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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I don't think there's really anything to discuss wrt. housing. We are not safe in continuous proximity to Orochimaru and that rules out letting him become clan head or renting the compound from him.

The things we actually need to discuss are the clan's immediate future and ongoing policy wrt Orochimaru.

[X] Action Plan: Build up ... tear down.

Word Count: 300
  • Clean up, then gather Uplift + Naruto somewhere secure.
    • Political expedience aside, Naruto is Jiraiya's successor and effective clan head if he wishes.
  • Provide rundown of the chat.
  • Announce that Orochimaru won't be clanhead.
    • Affirm that the clan is a family first, political organization second.
    • This includes affiliates like KEI, we care for each other.
  • Discuss housing:
    • We will vacate ASAP.
    • Where? Uzumaki Compound? Other places on the market?
  • Discuss compensation for housing loss:
    • Do we have any leverage to get the tower to reimburse us?
    • Is the seller of this compound liable for an illegal sale?
  • Discuss consequences of this disruption, esp. given the war that's coming.
    • What does this mean for our safety? stability? ability to continue pushing for Uplift?
  • Discuss how to deal with Orochimaru.
    • He doesn't care about others except when they annoy him or disrupt his plans.
    • Tsunade and Naruto might be able to kill him if he oversteps, but that's bad for Leaf.
    • Ideally, we'd convince him that acting humanely is his best interest.
    • We might be the only ones in Leaf able to do that, we have sufficiently similar goals, and his mindset is not so alien to us.
    • How do we make ourselves interesting enough that he's willing to listen and think about what we say? without getting annoyed enough to kill us?
  • Immediate Orders:
    • Everyone: Get assistance from KEI ninja where reasonable. We need to show trust to deserve it.
    • Mari, Naruto: Secure temporary housing and storage.
    • Keiko, Naruto: Get KEI up to speed, make sure we get everything important packed up and ready to move.
    • Kagome: Seals as needed for storage and cash, try to keep up your teaching.
    • Naruto: Update Tsunade on the situation at your discretion.
    • Noburi, Akane: Orders depend on next vote. They'll be the exfil/cleanup team if Hazou going to interact with Orochimaru again.
 
Kiba said:
[X] Plan: Duty to the Clan

  • Clean up and then gather Team Uplift + Naruto
  • Things didn't go that bad, actually. We got through like four topics before we annoyed him, and having a seizure against his KI probably interested him more than annoyed him.
  • Before anything else, announce that Orochimaru won't be clanhead.
    • Affirm that the clan is a family first, political organization second.
    • Orochimaru seemed entirely disinterested in Hazo and co other than what they can do for him.
  • Here are our options, as a clan:
    • We can vacate the compound wholesale.
    • We can arrange rent payments to stay on the property.
    • Orochimaru would be willing to join the Goketsu if he becomes Clan Head and gets to rebrand it. This is obviously no.
  • A lot of this comes down to Naruto
    • You have a claim on the title of Lord Goketsu, the clan is yours if you want it.
    • If we vacate the compound altogether we'll need a place to stay, and hopefully a place for the KEI ninja to stay. If the Uzumaki compound can be that place then that's probably preferable to renting land on the Orochimaru estate.
      • If not then the former Shimura Estate might be a good pick, assuming we can afford it and/or get our money from the Goketsu Estate back from the Tower.
  • Oh, and Noburi, Orochimaru talked about 'decontamination' of the octocat, and kind of implied Konoha might be facing a chakra plague. Should we be worried?
  • Other stuff:
    • Get KEI ninja and remaining civilians on the property ready to move ASAP, whereever it may be. Keiko will plan logistics.​
    • Send agents to scout for locations that the clan could buy, either as public housing and/or new clan compound.​
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Jello_Raptor said:
I don't think there's really anything to discuss wrt. housing. We are not safe in continuous proximity to Orochimaru and that rules out letting him become clan head or renting the compound from him.

The things we actually need to discuss are the clan's immediate future and ongoing policy wrt Orochimaru.

[X] Action Plan: Build up ... tear down.

Word Count: 300
  • Clean up, then gather Uplift + Naruto somewhere secure.
    • Political expedience aside, Naruto is Jiraiya's successor and effective clan head if he wishes.
  • Provide rundown of the chat.
  • Announce that Orochimaru won't be clanhead.
    • Affirm that the clan is a family first, political organization second.
    • This includes affiliates like KEI, we care for each other.
  • Discuss housing:
    • We will vacate ASAP.
    • Where? Uzumaki Compound? Other places on the market?
  • Discuss compensation for housing loss:
    • Do we have any leverage to get the tower to reimburse us?
    • Is the seller of this compound liable for an illegal sale?
  • Discuss consequences of this disruption, esp. given the war that's coming.
    • What does this mean for our safety? stability? ability to continue pushing for Uplift?
  • Discuss how to deal with Orochimaru.
    • He doesn't care about others except when they annoy him or disrupt his plans.
    • Tsunade and Naruto might be able to kill him if he oversteps, but that's bad for Leaf.
    • Ideally, we'd convince him that acting humanely is his best interest.
    • We might be the only ones in Leaf able to do that, we have sufficiently similar goals, and his mindset is not so alien to us.
    • How do we make ourselves interesting enough that he's willing to listen and think about what we say? without getting annoyed enough to kill us?
  • Immediate Orders:
    • Everyone: Get assistance from KEI ninja where reasonable. We need to show trust to deserve it.
    • Mari, Naruto: Secure temporary housing and storage.
    • Keiko, Naruto: Get KEI up to speed, make sure we get everything important packed up and ready to move.
    • Kagome: Seals as needed for storage and cash, try to keep up your teaching.
    • Naruto: Update Tsunade on the situation at your discretion.
    • Noburi, Akane: Orders depend on next vote. They'll be the exfil/cleanup team if Hazou going to interact with Orochimaru again.
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Both of these plans are very inactive. They aren't doing anything and are just pointless talking. They don't advance any goals
 
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[] Action Plan: Build up ... tear down.
[X] Plan: Duty to the Clan
@Jello_Raptor do we maybe want to include that land that we own as a possible housing option (we could probably make habitable in [insert short amount of time] as temp housing)
 
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Oneiros said:
Both of these plans are very inactive. They aren't doing anything and are just pointless talking. They don't advance any goals
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The protoplan I posted serves the key purpose of briefing the clan on the situation and running through their opinions of it so we can make an informed decision. The way kiba adapted it large parts of the decision space were culled, which admittedly does diminish the point of spending so much focus on clan opinions.

I'll agree that for both plans it's plausible to try and implement whatever decisions we end up at after the meeting, or at least some of them, but I disagree that the meeting in and of itself is pointless. I know that we err on the side of discussion and waiting until we have complete information, but that's the kind of attitude that prevents us from getting the information we need in the first place, leading to reckless and stupid behaviour.
 
Kiba said:
[X] Plan: Duty to the Clan

  • Clean up and then gather Team Uplift + Naruto
  • Things didn't go that bad, actually. We got through like four topics before we annoyed him, and having a seizure against his KI probably interested him more than annoyed him.
  • Before anything else, announce that Orochimaru won't be clanhead.
    • Affirm that the clan is a family first, political organization second.
    • Orochimaru seemed entirely disinterested in Hazo's clan other than how they could benefit him.
    • But before Hazo reject Orochimaru out of hand, any objections?
  • Naruto
    • You have a claim on the title of Lord Goketsu, the clan is yours if you want it.
    • If we vacate the compound altogether we'll need a place to stay, and hopefully a place for the KEI ninja to stay. If the Uzumaki compound can be that place then it's preferable to purchasing or renting somewhere else.
      • If not then the former Shimura Estate might be a good pick, assuming we can afford it and/or get our money from the Goketsu Estate back from the Tower.
  • Delegate
    • Get KEI ninja and remaining civilians on the property ready to move ASAP, whereever it may be. Ask Keiko to plan logistics.​
    • Hazo and Kagome will make storage seals.​
    • Mari will work on getting our money back. Idea: Broadsheet announcing the news.​
    • Send agents to scout for locations that the clan could buy, either as public housing and/or new clan compound.​
    • Kenta will get all the craftspeople ready to help rebuild. Make sure we have enough money to do so.​
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Click to shrink...

Cleaned up the action plan. Orochimaru is moot.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
I don't think there's really anything to discuss wrt. housing. We are not safe in continuous proximity to Orochimaru and that rules out letting him become clan head or renting the compound from him.

The things we actually need to discuss are the clan's immediate future and ongoing policy wrt Orochimaru.

[X] Action Plan: Build up ... tear down.

Word Count: 300
  • Clean up, then gather Uplift + Naruto somewhere secure.
    • Political expedience aside, Naruto is Jiraiya's successor and effective clan head if he wishes.
  • Provide rundown of the chat.
  • Announce that Orochimaru won't be clanhead.
    • Affirm that the clan is a family first, political organization second.
    • This includes affiliates like KEI, we care for each other.
  • Discuss housing:
    • We will vacate ASAP.
    • Where? Uzumaki Compound? Other places on the market?
  • Discuss compensation for housing loss:
    • Do we have any leverage to get the tower to reimburse us?
    • Is the seller of this compound liable for an illegal sale?
  • Discuss consequences of this disruption, esp. given the war that's coming.
    • What does this mean for our safety? stability? ability to continue pushing for Uplift?
  • Discuss how to deal with Orochimaru.
    • He doesn't care about others except when they annoy him or disrupt his plans.
    • Tsunade and Naruto might be able to kill him if he oversteps, but that's bad for Leaf.
    • Ideally, we'd convince him that acting humanely is his best interest.
    • We might be the only ones in Leaf able to do that, we have sufficiently similar goals, and his mindset is not so alien to us.
    • How do we make ourselves interesting enough that he's willing to listen and think about what we say? without getting annoyed enough to kill us?
  • Immediate Orders:
    • Everyone: Get assistance from KEI ninja where reasonable. We need to show trust to deserve it.
    • Mari, Naruto: Secure temporary housing and storage.
    • Keiko, Naruto: Get KEI up to speed, make sure we get everything important packed up and ready to move.
    • Kagome: Seals as needed for storage and cash, try to keep up your teaching.
    • Naruto: Update Tsunade on the situation at your discretion.
    • Noburi, Akane: Orders depend on next vote. They'll be the exfil/cleanup team if Hazou going to interact with Orochimaru again.
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Click to shrink...

  • Compensation for housing loss: We can just delegate it to Mari. We don't need to worry about the fussy details.
  • What is the purpose of discussing the disruption? It's not like all our storage seals went away.
  • What is the purpose of this discussion if we don't have any ideas ourselves and asking the QM to do more thinky work?
  • Update Tsunade on what? What purpose does it serve? Also, as I said before, Mari should be delegated to figuring out how to get our compensation.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I wonder what would happen if you inverted the status quo. Like roobee said, suppose everyone took the pill centuries ago, and instead what you're offering them is a pill that returns their lifespan back to normal and gets rid of all of those advantages.

"The status quo is okay" is a strong force to reckon with, and I think shifting it to your favour might help weed out who's just finding an excuse to take the 'do nothing' option and who really actually doesn't want any life extensions.
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Gather all the Great Powers and have their Kage collectively beat your face in before you can halfway finish the ritual?


TarzanNn said:
[x] Lore Update: Kagome's Forbidden Lore

I'm too pissed at Oro atm and last few chapters were pretty intense, so having a little break would be appreciated. Otherwise I'd go with IV's Protoplan
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What's wrong with Uncle Oro? He seems a lot like father back before he tripped and fell on that knife in the kitchen thirty-seven times.
 
Kiba said:
[X] Plan: Duty to the Clan

  • Clean up and then gather Team Uplift + Naruto
  • Things didn't go that bad, actually. We got through like four topics before we annoyed him, and having a seizure against his KI probably interested him more than annoyed him.
  • Before anything else, announce that Orochimaru won't be clanhead.
    • Affirm that the clan is a family first, political organization second.
    • Hazo briefly lost sight of that.
    • Orochimaru seemed entirely disinterested in Hazo's clan other than how they could benefit him.
    • But before Hazo reject Orochimaru out of hand, any objections?
  • Naruto
    • Political expedience aside, you can become our clanhead if you wish. Jiraiya wished for us to be a family.
    • Possible to use the Uzumaki compound as temporary shelter until something can be worked out?
  • Delegate
    • Get KEI ninja and remaining civilians on the property ready to move ASAP, whereever it may be. Ask Keiko to plan logistics.​
    • Hazo and Kagome will make storage seals.​
    • Mari will work on getting our money back. Idea: Broadsheet announcing the news.​
    • Send agents to scout for locations that the clan could buy, either as public housing and/or new clan compound.​
    • Kenta will get all the craftspeople ready to help rebuild. Make sure we have enough money to do so.​
    • Camping outside of town but still inside the walls may be an option.​
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Rewrite the Naruto section. Also mentioned camping outside of town.
 
A bunch of people here made really good points, I'm too lazy to go out and cite everyone.

Properly incorporating those edits is radical enough a departure that it deserves a new plan. I'm not really going to be maintaining the old, but I'm happy to forward that to someone who will maintain it. Likewise, I'm asleep at 12pm London time, and there's usually a bunch of last minute activity, so if someone is willing to edit it as needed I'm happy to make the plan link to a duplicate someone is maintaining for the last few hours.

[x] Action Plan : Is snake insurance a thing?

Word Count: 341
  • While Hazou gets cleaned up, we need runners:
    • Mari, see if Anko is willing to join us for a meeting ASAP, update her on the way back. [1]
    • Akane, grab a Naruto to meet with us.
    • Noburi, inform Kabuto of Oro's return and his annexation of the basement. Set previous agreements aside, ask for a clean slate for future negotiations. [2]
  • Meet with Uplift + Naruto + Anko somewhere secure, brief them on our chat, and discuss: [3]
    • Orochimaru is fundamentally amoral, seems to be driven by self interest.
    • He has a history of gross violations of human rights.
    • We need him to stay but want him to refrain from his worst excesses.
    • Force won't moderate him, he'll slither away.
    • We need him to choose cooperation because it's in his best interests.
    • What does he want? Can we provide them in a way that doesn't undermine Leaf?
    • Is it possible for him to trust us without controlling us? [4]
    • In the short term, we need him to listen to and honestly consider our words.
    • How can we become interesting enough to listen to? How do we survive that?
  • With just Uplift + Naruto:
    • Oro will not be clan head. We're a family first ... political entity second.
      • Including KEI and other affiliates, we care for each other.
    • Oro is dangerous to be around now, we'll relocate.
      • Options: Uzumaki/Shimura Compounds? Properties on market? Temporary housing/storage? Other Goketsu Properties?
    • Legal recourse for annexation of the compound:
      • Leverage on the tower? Is the seller liable for an illegal sale?
  • Immediate Orders:
    • Everyone: Get assistance from KEI ninja where reasonable. We need to show trust to deserve it.
    • Mari, Naruto: Secure temporary housing and storage.
    • Keiko, Naruto: Get KEI up to speed, make sure we get everything important packed up and ready to move.
    • Kagome: Seals as needed for storage and cash, try to keep up teaching and KEI routine.
    • Naruto: Update Tsunade at your discretion.
    • Noburi, Akane: Orders depend on next vote. They'll exfil/cleanup if Hazou is going to interact with Orochimaru again.[5]

[1]: We need Anko's insight, even if everything we say in front of her must be assumed compromised.
[2]: There's a good chance that Kabuto knows already, but this is still an important gesture of good faith. Yes, we pushed hard when we had the upper hand, but we're aren't going to hold grudges.
[3]: Yes, I'm assuming that Anko is completely compromised. We don't care if Orochimaru hears everything from here on out. He already knows that we find his experiments distasteful, and that we're making an effort to cooperate despite that being very hard will be obvious.
[4]: I'd argue that we're (Anko incl.) the only people in Leaf who Orochimaru might come to trust. We have relatively similar goals, we can interact with him without his needing to posture or threaten. We also know how to
[5]: We should get Hazou a helmet ...
 
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@Jello_Raptor I dislike your new plan more. It forces the QMs to do more while we do nothing.

Also, have you looked at my criticism of the previous plan? It still contain criticisms you may want to address.
 
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[x] Action Plan : Is snake insurance a thing?

e: I do agree with Kiba, though, there's a lot of it where we're just asking for QM ideas. Anything that ends with a question mark should be set aside for the moment and put forth to the hivemind so we can at least give input.
 
Also, we want to generally pair up a question with an action if possible. This make its actionable and less boring. But we don't need to ask many questions, just the important ones.

There are also things we can just delegate stuff to. Like, we don't need to know who's liable(The tower is the one who owe us money). Just delegate Mari do her things.
 
@faflec: Don't have time to search but I thought it was mentioned in passing in one of the Mari interludes or the orgy incident.

Something about being good at dealing with poison.

Cariyaga said:
e: I do agree with Kiba, though, there's a lot of it where we're just asking for QM ideas. Anything that ends with a question mark should be set aside for the moment and put forth to the hivemind so we can at least give input.
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Well, we're asking for in character information, albeit in the "here is our problem ... do you know anything relevant" format that works well for real people.

That said, the action plan is just another way to set aside questions for the hive-mind. If you come up with answers or improvements I'll change the plan.
 
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Jello_Raptor said:
@faflec: Don't have time to search but I thought it was mentioned in passing in one of the Mari interludes or the orgy incident.

Something about being good at dealing with poison.
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I can't find it.

Mitarashi's a poison user, and that's mentioned in several chapters. But even after having combed said chapters, I still can't find a reference to her being at all related to Orochimaru.
 
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