- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The intensive part is over at that point; any further donations are voluntary and don't actually take additional mental/spiritual effort on the part of the user.
Dragon Ball: After the End
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
So, why do the recent plans lack the training the namekian warriors option? Did I miss some discussion about it or do people just give self training more importance?
By the way, any way we can use our sight to gain insight about the prophesy we made? From what we know about them, Namek will fall if we don't accomplish it.
By the way, any way we can use our sight to gain insight about the prophesy we made? From what we know about them, Namek will fall if we don't accomplish it.
- Location
- United States
I don't hate training the Namekians, but we're going to need to fight someone of a similar or perhaps much higher power level in a champion-off, plus personal training will pay off more later on against Dandeer and whoever else. Since we chose to get aggressive hopefully the fight won't be too long. It would still be nice to reduce casualties, but it has a lot of competition in its category.
Prophecy is sadly not super clear. It could be that the scattered are just the adventurers, who are already being recalled, and the dormant might be just the dragon. Admittedly, it'd be weird to get a prophecy saying that disaster will happen unless things that are going to happen anyways prevent it. It would be worth trying to work out more about this, though, I'm just not sure how we'd go about doing so. Like you said, maybe sight?
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
Potential unlocking is considered a Social action; Outside World is what we convince Bassoon to do.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
I'm talking about non-omake bonuses; stuff like PL versus number-of-teammates versus skill level versus style level. Where do I go to find those numbers?
(Also, I've seen speculative future omakes get Compliant. If Snap doesn't pass that because Kakara is OOC, I'm fine with that, but "you picked the wrong subject matter" isn't very helpful feedback.)
This is an AP-budgeting plan vote. Hell Speedrun Interrupt is not that sort of plan, and so I think it has no realistic chance of winning against the presumed vote type. If you made it a choice at the end of the month, though - "try to gather a Spirit Saiyan and blitz through Hell, Y/N" - I think we, as a thread, could analyze it properly.
(Also, that way if it needs a Psychic AP, it could be drawn from next month's pool.)
Right then. I think these are my final revisions, if you can quote them in the unlock vote. (If you're up to it, I'd really appreciate your commentary, too.)
[ ] Plan Scout Camp
[ ] Continue Your Training (Sight AP #1)
[ ] Looking Abroad: NCE Invasion (Sight AP #2)
[ ] Improve a Skill: Team Fighting (Cause AP)
-[ ] Should be done first. If this training period still isn't enough to make Combat tick over, break for vote on what AP to reassign.
[ ] Go Beyond: Ki Sense (double down, Training AP #1 and #2)
[ ] Go Beyond: Multiform (Training AP #3)
[ ] Broken Precedent (Free AP #1 and #2)
[ ] General Training (Free AP #3 and #4)
[ ] Strange Sister (Free AP #5)
[ ] Potential Unlocking (Social AP #1)
[ ] Strengthen Host Bond (Social AP #2)
[ ] Instruction (double down, Outside World AP #1 and #2)
Summary: Preps for going scouting with Bassoon, and for training the Namekians to fight the army. I expect a lot of synergy between Team Fighting, General Training, and Instruction. Probably the best option if we're sticking things out with the Namekian Invasion Arc, although I'm sentimentally in favor of derailing it. Also hits most of the notes I'd want if we're going helldiving, but not all of them.
[ ] Plan Helldiver
[ ] Looking Abroad: NCE Invasion (Sight AP #1)
[ ] Piercing The Veil: Those Below (Sight AP #2)
[ ] Improve a Skill: Team Fighting (Training AP #1)
-[ ] Should be done first. If this training period still isn't enough to make Combat tick over, break for vote on what AP to reassign.
[ ] Go Beyond: Multiform (double down, Training AP #2 and #3)
[ ] Improve A Skill: Spirit Saiyan (double down, Cause AP, Free AP #1)
[ ] Broken Precedent (Free AP #2 and #3)
[ ] Potential Unlocking (Free AP #4)
[ ] Strange Sister (Free AP #5)
[ ] General Training (Social AP #1 and #2)
[ ] Instruction (double down, Outside World AP #1 and #2)
Summary: Focuses very hard on getting through Hell at the end of the month. Largely wraps things up on Namek, setting up a training program, getting them vision data and a Super Saiyan, and making Bassoon strong enough to survive without us. Actually finds out who our potential host downstairs would be. May let us get powerful fast enough to save Tamar and company's woefully outgunned behinds, which I'd really like.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Vote's open!
My QMing style has evolved since then.
If y'all want to try and do it, then a line in the winning plan devoting 1 Sight AP to projecting out of Bassoon to the Other World, with or without the assurance that you will be able to find your way back, will be more than sufficient.
A couple of proposed plans, featured. I'm off to bed, though, so no commentary, I'm afraid.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X] Plan Crash Training
-[X] Sight - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Invasion Fleet, especially the leader]
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
-[X] Training 3 AP (3+4)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
---[X] Do this before anything else
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
--[X] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
--[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[X] Spirit Bomb Experimentation (1 AP)
-[X] Social- 2 AP (2+1)
--[X] Strange Sister (1 AP) x2
--[X]Potential Unlocking (1 AP)
-[X] The Outside World - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Instruction (1 AP)
--[X] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause - 1 AP (1)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
Fixed Potential Unlocking placement.
-[X] Sight - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Invasion Fleet, especially the leader]
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
-[X] Training 3 AP (3+4)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
---[X] Do this before anything else
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
--[X] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
--[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[X] Spirit Bomb Experimentation (1 AP)
-[X] Social- 2 AP (2+1)
--[X] Strange Sister (1 AP) x2
--[X]Potential Unlocking (1 AP)
-[X] The Outside World - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Instruction (1 AP)
--[X] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause - 1 AP (1)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
Fixed Potential Unlocking placement.
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
This has most of what i want, so I'll approval vote or but will probably end up also making a plan later today.
[X] Plan Crash Training
-[X] Sight - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Invasion Fleet, especially the leader]
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
-[X] Training 3 AP (3+4)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
---[X] Do this before anything else
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
--[X] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
--[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[X] Spirit Bomb Experimentation (1 AP)
-[X] Social- 2 AP (2+1)
--[X] Strange Sister (1 AP) x2
--[X]Potential Unlocking (1 AP)
-[X] The Outside World - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Instruction (1 AP)
--[X] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause - 1 AP (1)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
[X] Plan Crash Training
-[X] Sight - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Invasion Fleet, especially the leader]
--[X] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
-[X] Training 3 AP (3+4)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
---[X] Do this before anything else
--[X] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
--[X] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
--[X] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[X] Spirit Bomb Experimentation (1 AP)
-[X] Social- 2 AP (2+1)
--[X] Strange Sister (1 AP) x2
--[X]Potential Unlocking (1 AP)
-[X] The Outside World - 2 AP (2)
--[X] Instruction (1 AP)
--[X] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[X] A Cause - 1 AP (1)
--[X] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
- Location
- United States
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Crash Training
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
[] Plan Preparations and Foundations
-[] The Sight (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) The Invasion Fleet Plans and Composition]: Information on the movement and plans of the invasion force. Goal is to understand how they're attacking and with who/what, with secondary focus on as much exact "when" as possible.
-[]Training (3 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]
--[] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
-[] Social (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Strange Sister x2 (2 AP)
-[] The Outside World (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--] Instruction (1 AP)
--[] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[] A Cause (1 AP)
--[] Use Sight (Past Sight) to view Tien, and other masters of Tien Style from Garenhuld, to get a better understanding of how the masters practice this style, to give ourselves more direction. Having our Style be stronger means we have a better chance of taking on Dandeer's thralls in a non-lethal manner, especially if we eventually unlock Perfect Multiform.
-[] Free AP (5 AP free to use anywhere)
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Dodonpa]
--[] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
--[] General Training (2 AP)
EDIT: fresh vote later in the thread.
-[] The Sight (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) The Invasion Fleet Plans and Composition]: Information on the movement and plans of the invasion force. Goal is to understand how they're attacking and with who/what, with secondary focus on as much exact "when" as possible.
-[]Training (3 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]
--[] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
-[] Social (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Strange Sister x2 (2 AP)
-[] The Outside World (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--] Instruction (1 AP)
--[] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[] A Cause (1 AP)
--[] Use Sight (Past Sight) to view Tien, and other masters of Tien Style from Garenhuld, to get a better understanding of how the masters practice this style, to give ourselves more direction. Having our Style be stronger means we have a better chance of taking on Dandeer's thralls in a non-lethal manner, especially if we eventually unlock Perfect Multiform.
-[] Free AP (5 AP free to use anywhere)
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Dodonpa]
--[] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
--[] General Training (2 AP)
EDIT: fresh vote later in the thread.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Worth noting that while Tien Style is inspired by Tien, it's probably quite different to the Crane Style he used. Of course, that might be a benefit in the long run, but it's worth keeping in mind.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
I did have that in mind when writing that item, hence why it's not looking at just Tien. But getting a different perspective on Tien and his style before it was a Style is intentional.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
I really don't want to be obnoxious about this, but I still don't know where to find the mechanics which aren't in the Rules post.
I really think you're underestimating how much the format will bias us against that. Also, there's stuff we should know before we try, such as what Potential Unlocking does and who our potential netherly host is.
I'd like the option to try it at the beginning of next month, just before Bassoon leaves, and that'll have an impact on when the last interrupt vote happens. Is that doable?
[X] Plan Scout Camp
[X] Continue Your Training (Sight AP #1)
[X] Looking Abroad: NCE Invasion (Sight AP #2)
[X] Improve a Skill: Team Fighting (Cause AP)
-[X] Should be done first. If this training period still isn't enough to make Combat tick over, break for vote on what AP to reassign.
[X] Go Beyond: Ki Sense (double down, Training AP #1 and #2)
[X] Go Beyond: Multiform (Training AP #3)
[X] Broken Precedent (Free AP #1 and #2)
[X] General Training (Free AP #3 and #4)
[X] Strange Sister (Free AP #5)
[X] Potential Unlocking (Social AP #1)
[X] Strengthen Host Bond (Social AP #2)
[X] Instruction (double down, Outside World AP #1 and #2)
Summary: High points are Ki Sense and General Training, with no Spirit Bomb training. The latter is a bit sad, but without a power source for it, it won't help us in space anyway. Probably the best option if we're sticking things out with the Namekian Invasion Arc.
[X] Plan Helldiver
[X] Looking Abroad: NCE Invasion (Sight AP #1)
[X] Piercing The Veil: Those Below (Sight AP #2)
[X] Improve a Skill: Team Fighting (Training AP #1)
-[X] Should be done first. If this training period still isn't enough to make Combat tick over, break for vote on what AP to reassign.
[X] Go Beyond: Multiform (double down, Training AP #2 and #3)
[X] Improve A Skill: Spirit Saiyan (double down, Cause AP, Free AP #1)
[X] Broken Precedent (Free AP #2 and #3)
[X] Potential Unlocking (Free AP #4)
[X] Strange Sister (Free AP #5)
[X] General Training (Social AP #1 and #2)
[X] Instruction (double down, Outside World AP #1 and #2)
[X] Special: Set aside 1AP from the very beginning of next month for gathering a Spirit Bomb and speeding through Hell.
Summary: Focuses very hard on getting through Hell at the beginning of next month. Largely wraps things up on Namek, setting up a training program, getting them vision data and a Super Saiyan, and making Bassoon strong enough to survive without us. Actually finds out who our potential host downstairs would be. May let us get powerful fast enough to save Tamar and company's woefully outgunned behinds, which I'd really like.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Style mechanics are in the Rules Screen. Power level modifiers are in the Rules Screen. Skills are in the Rules Screen. All of their modifiers are present, and noted explicitly, in the Rules Screen. Modifiers for number of teammates aren't, but that's because the advantage of fighting with teammates is an intangible; the person being outnumbered must respond to twice as many hostile actions as their opponents with half the people, in a two-to-one fight, and this scales with more participants. Gives the outnumbering side more initiative than they'd otherwise have.
You don't know what Potential Unlocking does yet. It unlocks potential. Take an option to find out what that means. You don't know who your potential netherly host is. Take an option to find out.
I'm not actually interested in making this course of action easier to take, particularly not for free in terms of AP cost when it will be a very intensive course of action. I've already stated, publicly, that doing so is a matter of investing a single AP in the Sight category. If the players find it valuable relative to other courses of action, they will vote in a plan that includes it.
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
We have a mechanics showcase and a rules page you can look at (sidestory and information), but I can lay it out here:
Power level gives a +20 bonus for every 10% stronger you are. So a FPSSj vs a non transformed FPSSJ is 200% more power is a +400 Bonus
Skill increments in units of 10; the skill ranks are Lethal, Calamitous, Incompetent, Poor, Unpromising, Unlearned, Competent, Talented, Exceptional, Elite, and Legendary. So Unlearned is +0, Competent is +10, lethal is -50.
Styles range from Incipient, Novice, Practitioner, Expert, Master. Each rank gives +10 (incipient is +0) , as long as you're using said style; you don't get a passive bonus for knowing Goku Style if you're using Vegeta Style. This Bonus doubles for the signature attacks (like Kikoho for Tien Style) but can be negative if you do an action penalized by the style, like non lethal combat for Freeza style.
Traits give bonuses to specific actions. These bonuses are small moderate and large, each scaling at +10.
Circumstance bonuses and maluses apply if you're doing something you have an advantage at or have ideal terrain or have gained an advantage due to a previous check, and stuff like that; Goku speedblitzing Freeza got him a +10 to checks against any surprises Freeza whips out, for instance.
So a combat roll is roll+PL+Skill+style+Traits+situational bonii, plus up to 15 in omake bonuses and the occasional situational modifier.
Let me know if anything is still unclear.
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- Location
- Italy
about the potential unlocking, i think it's fair that we don't know what it does precisely. I think it's enough that we know (and poptart pretty much confirmed it when he said we'll have to "adapt" to the changes) that it will DO something. I'd expect a rank up in some skills, as they "just clicked", though that's obviously just my theory.
Who knows, maybe if we're lucky we might get a second psychich power. Or for all we know it might help going beyond the "mental block" that blocks us from reaching ssj2. It probably depends at least in part on one or more dice rolls
now, let me see what are the main differences between the currently leading plans... I'll cross equal/similar enough options.
[] Plan Crash Training
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) [The Invasion Fleet, especially the leader]
--[] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
-[] Training 3 AP (3+4)
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
---[] Do this before anything else
--[] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Perfect Multiform]
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
--[] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[] Spirit Bomb Experimentation (1 AP)
--[] Strange Sister (1 AP) x2
--[]Potential Unlocking (1 AP)
--[] Instruction (1 AP)
--[] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[] A Cause - 1 AP (1)
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Ki Refinement]
[] Plan Preparations and Foundations
--[] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) The Invasion Fleet Plans and Composition]: Information on the movement and plans of the invasion force. Goal is to understand how they're attacking and with who/what, with secondary focus on as much exact "when" as possible.
-[]Training (3 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]
--[] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
-[] Social (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Strange Sister x2 (2 AP)
-[] The Outside World (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Instruction (1 AP)
--[] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[] A Cause (1 AP)
--[] Use Sight (Past Sight) to view Tien, and other masters of Tien Style from Garenhuld, to get a better understanding of how the masters practice this style, to give ourselves more direction. Having our Style be stronger means we have a better chance of taking on Dandeer's thralls in a non-lethal manner, especially if we eventually unlock Perfect Multiform.
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Dodonpa]
--[] General Training (2 AP)
so, 4 AP worth of differences
[] Plan Crash Training has 2 AP of ki refinement training, 1 of Spirit bomb experimentation and 1 of potential unlocking
[] Plan Preparations and Foundations has 1 ap of Dodonpa training, 1 AP of past sight about tien style,and 2 AP of "general training" (training the namekians.
hopes it helps, it certainly helped me decide. Makes things easier when you can compare plans in terms of what are the main differences.
[x] Plan Crash Training
to me the potential unlocking and spirit bomb experimentation are worth more. ki refinement is also nice.
I'd be fine exchanging the 2 "ki refinement AP for the general training though...
eh, why not, I'll make a plan for it too!
[x] PLAN BEST OF BOTH! (i hope)
-[] The Sight (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Continue Your Training (1 AP)
--[] Looking Abroad (1 AP) The Invasion Fleet Plans and Composition]: Information on the movement and plans of the invasion force. Goal is to understand how they're attacking and with who/what, with secondary focus on as much exact "when" as possible.
-[]Training (3 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] To Go Beyond (1 AP) [Multiform]
--[] Style Training (1 AP) [Tien Style]
--[] Improve a Skill (1 AP) [Team Fighting]
-[] Social (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Strange Sister x2 (2 AP)
-[] The Outside World (2 AP automatically Assigned)
--[] Instruction (1 AP)
--[] Historical Insights (1 AP)
-[] A Cause (1 AP)
--[] Spirit Bomb Experimentation (1 AP). The spirit bomb is your strongest weapon, a technique that would allow you to use the power of all the allies you'll make in the wide galaxy against any and all enemy. Especially Dandeer. She might block the people of Garenhuld from helping you, but that won't be enough to stop you. Enough power will make any confrontation trivial. You need to know the limits of this legendary technique though.
-[] Free AP (5 AP free to use anywhere)
--[] General Training (2 AP)
--[]Potential Unlocking (1 AP)
--[] Broken Precedent (2 AP)
Basically i took
from [] Plan Crash Training has 1 AP of Spirit bomb experimentation and 1 AP of potential unlocking.
from [] Plan Preparations and Foundations has 2 AP of "general training" (training the namekians).
we can do ki refinement and past sight about tien style next turn.
@Deathbybunnies @KnightDisciple how would you feel about PLAN BEST OF BOTH! (i hope) as a compromise?
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HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
That must have changed since I last saw it. Thank you.
Ah, so there aren't formal rules for it. Do you mind if I propose some mechanics?
I think a lot of my problem is that I didn't think of a "do this last" tag until very recently, so I was unreasonably worried that we'd have a plan with "throw out the rest of the plan halfway through" in it, or at least a plan that looked like such and would therefore not be voted for on common sense grounds. MfD may have been a bad experience that way.
So... can this write-in be valid?
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I don't think training the Namekian soldiers is a big deal, honestly. The champion-tier fight will happen in an instant, at which point it is likely the enemy will retreat, or take large penalties. Ki Refinement is just really, really good.
EDIT: I appreciate the thought, though.
Not sure if you meant to approval vote for my plan, and I'm not sure how strikethrough interacts with the tally.
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HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
With the mechanical clarification, I now agree with you. Like, to the point that I'm wondering why Apra could lose against Dazarel, if she was even twice his effective power level. Or why she didn't donate to Tabe and get him to blitz Dazarel, if she was so bad at Overcharge that she couldn't get that working.
Maybe the telekinetic interference was just that good at overcoming speed gaps, and she was in Oozaru mode where the speed gap wasn't as large? That's what I'm guessing, anyway.
Why aren't my plans in consideration? You do realize I'm the only one with a helldive plan, right?
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