alive in what is referred to as the "Sakura Church Fire."
--[X] Shut back up.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Thank you for that Torgamous.
On a side note, can I point out here how this conversational development and its result encapsulates my example perfectly?
We talk and talk and talk, and it's only when a piece of evidence arises that things actually shift in a major way.
Only this time, it's a result of our collective memory being shot.
That's why Sabrina has brain damage.Only this time, it's a result of our collective memory being shot.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Kyuubey:That's why Sabrina has brain damage.
"Kaname Madoka forgot she was as goddess,
"Akemi Homura forgot she was a 'witch'.
"And Sabrina Vee forgot what she was doing.
"Bringing us to this grand pointless endeavor."
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I just can't imagine Kyuubey's cutesy voice speaking such prose.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
As a matter of fact, It's directly lifted and only moderately altered from one of the Rebellion translations.