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[X] Action Plan: Contracts and Contacts

I still don't think Leaf is a safe place for us right now. Hiashi hates us and would gladly destroy us given an excuse, and the only thing Orochimaru would like more than our guts on a research table is our being his brainwashed assistant. Our only real leverage for negotiation is our ability to blow shit up, and our friendship with Naruto. Naruto likes us, but he probably wouldn't ignore an order from the Hokage just to get us the dog scroll, and while we are good at blowing things up, we don't have the combat resources to be able to translate that into power easily.

Ultimately I don't think Orochimaru or Hiashi are enemies in our challenge rating, we need time, and resources. Considering that Isan has plenty of ninja, and we have been ordered to go there by the Hokage, we should probably start planning how to make sure things there go well (i.e. making sure we're on good terms with Yuno, and getting Akane to go with us)
 
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[x] Action plan: Hugs for snakes

[X] Action Plan: Contracts and Contacts

[X] And Push It Somewhere Else

I feel like the deadman switch idea is overly likely to destroy the entire universe (I think that even a 1/10,000 chance to do that is wayyyyyy too much, and I don't think it's that low anyway), and doesn't have sufficient countermeasures for the possibility of Orochimaru genjutsu-ing us, then finding a way to mind control us to defuse the bomb. I also think that there's a chance of our friends/family getting kidnapped and used as leverage for this. More worrisome, I'm afraid of incomplete information transfer. If an enemy village hears we have a massive bomb on us at all times, and doesn't hear that it's connected to sealing failures, that would be bad.
 
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Hey, @eaglejarl, without commenting on the idea's sanity, feasibility, or morality, do you think it'd be fun to write us trying to implement this?
Could go either way, I think. Depends on what the gadget is.

Also, realized when Jiraiya said that we needed the Pangolin money that he could have just started spending his nest egg. Guess he wasn't willing to do so
Doylist: We hadn't realized he was rich.

Watsonian: Blah blah money dedicated to search for Naruto blah lack of liquidity blah big economics words blah blah.


Personally, I wouldn't mind looking over Jiraiya's old spy notes, maybe some of his contacts/blackmail material could help us on this.
It would be easier if you asked specific questions OOC instead of forcing us to make up a crapton of stuff that doesn't end up used.

Also, congrats to @eaglejarl for turning 50 this year! I kid, I kid :p.
Next year. I'm 49 this December. I appreciate the thought, though.

Can we not buy the compound right next to the Hyuga, who will be target #1 in a Battle of Konohagakure?
*cough* There may have been some perfectly understandable confusion on the part of one of the writers, who, while being a brilliant and handsome fellow, is apparently a bit of a chowderhead, since he put your (now Orochimaru's) compound next to the Hyūga even though it wasn't supposed to be.

Also, there's no need for us to buy a traditional compound or estate and act like a traditional clan.
Note that the Shimura estate is outside the walls, and quite expansive. Also fairly cheap for its size.

Given that Hazou was looking at Leaf land laws: If one owns a plot of land, do they own all the land underneath it? i.e. do we own all the land underground beneath the tavern we bought?
In QM chat with proposed answer now, waiting for corroboration.


EDIT: Re dead man's switch. First thing in having something like this (as Mari and Keiko will tell you) is that it only works if everyone knows that it exists and what it will do.
 
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First thing in having something like this (as Mari and Keiko will tell you) is that it only works if everyone knows that it exists and what it will do.


Dr. Strangelove said:
Deterrence is the art of producing, in the mind of the enemy, the fear to attack!
...
The whole point of the doomsday machine...is lost if you keep it a secret! WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL THE WORLD, EH?!
 
So... Did we try the "Contact through Keiko, offer our expertise in exchange of accepting Hazou as a summoner" to the Dogs? Because the Snakes still have Orochimaru, but the Dogs don't...
Otherwise we can use Naruto(S-ranker in a village on the brink of war)+ KEI and then personally talk with the other clans, trying to convince them to give Naruto the ownership of the scroll(As a repayment for the Hokage election), and then asking Naruto to give it to us if he's so inclined(Because he can't use Summoning Scrolls IIRC).
 
I feel like the deadman switch idea is overly likely to destroy the entire universe (I think that even a 1/10,000 chance to do that is wayyyyyy too much, and I don't think it's that low anyway), and doesn't have sufficient countermeasures for the possibility of Orochimaru genjutsu-ing us, then finding a way to mind control us to defuse the bomb. I also think that there's a chance of our friends/family getting kidnapped and used as leverage for this. More worrisome, I'm afraid of incomplete information transfer. If an enemy village hears we have a massive bomb on us at all times, and doesn't hear that it's connected to sealing failures, that would be bad.
  • Accidental activation: In that case Kagome simply wouldn't approve it.
  • Mind control: I tweaked the Version 2 design a little, it now offers sufficient protection against Yamanaka-style mind control (you'd essentially need to learn a new jutsu to be able to reset it, something that should take more than a day), and Orochimaru is unlikely to have anything more advanced than that (and "but what if he does?" is a fully general objection to any anti-Orochimaru plan: "what if he has Ability X that completely defeats this plan specifically?").
    • Note that the hypothetical mind-controller would need to get all of us simultaneously: we'll build only one real device, but we'll give each Team Uplift member a decoy, and we'll switch them up daily, such that not even we will know who has the decoy. This way, there's no compound risk of accidental activation, but no-one should be willing to try their luck anyway (17% risk of destroying the universe is still way too high).
  • Kidnapping: As stated, they'll have their own doomsday devices — if they're kidnapped, they'll just refuse to reset them.
    • And we shouldn't respond to blackmail anyway, that's a sucker's game.
  • Incomplete information transfer: Obviously we'll publicly communicate all the details; ensuring that the other party is perfectly aware you have a doomsday device is the entire point.
• Use black paper for all seals (anti-Byakugan measure).
• After filling Implosion Seals with air, put them on top of each other and roll them up tightly.
• Put the SIN roll into a compact (5x5x30 cm? depends on seals' size) but sturdy metal box encased in waterproof leather. Attach LBFs hooked up to explosion seals inside the box, such that any structural damage to it (or an attempt to disassemble it) results in detonation.
• Incorporate a spring-based 30-hour timer and a combination lock into the box's lid.
-----• Correctly inputting the password gives access to the insides, allowing to reset the timer, carefully remove the SINs, or conduct maintenance.
-----• If the timer isn't reset, the mechanism waves a bar between LBFs, activating them.

• Possible improvements:
-----• Can anti-Byakugan seals be moved while active? If yes, put a small-radius one inside the device — no need for black paper.
----------• If they can't be, only ever input the password under (stationary) anti-Byakugan seals.
-----• Replace the combination lock with a locking seal that responds only to the correct chakra signature (or which needs to be unlocked by some highly specific chakra manipulation, one resistant to reverse-engineering and difficult to learn (anti-Yamanaka measure)). We already have an example of a chakra-discriminating locking seal.
-----• Replace the timer with a seal-based one.
-----• Ideally, combine most of the support seals into one: a seal which, if it isn't reset by a specific complex chakra-based interaction every 24 hours, explodes.

• Tech tree:
-----• Version 0: Bare-bones prototype. No lock, no timer, no internal LBFs, only the sturdy box and anti-Byakugan seals (if movable). Manual activation.
-----• Version 1: Add the combination lock, the timer, and internal LBFs with explosives. Use a seal-based timer if possible.
-----• Version 2: Combine the lock, the timer, and the explosives into a single seal.
 
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Note that the Shimura estate is outside the walls, and quite expansive. Also fairly cheap for its size.
Does that mean we'd be able to leave the walls whenever we want without an explicit mission, in order to go home? Or would we usually be stuck in Leaf and unable to stay at the estate?

Accidental activation: In that case Kagome simply wouldn't approve it.
Well, I suppose that Kagome's lungs could use a good workout. :p
 
@Noumero You should move the design for your deadman switch out of the plan. @Velorien may or may not be willing to exclude it from the wordcount of the plan, but I doubt very much if he will go to the trouble of manually excising it before checking the total. I certainly wouldn't.

A few comments:

Attach LBFs hooked up to explosion seals inside the box,
I cannot visualize how you set these up in such confined quarters such that the contents of the box can't interfere. I suspect you need a diagram.

Incorporate a spring-based 30-hour timer
How does that work?

No such thing in MfD.

Do you mean combination?

Does that mean we'd be able to leave the walls whenever we want without an explicit mission, in order to go home?
Presumably. No one would buy it otherwise.
 
The shimura estate being outside seems like a plus. Easier to come and go, easier to fuck off if leaving Leaf is a very real possibility, and we can just build our own walls anyway. I'm sure Kagome would love it at least.
 
@Noumero You should move the design for your deadman switch out of the plan. @Velorien may or may not be willing to exclude it from the wordcount of the plan, but I doubt very much if he will go to the trouble of manually excising it before checking the total. I certainly wouldn't.
Done.
I cannot visualize how you set these up in such confined quarters such that the contents of the box can't interfere. I suspect you need a diagram.
How large are the seals, in width/height? (@faflec, was that answered before?)
No such thing in MfD.
I see. But Kagome knows locking seals, right? He'd hacked one back in Mountain, and we should at least have the blank of that one.
Like a watch? There are no watches in MfD either, are there.
Do you mean combination?
Yes.
 
The shimura estate being outside seems like a plus. Easier to come and go, easier to fuck off if leaving Leaf is a very real possibility, and we can just build our own walls anyway. I'm sure Kagome would love it at least.
Granted, Shimura died because the seals on his fences failed, allowing a bunch of chakra beasts to sneak onto the property and eat him.

@eaglejarl, @faflec, others: one thing that would make my life easier is if you can link me posts with useful formation as you come across them. Don't go out of your way to do this, it just gives me a list of stuff to go through first so I can gather as much data as fast as possible.

I do plan on reading though the thread marks from adoption onward, and the entire thread for the last few months. So I'll probably get most things, but pointers

Just send me a pm with the link, I'll filter through the actual data on my own. Iff you think useful data might be easy for me to miss, then add a few words so I know what you want me to find. Otherwise completely black messages are fine.

Specifically I'm gathering info on:

  • All the information we have on council clans and their variable leanings and interests.
  • General economic information on the elemental nations, fire, and leaf.
  • Everything on Goketsu finances specifically.
How large are the seals, in width/height? (@faflec, was that answered before?)
@faflec or approximately palm-sized, I believe.

see. But Kagome knows locking seals, right? He'd hacked one back in Mountain, and we should at least have the blank of that one.
Seems reasonable.

There are no watches in MfD either, are there.
Nope. :>
 
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The Shimura Estate is definitely the best one then. The only downside I can see is that it's easier to disappear us and say that chakra beasts did it, but that's what Kagome level quantities of traps are for. Well, that and hoping that Hiashi doesn't have any spare jonin that he would bother using to disappear us, but an alliance with him would also help quite a lot with making that not worth the effort.
 
@faflec or approximately palm-sized, I believe.
Tripwire seals have a maximum length equal to 40x the smallest dimension of the two seals that define the ends. That means that in order to make a tripwire 10' long (120") you need two seals (one for each end), each of which must be at least 3" in its longest dimension. That's about the size of your palm.
I mean, faflec.yes, but it sounds like they can be made smaller?
 
Ok, Shinura Estate + Kagome seems to be a win.

Of course, all manner of stuff might be lurking in there by now, who knows? Maybe even some squatters...

(Dungeon Crawl II !!!)
 
Granted, Shimura died because the seals on his fences failed, allowing a bunch of changes beasts to sneak onto the property and eat him.
riiiiiiiiiiiiight the fences failed ;)

No but that is a concern, if not the wildlife then political rivals/enemies who would take advantage of the situation and cause an "accident". Hell if it didn't mean losing two sealmasters who can make skywalkers I'm sure that's what Hiashi would try to set up since of course he'd want to take some advantage over Oro's return. He still might too. That said I'm still for the Shimura estate, we'll just have to build some heavy defenses.
 
As long as we keep KEI on the grounds Hiashi would be insane to accidentally us: that many ninja dying would be a catastrophic blow to Leaf's survivability.
 
Plus with Kagome's expertise, Hazo's easy wall making, and Naruto's manpower we could make a really secure border around us.
 
Ok, Shinura Estate + Kagome seems to be a win.

Of course, all manner of stuff might be lurking in there by now, who knows? Maybe even some squatters...

(Dungeon Crawl II !!!)

I swear to Jashin, if Danzou suddenly shows up to reclaim his house and we need to go through this exhausting morality debate again...
 
Accidental activation: In that case Kagome simply wouldn't approve it.
I'd prefer this doomsday device be offscreened, considering I find us unlikely to find a viable solution soon and don't want it to eat up a scene.
Also, I am concerned by how easily Hazou can influence Kagome with respect to security. Considering he was able to convince Kagome to enter the basement, leading to the near-death of Noburi.

Hmm, looks like we suddenly have access to much less liquid money than we realized. Perhaps we should adjust our spending habits accordingly.
 
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I swear to Jashin, if Danzou suddenly shows up to reclaim his house and we need to go through this exhausting morality debate again...
I think at this point we pack our bags "to move" and find a nice quiet plot of land in Vegetable to slowly transfer all of our people to.
 
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